The Trump Shutdown

[Q-baby!]

7 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

Well, reread my post.  I added flavor.

 

And you're an idiot to not understand that Trump can't open the government without a budget. Nothing has been given to him.  Can you sit down, shut up and stop blabbering.

 

And obama did far worse with his health Care bull#### that doesn't even relate to this.  So, again, go away.

Get back to work you mindless farmhand. 

[boyst]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

More meaningless posting.  Trump can open the government right now by allowing the budget bills that have been passed by both chambers to go forward.  That is the reality of the situation.  You have no idea what you're talking about. 

 

We will start with this.

 

Please, tell me how he does this.  Please tell me what Rachel Maddow and Your friends at CNN said he can do.

 

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Is it your position that any chief executive, regardless of party, can simply shut down government if he or she does not get his way?  You do understand the concept of co-equal branches of government?

Did Trump demand the shutdown?  No

Did Trump get a presentation of a bill to sign

?  No.

 

And yes, far better than you grandpa.

[GG]

6 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

More meaningless posting.  Trump can open the government right now by allowing the budget bills that have been passed by both chambers to go forward.  That is the reality of the situation.  You have no idea what you're talking about. 

 

Is it your position that any chief executive, regardless of party, can simply shut down government if he or she does not get his way?  You do understand the concept of co-equal branches of government?

 

Exactly which budget bills have been passed by both chambers and are ready for POTUS signature?

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

We will start with this.

 

Please, tell me how he does this.  Please tell me what Rachel Maddow and Your friends at CNN said he can do.

 

Did Trump demand the shutdown?  No

Did Trump get a presentation of a bill to sign

?  No.

 

And yes, far better than you grandpa.

My  friends at whatever.  Laughable. 

Did Trump demand the shutdown/  Are you serious?  Go back and watch the film of him in the White House with Pelosi and Schumer.  What did he say?  He'd be proud to own the shut down.  His words, said for all to hear.  Words matter.  I entered into this conversation because someone above said that language should be precise.  Well, the president was precise.  Now he owns it.  And to deny that is ridiculous. 

 

Did he get a bill to sign?  No, because despite the Senate having a bill that passed by 100-0 and the House as well, the president said he wouldn't sign it if it hit his desk.  So again it's on him.

 

Not to say the Democrats should negotiate.  I think those who work this problem everyday tell us that walls in specific areas would be helpful, and those should be built.  But there is one guy who can open government right now and he sits in the Oval office.

2 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Exactly which budget bills have been passed by both chambers and are ready for POTUS signature?

Back in December the Senate passed one.  The current House passed the same one.  If the Senate simply voted the same way they did a month of so ago you have it.  But the President in December said he wouldn't sign it.

 

You can try and deflect all you want, but only one person sat on live TV and claimed he'd be proud to shut the government down.  And now he wants to weasel out of taking that responsibility, and folks like you want to let him. 

[3rdnlng]

10 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Not sure where you're going with this.  But if words and precision matter, then the president owns the shut down.  Why?  Because that's what he said.

 

Now the Democrats could be more forthcoming in negotiations to be sure, but their stance is they will do so once the government is reopened.  Only one person has the power to reopen government right now, the chief executive.  And he won't do it.

Words matter.

 

Trump: Nancy, if I agree to this 30 continuing resolution will you agree to negotiate on a wall within those 30 days?

 

Nancy: No.

 

Let there be no doubt that those opposed to a wall really don't give one flyingshit about children being smuggled across our border and sold into sex slavery. Illegal aliens in most cases don't care if they get caught. They're fine with "catch & release". Child smugglers don't get paid if they are caught and therefore need to secretly cross the border with their soon-to-be slaves. Walls funnel all people crossing the border into well patrolled areas where we have the ability to discern their intentions.

 

We've been down this road before and don't want to get fooled again. Think of Lucy as the dems and Charlie Brown as the people that want the wall.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said:

Words matter.

 

Trump: Nancy, if I agree to this 30 continuing resolution will you agree to negotiate on a wall within those 30 days?

 

Nancy: No.

 

Let there be no doubt that those opposed to a wall really don't give one flyingshit about children being smuggled across our border and sold into sex slavery. Illegal aliens in most cases don't care if they get caught. They're fine with "catch & release". Child smugglers don't get paid if they are caught and therefore need to secretly cross the border with their soon-to-be slaves. Walls funnel all people crossing the border into well patrolled areas where we have the ability to discern their intentions.

