26CornerBlitz Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: The excuses for Allen, who has NEVER had a good completion percentage are getting classic. "Dropped passes." Guess who else has WR's that drop passes: Every QB in the NFL! The O-line is terrible, but that does not make him heave the ball into the middle of the field for an easy INT instead of throwing it out of bounds. It also does not make him have horrid ball placement on the final throw. Contrast that to Darnold's ball placement to Anderson over one of the best CB's in the NFL (White). A 44.4 QBR is terrible. A 50ish completion percentage is exactly around where he was in college. He lacks touch on the intermedia passes. If I'm the Bills, I'm getting a QB in FA. (Bridgewater). Can Allen improve with a better OL and another WR, perhaps. But Allen flat-out missed wide-open WR's yesterday, and rifled passes incomplete that most QB's with a bit of touch make. except he keeps repeating the same mistakes. Still no touch on the ball, still heaving it into the middle of the field, which I'm sure he has been told NOT to do since HS. Taking ownership is great, actually improving is better. IIRC, it's his 1st lost fumble this season while on the run and he did have the same kind of INT at GB where he tried to do too much instead of throwing the ball away. He has shown improvement in a number of facets, but obviously there is room for additional growth. 1
RyanC883 Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, thebandit27 said: Ladies and Gentlemen, Sam Darnold: CMP ATT YDS CMP% AVG TD LNG INT FUM QBR RAT 2018 Regular Season 175 313 2,104 55.9 6.72 12 76 15 4 33.9 Darnold is awful also. But who was better yesterday. Nice red herring response, btw. Look, a QB who is worse. You're scrapping the bottom when you take Darnold or any Jets QB to make yourself feel better about your QB situation.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, RobH063 said: In Allen's press Conference yesterday, I was a little shocked when he said words to the effect of Coach McDermott preaches ball security all the time and there were a couple of plays where it wasn't the most important thing to me. How can ball security not be the most important thing every time you touch the ball? Yes, interceptions and fumbles are going to happen because he's playing against other professionals that are really good football players but scrambling and running toward the sideline and then throwing the ball across your body toward a receiver that's surrounded by several defenders because ball security isn't high on the priority list is a problem. Running with the football not tucked away like Shady McCoy is a problem. Most will say he's young, he's a rookie, he'll learn not to do those things. But will he? Is this kid even coachable? Am I supposed to believe that no coach anywhere in all the years he's been playing QB, has even tried to teach him about ball security? He's hearing all this for the first time now in the NFL? Or is he just not learning the lessons being taught to him? Every week we hear about how his footwork needs to improve to make him more accurate and once again yesterday, I saw numerous plays where his front foot is pointing one direction and he's throwing the ball another direction. His footwork hasn't really improved so if he doesn't listen to the preaching about ball security, are we to believe he's listening to the coaches about his footwork or anything else for that matter? I'm not a Josh Allen hater by any means. I hope the kid becomes the franchise QB for the Bills everyone hopes for, but I do question how much his physical talents and being told how great he is for several years has impeded his ability to be coached up so he learns and becomes the best QB he can be. I heard that as Allen saying there were a couple plays where he had deviated from what he's being coached - ie, identifying the problem and accepting responsibility . As he should.
RyanC883 Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: IIRC, it's his 1st lost fumble this season while on the run and he did have the same kind of INT at GB where he tried to do too much instead of throwing the ball away. He has shown improvement in a number of facets, but obviously there is room for additional growth. It's like he (a) does not care, or (b) is stupid. That interception is something that you should not be doing in HS, College, and he is doing it REPEATEDLY in the NFL. MCD needs to tell him that he does it again, he is sitting the next drive. Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: I heard that as Allen saying there were a couple plays where he had deviated from what he's being coached - ie, identifying the problem and accepting responsibility . As he should. and the coach should say, "you deviate again, your going to deviate to the bench the next drive." Pretty arrogant to be deviating from the coaching to heave the ball into the middle of the field when your not close to an all-pro.
