njbuff Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said: ********************************** Worth the 59 seconds. https://media.8ch.net/file_store/813dd1a7ead14b9c19b27ef3a7cacb224eaf928edfe74e4f2f78040d3c45599b.mp4 Delivered by Goonies and Die Hard star Robert Davi I guess he now can forget about every being in a movie again. He just killed his career as these leftist Hollywood scumbags will condemn him. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanNC Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Mark Morgan, former border patrol chief under Obama. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TakeYouToTasker Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, billsfan89 said: Unless I am mistaken, I thought you said i(n response to another poster) that a national sales tax would be able to fully fund our current levels of government. I don't think it would since while the current tax code has all sorts of exemptions for rich people to take advantage of it still taxes them on some of their income (Even Mitt Romney paid about 12.5% of his capital gains income.) So my argument is that a national sales tax would not be able to replace the revenue lost from payroll taxes, corporate taxes, and personal income taxes. You said that it would be to another poster and my claim was that it simply wouldn't as the numbers don't add up. I reject your argument as it works with the assumption that our government should be funded to or beyond current levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The wall "is just politics" for everyone, amirite? Trump speaking on trafficking and border security now: https://www.pscp.tv/w/1djGXOZkBEjKZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: None of those facts dispute my points. Which are echoed by the men and women who patrol the border and their supervisors. And, gasp, were also backed by Obama's own administration officials. When you can't argue facts, you change the subject or run back to your feelz. It's sad to see you so propagandized that you can't even break free from the narrative you're being fed. The border wall is about stopping human trafficking. Walls are proven to work and a wall is asked for by nearly every single agent and officer who risk their lives patrolling the border. These are indisputable facts. I know they're indisputable because for multiple posts now you've ignored them while trying to desperately reframe your argument into something else. It's sad. Cool. You want specific evidence that the Wall's benefit does not clearly equal a stop to human trafficking? https://www.inquisitr.com/5243438/fact-checking-a-white-house-claim-that-a-wall-could-stop-drugs-human-trafficking/ “Because human trafficking is a hidden crime and victims rarely come forward to seek help because of language barriers, fear of the traffickers, and/or fear of law enforcement, there are often challenges in isolating metrics,” said Justine Whelan, a spokeswoman with the Department of Homeland Security. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/will-trump-s-border-wall-prevent-human-trafficking-experts-aren-n751466 "That is a question I’ve been wrestling with," Dottie Laster, executive director of the Heidi Search Center in San Antonio, Texas, and a human trafficking expert, told NBC News. "I’ve been thinking about it daily, and the truth is I don’t know if it will curb it or not." https://www.cbsnews.com/news/border-patrol-officers-us-mexico-border-wall/ Here's a nice little bit from a border agent For agents like Agosttini, the question of how high a wall is, is almost irrelevant. “Do you think a wall is gonna stop them from coming in? The fact that you have a house, would that stop a burglar from coming in?” said Agosttini. “I used to live about 30 feet from the fence, OK? I’ve been seeing these things for 30 years.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Cool. You want specific evidence that the Wall's benefit does not clearly equal a stop to human trafficking? https://www.inquisitr.com/5243438/fact-checking-a-white-house-claim-that-a-wall-could-stop-drugs-human-trafficking/ That's a nonsense point devoid of proper context. Walls are highly effective at stemming the tide towards better covered areas. This is the goal, and the result 99% of the time. How do I know? I talk to actual border agents. You should try it, you'll be amazed at what you learn from people who actually have to do the work. 1 minute ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/will-trump-s-border-wall-prevent-human-trafficking-experts-aren-n751466 This makes my case, not yours. "I don't know if it'll help" is a cop out. Not an answer and not a fact. 2 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/border-patrol-officers-us-mexico-border-wall/ Here's a nice little bit from a border agent Moving the goal posts, not dealing with facts or the topic. No one is arguing a wall will STOP the crime from happening. The argument is it will stem the tide and flow towards areas with better/easier coverage which will decrease supply and increase arrests while saving lives. 3 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Thank you for proving, again, you do not operate on facts, but on manufactured talking points masked in emotions. Have you spoken personally with CBP/DHS/ICE agents? Have you called them yourself to ask their opinions? I doubt it. But you should... you'll be amazed at what you can learn when you stop going by feelz and start going by facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said: I wish he would just declare the emergency already. Everyone can claim a victory. The court battles can start. And we can move on from this failure of leadership. Tiberius you liked my comment but I suspect we’re only in partial agreement about whose leadership failure is on display. Edited January 10, 2019 by BeginnersMind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 15 minutes ago, njbuff said: It's a joke Sparky. Point being, this whole argument is about ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. I welcome ALL LEGAL immigrants My mother-in-law is a LEGAL immigrant who went thru the process the right way and is now a proud American, which we are proud to have. This whole illegal/short cut way of these immigrants doing what they are doing at the border pisses her off to no end......... and she is also a staunch Democrat. The wall will do nothing to stop people who are applying for asylum. They have legal standing to do that. Trump lost that battle in the courts 2 minutes ago, BeginnersMind said: Tiberius you liked my comment but I suspect we’re only in partial agreement about whose leadership failure is on display. Probably! