Deranged Rhino Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 minute ago, ExiledInIllinois said: Like I said... Let Trump and the Basket of Deplorable think they are getting something. They're already doing it. And have been since October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 https://www.npr.org/2019/01/11/684037990/border-patrol-makes-its-case-for-an-expanded-border-barrier?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 58 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: Dude, they are in those neighborhoods every day doing landscaping, picking up the trash, cleaning pools, putting roofs on houses..working at Trump properties...also at the OTB i go to quite frequently right chere in Richmond Virgin-i-a!!!! You really want to piss those folks off, round up the illegals every morning coming into their neighborhoods...and that goes for both sides I don't get this argument when put in the context of the gun reform argument. Can the right really have it both ways? You need to get your sarcasm meter repaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 21 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: You need to get your sarcasm meter repaired. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Been happening since October. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said: Dude, they are in those neighborhoods every day doing landscaping, picking up the trash, cleaning pools, putting roofs on houses..working at Trump properties...also at the OTB i go to quite frequently right chere in Richmond Virgin-i-a!!!! You really want to piss those folks off, round up the illegals every morning coming into their neighborhoods...and that goes for both sides If you really want to piss them off, though, enforce immigration and labor laws so illegals are no longer an exploitable work force. It's not a "But who'll do my landscaping?" argument. It's a "But who'll do my landscaping for $3 an hour?" argument. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 2 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: This is a great thread for anyone who says "a wall is a waste of money" or "the US doesn't have the money". The United States government funds a LOT of stupid stuff (mostly as payback for political donations). A wall is hardly stupid. Put that money towards a better use; build that wall, Mr. President! 1 Hey...we found something we agree on!!! mark the occasion!?! Does anyone not fins it strange everyone keeps saying " the pentagon has $20B just laying around, it can used to build the wall!! 1 minute ago, DC Tom said: If you really want to piss them off, though, enforce immigration and labor laws so illegals are no longer an exploitable work force. It's not a "But who'll do my landscaping?" argument. It's a "But who'll do my landscaping for $3 an hour?" argument. now your talking!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 27 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: ???? LA was being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 16 hours ago, Koko78 said: Uh, you do realize that physical barriers aren't actually on the exact border, right? I understand that but half a mile away from a wall on the Mexico side people can leave ladders, carpets, and ropes to use to smuggle people over a wall. A wall to me would cost way more than 5 billion esp if they wanted a steel and concrete barrier (I think the original 20 billion is probably more in the ball park) and it wouldn't be as effective as people seem to think. I am not dogmatic about a wall either. If there are areas that need fencing for some tactical perspective I wouldn't be opposed to it, but a wall that covers a vast amount of the border just doesn't seem effective nor worth the massive costs, when other cheaper more effective options are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Just now, billsfan89 said: I understand that but half a mile away from a wall on the Mexico side people can leave ladders, carpets, and ropes to use to smuggle people over a wall. A wall to me would cost way more than 5 billion esp if they wanted a steel and concrete barrier (I think the original 20 billion is probably more in the ball park) and it wouldn't be as effective as people seem to think. I am not dogmatic about a wall either. If there are areas that need fencing for some tactical perspective I wouldn't be opposed to it, but a wall that covers a vast amount of the border just doesn't seem effective nor worth the massive costs, when other cheaper more effective options are available. No one is requesting such a wall. So you're good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 17 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: The bolded is not an accurate statement, and is influencing the rest of your train of thought (in this post). The wall is very effective at deterrence and driving the flow of smugglers/traffickers towards easier to patrol/cover areas. It's a big border, takes a long time to go from station to station in some of the most heavily trafficked areas. A wall strategically placed can cut the response time down to minutes rather than hours. If there's no wall, and you attempt to do the same with just manpower and technology, that can go away and those lanes will open right back up. That's why you need all three. Nothing is perfect, but it's not that easy. Cutting through steel will create noise/sparks that can be seen (and responded to) quite easily. Ropes/ladders are ineffective against certain designs. Digging tunnels, not to mention keeping them open, takes time and with cameras / drone coverage on the border can be spotted and dealt with. The tactical advantages to a wall are described above and come not from my imagination but from people who actually do the work on the ground. This is not accurate. If you cut the budget, and lose the man power and technology and there's no wall there it becomes unprotected/vulnerable. The wall stays and helps a strained CBP/DHS deal with the crisis better than they're able to today. ... They absolutely have walls. And gates. People seeking Asylum walk into various ports of entry. They don''t sneak across them. By the very nature of asylum you are supposed to declare yourself to the border agents. So a wall doesn't solve that issue. I also disagree that a wall has a level of effectiveness if the manpower behind it is cut. I don't doubt that a wall might have some level of effectiveness but is that level of effectiveness enough? To put up a massive concrete and steel wall on the southern border is probably going to