McDermott is going to cost us in a big game

[mannc]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

Most coaches in this league are average.

They aren't brilliant strategists or motivators.  They have a system, scheme and style.  And if their team is full of talented football players who fit into the puzzle, they will be successful.  If their team is full of bad players or poor fits, they will fail.

 

Rex Ryan did not fail here because he was a bad coach. 

He failed here because his defensive scheme did not fit the talent, he had a mediocre/below average QB, he did not see eye-to-eye with the GM and his laid-back style was a poor fit for the rest of this organization.

 

I doubt Sean McDermott is a significantly better or worse coach than Ryan.  He's just different.

His success will not be dependent on whether he is an offensive or defensive coach.  It will not depend on whether he is conservative or aggressive.  It will not depend on his personality in press conferences, how much he uses the word "process" or how often he claps during games.  At the end of the day, his success will depend on whether Josh Allen becomes a franchise quarterback, and whether Brandon Beane can consistently find talent that fits his scheme and vision.  End of story.

 

It's fine to debate.  But calling for a coaches head based on whether he kicked a field goal, punted or went for it on 4th down during a tie-game is ridiculous.  There was sound reasoning for all three options.

 

So I guess no coach is better than any other; it all simply depends on whether the players are any good?  You really believe that?

 

in-game decision-making is only a part of the coach’s job, but it’s the most visible to the fans, and there is no question that it can win or lose games.  There is also no question that there are good and bad in-game decisions, based on probabilities, common sense and personnel.  Most NFL games are close and can swing one way or the other based on a single play or a single call.  Coaches that get those decisions wrong will probably cost their teams multiple games over the course of a season.  That’s undeniable and it therefore is (appropriately) a fertile ground for second-guessing by fans.

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

So I guess no coach is better than any other; it all simply depends on whether the players are any good?  You really believe that?

 

in-game decision-making is only a part of the coach’s job, but it’s the most visible to the fans, and there is no question that it can win or lose games.  There is also no question that there are good and bad in-game decisions, based on probabilities, common sense and personnel.  Most NFL games are close and can swing one way or the other based on a single play or a single call.  Coaches that get those decisions wrong will probably cost their teams multiple games over the course of a season.  That’s undeniable and it therefore is (appropriately) a fertile ground for second-guessing by fans.

He said "most coaches." He has a point ...

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

He said "most coaches." He has a point ...

Yeah, I guess I would have to agree that most coaches in the NFL are mediocrities, but it doesn’t mean fans should accept a mediocre coach or lousy in-game decisions.  It’s not that hard to get right.

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, mannc said:

Yeah, I guess I would have to agree that most coaches in the NFL are mediocrities, but it doesn’t mean fans should accept a mediocre coach or lousy in-game decisions.  It’s not that hard to get right.

I agree. I just think that the larger point -- that McDermott is no better or worse than, say, Jason Garrett or Jay Gruden or Adam Gase or (take your pick) -- is basically right. 

[cgg716]

2 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

He was down after getting hit earlier in the game.

That does not necessarily mean he was "INJURED" and INCAPABLE of making a field goal, or that it had anything to do with him missing.

 

In fact, Hauschka was able to kickoff twice after halftime (which is a lot farther than a field goal) and was able to make a field goal later in the game.

Why did his terrible injury not stop him on those plays?

 

The job of the coach is to TRUST the team doctors and TRUST his players to let him know when they are unable to play.

McDermott is trying to win games, and has numerous choices to make during every game.  A decision is not WRONG just because YOU don't like it.  A decision is not WRONG just because the play isn't successful.

 

Fans second-guessing coaching decisions is one of the worst parts of professional sports. 

Sean Payton became a coaching genius after the Super Bowl onside kick.  But what happens if the Saints kicker shanks it?  Or the Colts recover?  Or one of his players jumps offside?  It was a play that could have gone either way.  The same with Pete Carroll, who has been endlessly criticized for not running Marshawn Lynch in the Super Bowl.  But what about Russell Wilson's responsibility to not throw the ball directly into traffic?  How does Carroll's legacy change if Malcolm Butler is a split-second slower in reacting?

 

 

 

Except in just the previous week, he didn't allow hauschka to kick from about 56 at half in warm weather and instead opted for a hail Mary, with a healthy kicker. He doesn't grasp percentages and seems to make the lowest percentage choice, which is usually the conservative choice. Though he was aggressive in the scenario I just detailed, it was the wrong call percentage wise and if you trust your kicker. So to make the same call in reverse the next week, he is clueless on game day 

[Bing Bong]

3 hours ago, mjt328 said:

Fans second-guessing coaching decisions is one of the worst parts of professional sports. 

3 hours ago, mannc said:

Of all the comments I’ve read here, this one is pretty shocking.   Just shut up and watch??  Or cheerlead?

At the risk of adding to the worst part in professional sports. I'll pile on and second guess Beli's decision to play Gronk at safety on a 70+ yard hail mary situation. It was moronic. And it cost them the game. I'll second guess naming Peterman the week 1 starter.

 

Wth is the point of being a fan without objectively evaluating coaching decisions and players and GMs.. Some coaches make smart decisions, they also make dumb ones. 

 

For the record I don't give a crap about the kicker situation though. That's seriously nitpicking a coach. But we can ABSOLUTELY second guess Beli putting in Gronk over McCourty last week BECAUSE IT COST HIM THE GAME. And it's fun..? Literally what the fan experience is about, whether we're right or wrong we can have opinions without being the worst part of professional sports. We can take fans and TV analysts away from professional sports I guess as that's literally the only solution to the scourge of second guessing stupid coaching decisions.

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[John from Riverside]

I agree that McD is a conservative coach

 

You know what conservative coaches do?  They run the ball

 

You know what we cant do?  Run the ball

 

A HUGE part of the problem

[LSHMEAB]

8 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

At the risk of adding to the worst part in professional sports. I'll pile on and second guess Beli's decision to play Gronk at safety on a 70+ yard hail mary situation. It was moronic. And it cost them the game. I'll second guess naming Peterman the week 1 starter.

 

Wth is the point of being a fan without objectively evaluating coaching decisions and players and GMs.. Some coaches make smart decisions, they also make dumb ones. 

 

For the record I don't give a crap about the kicker situation though. That's seriously nitpicking a coach. But we can ABSOLUTELY second guess Beli putting in Gronk over McCourty last week BECAUSE IT COST HIM THE GAME. And it's fun..? Literally what the fan experience is about, whether we're right or wrong we can have opinions without being the worst part of professional sports. We can take fans and TV analysts away from professional sports I guess as that's literally the only solution to the scourge of second guessing stupid coaching decisions.

 

If it weren't for second guessing, what in the name of God is the point of visiting a Bills message board?

 

That's kind of what we do around here.

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by LSHMEAB

[Bing Bong]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

If it weren't for second guessing, what in the name of God is the point of visiting a Bills message board?

 

That's kind of what we do around here.

 

It's the worst thing that's ever happened to sports.

[mannc]

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I agree. I just think that the larger point -- that McDermott is no better or worse than, say, Jason Garrett or Jay Gruden or Adam Gase or (take your pick) -- is basically right. 

Agreed, which doesn’t mean he should be retained.  I feel very confident in saying that McDermott will be gone if the Bills don’t make major progress in 2019.  As it should be...

[reddogblitz]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I agree that McD is a conservative coach

 

You know what conservative coaches do?  They run the ball

 

You know what we cant do?  Run the ball

 

A HUGE part of the problem

 

we were darn good at running the the 3 years before he got here with the same RB with conservative  coach ing.  

[HOUSE]

I have no real problem with McD. He simply does not trust the players on the field THIS YEAR.

There are no money WRs on this team

[fansince88]

15 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

we were darn good at running the the 3 years before he got here with the same RB with conservative  coach ing.  

And a much better McCoy and Beast of a puller like Richie and a developed center.

BTW,  McCoy is DUNN!

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by fansince88

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I have no real problem with McD. He simply does not trust the players on the field THIS YEAR.

There are no money WRs on this team

 

...so if McBeane delivers him "the goods" in 2019 and McDermott does NOT, then what?.....another chapter of Jauron ball?.....

[Misterbluesky]

On 12/10/2018 at 11:50 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Where do people get this conservative narrative from?  Bills are aggressive all the time, going for big plays, trick plays, long balls, etc.  We are among the leaders (if not the one with the most) in taking shots down field.  

 

Everytime a play doesnt work out this board paints this narrative that it means something specific.  The last thing I think on a Sunday is that this team is “conservative”.  We take more big shots than most teams.  We unfortunately aren’t talented enough to convert as many as we would like thanks to bad OL protection and low quality weapons to throw to.

 

I think some fans just can't get that sweet playoff taste out of their mouths.Last year was awesome and we got  that monkey off our backs...but most of us realized this year going to be a rough ride....the decisions that were made by the Beane Counter since he came here suggested the process would mean no success until 2019...our current roster will look nothing like the one that will be in place next September...baby steps...walking...then you run.

[reddogblitz]

9 minutes ago, fansince88 said:

And a much better McCoy and Beast of a puller like Richie and a developed center.

BTW,  McCoy is DUNN!

 

 

we had the Beast puller last year and our run game still sucked.

 

what RB besides maybe Earl Campbell could run behind this line?

 

there was plenty of time after Wood retired and Glenn was traded and Richie did whatever he did to find better replacements than THE PROCESS did. Lame excuse IMHO.

Edited December 11, 2018 by reddogblitz

[KD in CA]

Of course, he's the only coach to actually get the Bills into a big game this century, so there's that.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

48 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said:

I think some fans just can't get that sweet playoff taste out of their mouths.Last year was awesome and we got  that monkey off our backs...but most of us realized this year going to be a rough ride....the decisions that were made by the Beane Counter since he came here suggested the process would mean no success until 2019...our current roster will look nothing like the one that will be in place next September...baby steps...walking...then you run.

 

...too much draft capital and FA $$$$ NOT to make a significant improvement in 2019.....same 4-9 position at this time NEXT year raises some real concerns.......personnel, be it draft or FA has never been, is not and never will be an exact science......just hope we see less questionable personnel moves in 2019....sure the cap cleanup/restrictions forced him to go "value shopping" as in guys coming off injury like "Halftime" Davis (no way to predict him as a quitter) or Murphy (PED fitting the "process"?)......judging we were "all set" with Peterman making the meteoric rise from the 5th round to NFL starter because of performances with "rubber bullets", thereby dumping McCarron?..having to beg Anderson to "exit the beach" and sign as a probable HUGE favor to McBeane?.....the $3.2 mil "Coleman heist"?.......using Cordy as trade bait to move up because our OL was DEFINITELY formidable, making him expendable?.....NOT going to fault him for the Benjamin deal....no way to know what's in the clown's "head 'n heart"..."change of scenery" worked wonders for the Colts' bust Jerry Hughes.......Benjamin?....nope.......think this gang needs to vet certain coaching positions as well (no sense in rehashing names).....off season and 2019 will certainly define your "baby steps...walking...then you run." scenario...BUT...if we're "running in place" or even dare to go "azz backwards".........stay tuned.........

Edited December 11, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Nextmanup]

15 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

Of course, he's the only coach to actually get the Bills into a big game this century, so there's that.

I guess you are talking about the playoff game.

 

You seem to suggest McDermott has distinguished himself with some sort of accomplishment no other Bills coach has been able to achieve this century.  

 

McD's 9-7 record is no different than Mularkey's in 2004 or Doug Marrone's in 2014.

 

McD lucked out with factors totally outside of his control and beyond the scope of his personal achievements in a way that Mularkey and Marrone did not, so McD gets the playoff game and those guys didn't.

 

Doesn't make McD any better than your typical Bills 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 fare IMO. 

 

That's where this organization has lived forever.

 

The playoff appearance is greatly overblown around here, along with lots of other things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[reddogblitz]

Just now, Nextmanup said:

I guess you are talking about the playoff game.

 

You seem to suggest McDermott has distinguished himself with some sort of accomplishment no other Bills coach has been able to achieve this century.  

 

McD's 9-7 record is no different than Mularkey's in 2004 or Doug Marrone's in 2014.

 

McD lucked out with factors totally outside of his control and beyond the scope of his personal achievements in a way that Mularkey and Marrone did not, so McD gets the playoff game and those guys didn't.

 

Doesn't make McD any better than your typical Bills 7-9, 8-8, 9-7 fare IMO.

 

I disagree.

 

there were several other years throughout the drought where 9-7 could get us in but we never even got close.  McDermott got more out of the team than the sum of it's parts unlike his predecessor who got less.  Drought could have been ended in 2004 or 2014 if those teams had been able to knuckle under and get a big win down the stretch like Coach McDermott's team did in 2018 winning 5 out of the last 7 games including a win over playoff bound KC.

 

2004 team lost to the Steelers scrubs and 2004 team lost to 2-14 Raiders.  That's the difference.

 

give the man his due cred IMHO.