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, Tiberius said: The wall will do nothing to stop people who are applying for asylum. They have legal standing to do that. Trump lost that battle in the courts Applying for asylum is the process. Nothing illegal about it, no one - not Trump - is arguing for that to be stopped, only for it to be enforced. *************** 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Applying for asylum is the process. Nothing illegal about it, no one - not Trump - is arguing for that to be stopped, only for it to be enforced. *************** Supreme Court upholds block on Trump's asylum ban - CNNPolitics https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/21/politics/supreme-court...trumps-asylum.../index.html Dec 22, 2018 - The Supreme Court on Friday upheld a federal judge's order blocking the Trumpadministration's new asylum restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxx Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, Tiberius said: The wall will do nothing to stop people who are applying for asylum. They have legal standing to do that. Trump lost that battle in the courts the caveat to this is that they are to be a person who is unable or unwilling to return to his or her home country, and cannot obtain protection in that country, due to past persecution or a well-founded fear of being persecuted in the future “on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.” only upon that basis do they have standing. if it cannot be proven, they have no standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 14 hours ago, LABillzFan said: So in conclusion, Trump is caving to the right wing pundits by trying to deliver his #1 campaign promise. Got it. I swear, some of you should learn to use the draft folder for your thoughts. I don't think Trump ever had any intention of actually building a wall. I think it was a punch line and someone people could associate with his "success" as a builder to help get him elected. I think it was a gimmick that he knew was never practical, and a punch line that separated him from all his Republican opponents in the primaries. Trump was fine folding on it a month ago, because he was never serious about getting it done. Then the right wing pundits went out in masse and said they could not support him going forward if he signed it, and got his base all riled up that if he couldn't deliver a wall he was a phony just like all the career politicians he constantly rails against. With the threat of fracturing base, which would result in a landslide election loss in two years, he dug in and made a political move to hold out for the wall even though every fact out there says it will have a minimal effect on reducing drugs or illegal immigration, and he's only getting about 20% of the money required to built it. If Trump was serious about building a wall, they would have started construction on it already. It's never been a priority of his, up until now when he risked losing his base. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, Tiberius said: Supreme Court upholds block on Trump's asylum ban - CNNPolitics https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/21/politics/supreme-court...trumps-asylum.../index.html Dec 22, 2018 - The Supreme Court on Friday upheld a federal judge's order blocking the Trumpadministration's new asylum restrictions. Read what the case was. It wasn't to bring an end to asylum permanently, it was to enforce it properly. No serious poster here has a problem with legal immigration or immigration in general. The issue is with unchecked, illegal immigration for some - for others it's the scourge of human trafficking and smuggling that comes along with an unsecured southern border. Immigrants are wonderful, hardworking people by and large. And most of the legal immigrants hate open borders and illegal immigration because it's cheating the process and what they themselves endured to become legal citizens. Just now, jrober38 said: I don't think Trump ever had any intention of actually building a wall. I think it was a punch line and someone people could associate with his "success" as a builder to help get him elected. I think it was a gimmick that he knew was never practical, and a punch line that separated him from all his Republican opponents in the primaries. Trump was fine folding on it a month ago, because he was never serious about getting it done. Then the right wing pundits went out in masse and said they could not support him going forward if he signed it, and got his base all riled up that if he couldn't deliver a wall he was a phony just like all the career politicians he constantly rails against. With the threat of fracturing base, which would result in a landslide election loss in two years, he dug in and made a political move to hold out for the wall even though every fact out there says it will have a minimal effect on reducing drugs or illegal immigration, and he's only getting about 20% of the money required to built it. If Trump was serious about building a wall, they would have started construction on it already. It's never been a priority of his, up until now when he risked losing his base. The evidence and policies he's passed while in office disagrees with this assessment. It's been a central cause (for reasons other than you're stating) since day one of his campaign, let alone his administration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 11 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Taken care of already. Untill polls show more people blame Democrats for the shutdown than Trump they have no reason to compromise. Blown opportunity to quell federal workers fears who live paycheck to paycheck. It was funny though. I'm guessing there will be many