 

We've been down this road before and don't want to get fooled again. Think of Lucy as the dems and Charlie Brown as the people that want the wall.

I believe I have indicated blame an be assigned to all sides here.  As I said above I am in favor of walls in specific areas where experts say it would matter.  But there is only one person who can open government right now, and it's not Pelosi.  It's the President.

 

If I were POTUS, I would reopen right now, negotiate like hell for 30 days, and the if the Dems refuse to negotiate fairly I'd declare the emergency (although I would also say it's hard to figure out why it's an emergency now when it wasn't for two years prior) and beat the Dems over the head with it when elections come up. 

 

The person who looks the best in his will be the person who the public thinks got the government reopened and checks flowing to the workers.  The Dems right now are in the cat bird's seat because they keep saying they want to reopen then negotiate.  The President's words that he'd be proud to shut down the government are coming back to haunt him.  Again, words matter.

 

 

[3rdnlng]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

My  friends at whatever.  Laughable. 

Did Trump demand the shutdown/  Are you serious?  Go back and watch the film of him in the White House with Pelosi and Schumer.  What did he say?  He'd be proud to own the shut down.  His words, said for all to hear.  Words matter.  I entered into this conversation because someone above said that language should be precise.  Well, the president was precise.  Now he owns it.  And to deny that is ridiculous. 

 

Did he get a bill to sign?  No, because despite the Senate having a bill that passed by 100-0 and the House as well, the president said he wouldn't sign it if it hit his desk.  So again it's on him.

 

Not to say the Democrats should negotiate.  I think those who work this problem everyday tell us that walls in specific areas would be helpful, and those should be built.  But there is one guy who can open government right now and he sits in the Oval office.

Back in December the Senate passed one.  The current House passed the same one.  If the Senate simply voted the same way they did a month of so ago you have it.  But the President in December said he wouldn't sign it.

 

You can try and deflect all you want, but only one person sat on live TV and claimed he'd be proud to shut the government down.  And now he wants to weasel out of taking that responsibility, and folks like you want to let him. 

Words matter and precision is important. He said he'd be proud to take the blame, not proud to shut the government down. He's fighting for a principle, not politically maneuvering like Pelosi & Schumer. Again, anyone that has half a brain and has the real need of a wall explained to them are complicit in child sex slavery if they don't want a wall. How does it feel?

[GG]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

My  friends at whatever.  Laughable. 

Did Trump demand the shutdown/  Are you serious?  Go back and watch the film of him in the White House with Pelosi and Schumer.  What did he say?  He'd be proud to own the shut down.  His words, said for all to hear.  Words matter.  I entered into this conversation because someone above said that language should be precise.  Well, the president was precise.  Now he owns it.  And to deny that is ridiculous. 

 

Did he get a bill to sign?  No, because despite the Senate having a bill that passed by 100-0 and the House as well, the president said he wouldn't sign it if it hit his desk.  So again it's on him.

 

Not to say the Democrats should negotiate.  I think those who work this problem everyday tell us that walls in specific areas would be helpful, and those should be built.  But there is one guy who can open government right now and he sits in the Oval office.

Back in December the Senate passed one.  The current House passed the same one.  If the Senate simply voted the same way they did a month of so ago you have it.  But the President in December said he wouldn't sign it.

 

You can try and deflect all you want, but only one person sat on live TV and claimed he'd be proud to shut the government down.  And now he wants to weasel out of taking that responsibility, and folks like you want to let him. 

 

So in summary, there wasn't any bill that passed both chambers that is ready for Trump's signature, and he's the only roadblock.

[oldmanfan]

Just now, 3rdnlng said:

Words matter and precision is important. He said he'd be proud to take the blame, not proud to shut the government down. He's fighting for a principle, not politically maneuvering like Pelosi & Schumer. Again, anyone that has half a brain and has the real need of a wall explained to them are complicit in child sex slavery if they don't want a wall. How does it feel?

He said he'd take the blame, then he is to blame.  Words matter.  And did I not just say above I am in favor of a wall in areas where experts say it's needed?   Save your childish responses for elsewhere.

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

So in summary, there wasn't any bill that passed both chambers that is ready for Trump's signature, and he's the only roadblock.

Yes, because he said he wouldn't sign it, so it wasn't presented to him.  You have a Senate majority leader who refuses to understand the constitutional responsibilities of the Senate.