cost 20 billion or more. The miles and miles of steel and concrete alone blow past the 5 billion mark. If you estimate the cost of one border patrol agent to be roughly 100k per year (Salary, benifits, office space, training, equipment and other costs) you could hire 10,000 additional border patrol agents for 10 years at half the cost a wall would cost. You could take the other half and invest in other technology needs. I am not dogmatic about the issue, I can see the need for limited fencing in more remote areas (although I would have to see what evidence for effectiveness there is) but to construct this wall to only be a very expensive mild security measure seems like an expensive government boondoggle that won't come close to accomplishing its goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: I understand that but half a mile away from a wall on the Mexico side people can leave ladders, carpets, and ropes to use to smuggle people over a wall. A wall to me would cost way more than 5 billion esp if they wanted a steel and concrete barrier (I think the original 20 billion is probably more in the ball park) and it wouldn't be as effective as people seem to think. I am not dogmatic about a wall either. If there are areas that need fencing for some tactical perspective I wouldn't be opposed to it, but a wall that covers a vast amount of the border just doesn't seem effective nor worth the massive costs, when other cheaper more effective options are available. ladders may work from the side your coming from, but then what? drop 30' to the ground? seems like you are asking for trouble not to mention dropping kids from that height might not be the best advice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 minute ago, billsfan89 said: People seeking Asylum walk into various ports of entry. They don''t sneak across them. By the very nature of asylum you are supposed to declare yourself to the border agents. So a wall doesn't solve that issue. You said ports of entry don't have walls. That was completely incorrect. They have lots of walls, and gates, and defensive barriers because it's a border crossing. No one is against legally claiming asylum. The wall has nothing to do with that subject. It has to do with stemming the flow of trafficking and smuggling much more than it does any other issue. 2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: I also disagree that a wall has a level of effectiveness if the manpower behind it is cut. I don't doubt that a wall might have some level of effectiveness but is that level of effectiveness enough? So... you admit a wall is effective but your concern is it's not effective enough so your solution is to not even bother trying to stem the flow of traffickers and drugs through the southern border, all the while ignoring the people on the ground who are charged with defending our border and who to a man disagree with the position that a wall isn't effective "enough". That seems like you're so dug into your partisan talking points you're unwilling to take a dispassionate view of the situation and reassess what you know about it. 4 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: To put up a massive concrete and steel wall on the southern border is probably going to cost 20 billion or more. The miles and miles of steel and concrete alone blow past the 5 billion mark. If you estimate the cost of one border patrol agent to be roughly 100k per year (Salary, benifits, office space, training, equipment and other costs) you could hire 10,000 additional border patrol agents for 10 years at half the cost a wall would cost. You could take the other half and invest in other technology needs. We've covered this. Trump isn't just asking for a wall. He's asking for a wall (in certain spots) and an increase in men and technology. We need all three, not just one or two of the three to make any meaningful dent on the problem. 5 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: I am not dogmatic about the issue, I can see the need for limited fencing in more remote areas (although I would have to see what evidence for effectiveness there is) but to construct this wall to only be a very expensive mild security measure seems like an expensive government boondoggle that won't come close to accomplishing its goals. "Mild"... you keep adding qualifier that are devoid of fact or context to make it sound better in your own head. You should take another look at this issue without the politics. Talk to actual border patrol agents or ICE officers. They're easy enough to contact if you take it into your own hands. Give them a call. Talk to them first hand. You'll be amazed at what you hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said: Been happening since October. You love Trump Love, Love! ? 7 minutes ago, Foxx said: ladders may work from the side your coming from, but then what? drop 30' to the ground? seems like you are asking for trouble not to mention dropping kids from that height might not be the best advice. They could just cut through the stupid wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: You love Trump Love, Love! ? Reporting factual information that the media doesn't cover does not mean I love, love Trump. It means I love, love you and everyone here and want to share information that is otherwise being withheld for purely partisan (or more nefarious) reasons. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 4 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Reporting factual information that the media doesn't cover does not mean I love, love Trump. It means I love, love you and everyone here and want to share information that is otherwise being withheld for purely partisan (or more nefarious) reasons. See, you do love him. You even say his tweets are factual information. That's a serious stretch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 Just now, Tiberius said: See, you do love him. You even say his tweets are factual information. That's a serious stretch! It's a fact, as I've been saying for months, that they've been building new wall and refurbishing old stretches since October. That's not Trump making it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 11, 2019 Share Posted January 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: It's a fact, as I've been saying for months, that they've been building new wall and refurbishing old stretches since October. That's not Trump making it up. Ok! But the emergency stuff is a lie. Totally made up emergency. No emergency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts