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The Trump Shutdown


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33 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

 

A wall, in my opinion, is the equivalent of a bandaid to any immigration problem.  It is 2019, people will enter into the country in other ways (ignoring the fact that they will likely find a way to get across a wall-guarded border).  The vast majority of illegal immigrants I have come across came over in a plane.  Again, I would rather direct the money in other ways to address the border.  

 

 

 

I was just listing off random things to explain what I meant by opposite stance than trump on immigration (because of your immature comment about what opposite meant as if you didn't know what I was referring to...).  I am not relating these to the shutdown.  And I believe in those things because I believe it is a human right to be able to be safe and live in a different country, regardless of whether or not it benefits Americans (immigration is perhaps my most leftist view).  And I do think that those things benefit Americans by introducing new cultures and diversity.  But again, I value people more than americans.  

 

 

Trump, at least in Saturday's presentation, presented ideas to address several areas of illegal immigration abuse.   A barrier is simply a component.

 

As for your human rights comment, you think it's OK for anyone that's not satisfied with their situation in their country to pick and choose another country of their choice and that country should welcome them with open arms?  Permanent status for those that relocated in their country of choice?  Any limits on numbers and participation in government assistance? 

Edited by keepthefaith
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4 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

Trump, at least in Saturday's presentation, presented ideas to address several areas of illegal immigration abuse.   A barrier is simply a component.

 

As for your human rights comment, you think it's OK for anyone that's not satisfied with their situation in their country to pick and choose another country of their choice and that country should welcome them with open arms?  Permanent status for those that relocated in their country of choice?  Any limits on numbers and participation in government assistance? 

 

Yes, with the obvious caveat of a process that includes vetting limitations.  No limits on numbers or participation in government assistance, though I would love to have our government-assistance system go through an overhaul.  In other words, if someone from Guatemala wants to move to this country, there should be a reasonable path to get them here as permanent residents and eventually citizens.  And when they are here, we should do our best to help them.  

 

I understand the logistics issues, but that's my belief on ideal immigration.  

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2 minutes ago, BigMcD said:

No thanks! I would bet KGB is available.

I know eh! ***** losers! 

 

Just because you don't agree with someone politically doesn't make them losers.

 

That advice was free. The next piece of advice will cost you. ?

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9 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

 

Yes, with the obvious caveat of a process that includes vetting limitations.  No limits on numbers or participation in government assistance, though I would love to have our government-assistance system go through an overhaul.  In other words, if someone from Guatemala wants to move to this country, there should be a reasonable path to get them here as permanent residents and eventually citizens.  And when they are here, we should do our best to help them.  

 

So if the U.S. granted citizenship to illegal immigrants here (20+ million) and then hung the vacancy sign on the front door, what do you think would be the impact to the cost of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid as a result of these new citizens and their offspring over the next 75 years or 1 lifetime? 

 

Right now, as a country we are going to have to severely cut benefits for existing Americans or crank up taxes bigly in order to fund these programs for the current population of citizens. 

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52 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

 

I wouldn't argue against the fact that some walls and physical barriers would be effective.  But what is it, 6 billion dollars worth?  That is sophomoric and I would put the money towards other immigration-related expenses. 

 

 

As to your second sentence, whatever you say (I don't think you are trying to have a conversation with that). I am just saying that my immigration stance would be considered opposite of trump.  I believe in a vast expansion of asylum immigration, pro-DACA, and believe in a reasonable and easily obtainable path towards legal immigration.  

You are not alone in this suggestion.  We 

 

42 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

 

A wall, in my opinion, is the equivalent of a bandaid to any immigration problem.  It is 2019, people will enter into the country in other ways (ignoring the fact that they will likely find a way to get across a wall-guarded border).  The vast majority of illegal immigrants I have come across came over in a plane.  Again, I would rather direct the money in other ways to address the border.  

 

 

 

I was just listing off random things to explain what I meant by opposite stance than trump on immigration (because of your immature comment about what opposite meant as if you didn't know what I was referring to...).  I am not relating these to the shutdown.  And I believe in those things because I believe it is a human right to be able to be safe and live in a different country, regardless of whether or not it benefits Americans (immigration is perhaps my most leftist view).  And I do think that those things benefit Americans by introducing new cultures and diversity.  But again, I value people more than americans.  

 

Would you be willing to contribute more of your income/savings/retirment to solve the problem in a manner that is consistent with your values? And with that in mind, would you contribute a higher percentage knowing it was voluntary and others could opt out? 

 

Lets say a plan was put forth whereby like minded people could arbitrarily contribute an extra 10%, and forgo the tax deferred element on 401k or IRA contributions. 

 

Just wondering. 

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17 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

So if the U.S. granted citizenship to illegal immigrants here and then hung the vacancy sign on the front door, what do you think would be the impact to the cost of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid as a result of these new citizens and their offspring over the next 75 years or 1 lifetime? 

 

Right now, as a country we are going to have to severely cut benefits for existing Americans or crank up taxes bigly in order to fund these programs for the current population of citizens. 

 

Haha, well aren't you then asking for my views on taxes, health care, and government benefits?  But yea, I would like all of those things to be used to help everyone who needs it.

 

I don't want to go down that route, but to my original point, the thought of a wall being a significant-enough aid to spend 6 billion dollars on or shutdown the government over makes me chuckle.  Fortunately, neither the shutdown nor immigration effect me personally.  

Edited by Crayola64
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4 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

 

So if the U.S. granted citizenship to illegal immigrants here (20+ million) and then hung the vacancy sign on the front door, what do you think would be the impact to the cost of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid as a result of these new citizens and their offspring over the next 75 years or 1 lifetime? 

 

Right now, as a country we are going to have to severely cut benefits for existing Americans or crank up taxes bigly in order to fund these programs for the current population of citizens. 

 

Actually, since immigrants are more likely to be of working age, there's likely to be a net benefit to Social Security and Medicare if you increase legal immigration.

 

However, Medicaid's a different problem altogether.

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Just now, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

Would you be willing to contribute more of your income/savings/retirment to solve the problem in a manner that is consistent with your values? And with that in mind, would you contribute a higher percentage knowing it was voluntary and others could opt out? 

 

Lets say a plan was put forth whereby like minded people could arbitrarily contribute an extra 10%, and forgo the tax deferred element on 401k or IRA contributions. 

 

Just wondering. 

5

 

Honestly, no because a plan based on voluntary contributions likely wouldn't make any sense relative to alternatives 

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1 minute ago, Crayola64 said:

 

Honestly, no because a plan based on voluntary contributions likely wouldn't make any sense relative to alternatives 

I was wondering about contrbutions in addition to the alternatives.  Reading your earlier post, you implied the shutdown impacts you personally, but indicated "fortunately". Was that a typo, or is it a good time to be furloughed? 

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