[GG]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

He said he'd take the blame, then he is to blame.  Words matter.  And did I not just say above I am in favor of a wall in areas where experts say it's needed?   Save your childish responses for elsewhere.

Yes, because he said he wouldn't sign it, so it wasn't presented to him.  You have a Senate majority leader who refuses to understand the constitutional responsibilities of the Senate.

 

So in summary, there wasn't a bill for him to sign.

 

As someone said, words matter.

[KRC]

3 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

If I were POTUS, I would reopen right now, negotiate like hell for 30 days, and the if the Dems refuse to negotiate fairly I'd declare the emergency (although I would also say it's hard to figure out why it's an emergency now when it wasn't for two years prior) and beat the Dems over the head with it when elections come up.

 

 

 

Nancy has already stated that she refuses to negotiate, even if Trump reopens the government. So, explain again why he should open it?

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

So in summary, there wasn't a bill for him to sign.

 

As someone said, words matter.

So they should have put the bill in front of him, then not have him sign?  I could go along with that.  In fact that is exactly what should happen if the Congress was doing its job.  The House sent the same bill that the Senate approved a month ago.  The Senate should vote on it, pass it (unless they are so spineless that they change their votes within a month), put it on the President's desk.  If he vetoes then the Congress can decide if they override the veto and put people back to work.

 

That is how our government is supposed to work.  But, again, Trump is the only one right now who can reopen government.  If he indicates he'd sign that then it's over with today.  But, no, he's proud to shut it down.

3 minutes ago, KRC said:

 

Nancy has already stated that she refuses to negotiate, even if Trump reopens the government. So, explain again why he should open it?

Because there are 800,000 people not being paid, and because it is affecting our national security.  Open it, and if the Dems refuse to negotiate in good faith then you have a ready made political hammer to use. 

 

I just said above there is room to blame for both sides.  Try reading. 

[boyst]

18 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

My  friends at whatever.  Laughable. 

Did Trump demand the shutdown/  Are you serious?  Go back and watch the film of him in the White House with Pelosi and Schumer.  What did he say?  He'd be proud to own the shut down.  His words, said for all to hear.  Words matter.  I entered into this conversation because someone above said that language should be precise.  Well, the president was precise.  Now he owns it.  And to deny that is ridiculous. 

 

Did he get a bill to sign?  No, because despite the Senate having a bill that passed by 100-0 and the House as well, the president said he wouldn't sign it if it hit his desk.  So again it's on him.

 

Not to say the Democrats should negotiate.  I think those who work this problem everyday tell us that walls in specific areas would be helpful, and those should be built.  But there is one guy who can open government right now and he sits in the Oval office.

Back in December the Senate passed one.  The current House passed the same one.  If the Senate simply voted the same way they did a month of so ago you have it.  But the President in December said he wouldn't sign it.

 

You can try and deflect all you want, but only one person sat on live TV and claimed he'd be proud to shut the government down.  And now he wants to weasel out of taking that responsibility, and folks like you want to let him. 

I stopped reading after you said words matter and over action.

 

This explains a lot of why your side and buddies on the left are losing. The NPC. Words matter. Yep, calling yourself a tranny because you wanna tuck when you got a schlong works for you.  Calling yourself an American when you're against free speech works for you, oddly ironic because... Words over action and most importantly words over action.

 

Jesus, it's like you're so unhinged you have no critical thinking ability or insight to look introspectively. Feeble af, brah

[3rdnlng]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

He said he'd take the blame, then he is to blame.  Words matter.  And did I not just say above I am in favor of a wall in areas where experts say it's needed?   Save your childish responses for elsewhere.

You say you are for walls but blame Trump for fighting for them. It's Trump's fault for the shutdown but not Pelosi's fault for refusing to negotiate? You're crusading.

[GG]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

So they should have put the bill in front of him, then not have him sign?  I could go along with that.  In fact that is exactly what should happen if the Congress was doing its job.  The House sent the same bill that the Senate approved a month ago.  The Senate should vote on it, pass it (unless they are so spineless that they change their votes within a month), put it on the President's desk.  If he vetoes then the Congress can decide if they override the veto and put people back to work.

 

That is how our government is supposed to work.  But, again, Trump is the only one right now who can reopen government.  If he indicates he'd sign that then it's over with today.  But, no, he's proud to shut it down.

 

Let's try this again. 

 

You explicitly said that the shutdown is responsibility of one man who's refused to sign "bills" that were passed by both chambers.   Yet, there was no bill that's crossed his desk. 