gofundme pages on both sides. It points to factions of both parties having a fervor portion of their base that demands zero compromise with the other side and they elect politicians to do just that. You saw it with the Repubicans in '11 and the Democrats in '17. I don't know why he waited until Democrats took over the House. It would be easier to peel away Democratic Senators if they knew the GOP controlled House would approve whatever Trump wanted. Especially all the Democratic Senators up for reelection in Trump won states. I heard somewhere that current Republican policy is shaped by the farthest right portion of the party, which is about 6% of the electorate, and democratic policy is shaped by the farthest left, which is about 8% of the electorate. The result is that the other 86% of Americans who are eligible to vote are in the "middle", stuck supporting two parties whose extreme views are shaped by a tiny portion of the total population. The two party system is a very broken system. It's unbelievable to me that there isn't a 3rd, "Moderate Party" out there who will run on a basic platform of controlling economic spending, and putting the social issues that divide the country to bed. Like 80% of Americans would support that type of platform, yet for some reason it doesn't exist. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Read what the case was. It wasn't to bring an end to asylum permanently, it was to enforce it properly. No serious poster here has a problem with legal immigration or immigration in general. The issue is with unchecked, illegal immigration for some - for others it's the scourge of human trafficking and smuggling that comes along with an unsecured southern border. Immigrants are wonderful, hardworking people by and large. And most of the legal immigrants hate open borders and illegal immigration because it's cheating the process and what they themselves endured to become legal citizens. I know about the case and I know Trump's rhetoric "Rapists, murderers, drugs, invasion, disease etc." He is scapegoating the immigrants and screwing up the system any way he can. The second part is correct. Immigrants are great. But you have no idea what they think so stop putting words in their mouths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swill Merchant Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: It's not though. Just think it through. How can you say it's purely political when there's actual value to the wall? The facts, and experts, all agree that a wall is a necessary competent (along with technology and increased funding for manpower) to help curb human trafficking and smuggling. Even the former Obama head of DHS agrees. Those people aren't politicians, they don't care a lick about politics. They're trying to do their job and keep the country safe. A wall is needed in certain sections and will save lives. He's projecting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Read what the case was. It wasn't to bring an end to asylum permanently, it was to enforce it properly. No serious poster here has a problem with legal immigration or immigration in general. The issue is with unchecked, illegal immigration for some - for others it's the scourge of human trafficking and smuggling that comes along with an unsecured southern border. Immigrants are wonderful, hardworking people by and large. And most of the legal immigrants hate open borders and illegal immigration because it's cheating the process and what they themselves endured to become legal citizens. The evidence and policies he's passed while in office disagrees with this assessment. It's been a central cause (for reasons other than you're stating) since day one of his campaign, let alone his administration. Really? What policies has he enacted that have led to the construction of a border wall? He's had 2 years. Why has nothing happened on that front yet? The answer is that he was never serious about actually doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, Tiberius said: I know about the case and I know Trump's rhetoric "Rapists, murderers, drugs, invasion, disease etc." He is scapegoating the immigrants and screwing up the system any way he can. The second part is correct. Immigrants are great. But you have no idea what they think so stop putting words in their mouths. I have talked to plenty. I live in SoCal, I'm neighbors with three. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, Deranged Rhino said: I have talked to plenty. I live in SoCal, I'm neighbors with three. Try again. So you talk to most of them, huh? You tell them you worship Trump? I'd love to see a video of you talking to them, that would be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, jrober38 said: I heard somewhere that current Republican policy is shaped by the farthest right portion of the party, which is about 6% of the electorate, and democratic policy is shaped by the farthest left, which is about 8% of the electorate. The result is that the other 86% of Americans who are eligible to vote are in the "middle", stuck supporting two parties whose extreme views are shaped by a tiny portion of the total population. The two party system is a very broken system. It's unbelievable to me that there isn't a 3rd, "Moderate Party" out there who will run on a basic platform of controlling economic spending, and putting the social issues that divide the country to bed. Like 80% of Americans would support that type of platform, yet for some reason it doesn't exist. The republic party was destroyed by Trump in '16. It's not the same GOP, it's been gutted (44 retirements/not running again) as the central neoconservative core was shown the door. The only reason the death of the GOP isn't bigger news is because it's now Trump's party. The DNC is in the process of being destroyed exactly what you're laying out above: they're being hijacked by extremists on the progressive left who are forcing those who operate in the middle (especially fiscally) out of the party. This will take more than one or two election cycles to clear out, but change is happening and has been happening since November 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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