 

Wouldn't that also make other people responsible?

[B-Man]

Lost in the twin hoaxes of Buzzfeed and Big Chief Lie A Lot is the collapse of the House Dems plan to resist funding a border wall.

 

Pelosi doesn’t have the votes to win her opposition to border security.

I’m guessing the Trump plan could garner as much as 30 democrats, if presented, as is.

 

Steny Hoyer’s appearance on Cavuto signaled that the moderates are getting ready to jump ship.

Throw in Colin PetersonD-MN, and Elaine LuriaD-VA calls for a vote and the ‘resistance’ in the democrat house seems to be growing.

 

In theory she can block the vote, but even the Dems advising her to submit her own plan know she lacks popular support to produce one. The longer she goes without allowing efforts at a deal, the faster her power erodes. Pelosi is hoping Schumer can buy her time, but that time is just bleeding her support, further.

 

 

[KRC]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

Let's try this again. 

 

You explicitly said that the shutdown is responsibility of one man who's refused to sign "bills" that were passed by both chambers.   Yet, there was no bill that's crossed his desk. 

 

Wouldn't that also make other people responsible?

 

No. You don't understand. Trump is the only person who can reopen the government. Except for Congress' ability to reopen the government. But it is Trump that is the only person that can reopen the government.

 

Or something like that.

 

I have been told that I need to try reading. Maybe that will help me understand the abortion of a point that he is trying to make.

[3rdnlng]

Furthermore, all of you that have claimed that the Senate passed some bill 100-0 are fullofshit and are either stupid as hell or just flat out disingenuous. It was a voice vote about a cr.

[oldmanfan]

8 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

You say you are for walls but blame Trump for fighting for them. It's Trump's fault for the shutdown but not Pelosi's fault for refusing to negotiate? You're crusading.

 

8 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Let's try this again. 

 

You explicitly said that the shutdown is responsibility of one man who's refused to sign "bills" that were passed by both chambers.   Yet, there was no bill that's crossed his desk. 

 

Wouldn't that also make other people responsible?

Trump is the only person who can reopen government.  All he has to do is agree to sign the bill the House sent to the senate, the one that the Senate agreed to by a vote of 100-0 in December.  If he says he'd sign it McConnell would bring it to the floor right now.  Don't be disingenouous.

11 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

I stopped reading after you said words matter and over action.

 

This explains a lot of why your side and buddies on the left are losing. The NPC. Words matter. Yep, calling yourself a tranny because you wanna tuck when you got a schlong works for you.  Calling yourself an American when you're against free speech works for you, oddly ironic because... Words over action and most importantly words over action.

 

Jesus, it's like you're so unhinged you have no critical thinking ability or insight to look introspectively. Feeble af, brah

Several others here make good points and are worth having a discussion with.  You, on the other hand, bring up bizarre references to transsexuals and such make it clear you have no sense, since that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

6 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Furthermore, all of you that have claimed that the Senate passed some bill 100-0 are fullofshit and are either stupid as hell or just flat out disingenuous. It was a voice vote about a cr.

Then bring it up for an actual vote.  How about the Senate actually do its job.

12 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

You say you are for walls but blame Trump for fighting for them. It's Trump's fault for the shutdown but not Pelosi's fault for refusing to negotiate? You're crusading.

I am blaming Trump for shutting down government over it.  Not blaming exactly, since he is the one who said he'd be proud to do so.  Just that he needs to own it.

[oldmanfan]

10 minutes ago, B-Man said:

Lost in the twin hoaxes of Buzzfeed and Big Chief Lie A Lot is the collapse of the House Dems plan to resist funding a border wall.

 

Pelosi doesn’t have the votes to win her opposition to border security.

I’m guessing the Trump plan could garner as much as 30 democrats, if presented, as is.

 

Steny Hoyer’s appearance on Cavuto signaled that the moderates are getting ready to jump ship.

Throw in Colin PetersonD-MN, and Elaine LuriaD-VA calls for a vote and the ‘resistance’ in the democrat house seems to be growing.

 

In theory she can block the vote, but even the Dems advising her to submit her own plan know she lacks popular support to produce one. The longer she goes without allowing efforts at a deal, the faster her power erodes. Pelosi is hoping Schumer can buy her time, but that time is just bleeding her support, further.

 

 

If Trump says he will sign the bill sent from the House to the Senate today government opens today.  That simple.