thebandit27 Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, RyanC883 said: Darnold is awful also. But who was better yesterday. Nice red herring response, btw. Look, a QB who is worse. You're scrapping the bottom when you take Darnold or any Jets QB to make yourself feel better about your QB situation. No, Darnold isn't awful...he's a rookie. This is what rookies look like...try watching the NFL occasionally. Believe it or not, these guys both look MUCH better than Goff and Trubisky did as rookies...but hey, when you need to bang on a keyboard and get out some frustration, sometimes you're going to go ahead and toss the facts out the window in favor of raw emotion. I get it, but it's stupid. Oh, and who was better yesterday? Neither. They both turned the ball over, they both missed opportunities, and they both put their team in position to win the game. If not for 2 missed FGs we'd be sitting here talking about how Allen got the job done. But hey, you do you man. 1 minute ago, RyanC883 said: and the coach should say, "you deviate again, your going to deviate to the bench the next drive." Pretty arrogant to be deviating from the coaching to heave the ball into the middle of the field when your not close to an all-pro. Ah, so the coach should tell his rookie QB not to take any chances in a lost season when the kid's trying to learn? That would be unmitigated stupidity. 1
26CornerBlitz Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, RyanC883 said: It's like he (a) does not care, or (b) is stupid. That interception is something that you should not be doing in HS, College, and he is doing it REPEATEDLY in the NFL. MCD needs to tell him that he does it again, he is sitting the next drive. Repeatedly? I'd say it's the 2nd time he's thrown one like that although he has lived dangerously on others. Yanking him would be a bad move IMO with essentially nothing to play for at 4-9..
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 53 minutes ago, Magox said: I can't remember who said it, I think Tony Romo but it was something along the lines that he'd like to see these young rookie QB's take more chances and if that means turning it over, so be it. Romo said it during the Vikes game. I'll be interested to hear what he said about yesterday's INTs as I wasn't listening to audio. 53 minutes ago, Magox said: With that said, that was a horrible decision by Allen on that one pick and I'm sure that he'll learn from it. The last pick at the end of the game, I think he had predetermined that he was going to throw to Zay and was surprised to see the DB drift back. Not a good play by Josh Allen and that play believe it or not to me is a little more difficult to learn from. The first was just a bad decision, the second was not reading the play correctly. Another area that Allen needs to work on is his touch. Although Clay dropped that pass in the first half (Which he should have caught) it wasn't so much that it was too low which it was, I think it was somewhere around knee to thigh high it was that Clay had a couple steps on his man and he needed to recognize that he didn't have to hurry the pass as much as that he did and that in some circumstances it is ok to take something off the ball. That could have been a huge gainer. He's done that quite a few times this year where the receiver is not being tightly covered where he still tries to zing it in there when it is not necessary. That is something else I believe he will make a huge leap in his second year. There is a lot to be optimistic about Allen. He is the offense and he's putting up good overall totals with a team that is devoid of playmakers and an offensive line. Allen has a lot - a lot of mental toughness, a lot of sheer physical athletic ability, a lot of intelligence, a lot of development needs, and a lot to learn. He's a rookie. We'll see. You're damn straight he's the offense right now and has no OL and no run game to support him, and questionable talent at WR and TE.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Gugny said: You ask a lot of questions. I kind of feel they have a rhetorical aspect to them 1
RyanC883 Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: No, Darnold isn't awful...he's a rookie. This is what rookies look like...try watching the NFL occasionally. Believe it or not, these guys both look MUCH better than Goff and Trubisky did as rookies...but hey, when you need to bang on a keyboard and get out some frustration, sometimes you're going to go ahead and toss the facts out the window in favor of raw emotion. I get it, but it's stupid. Oh, and who was better yesterday? Neither. They both turned the ball over, they both missed opportunities, and they both put their team in position to win the game. If not for 2 missed FGs we'd be sitting here talking about how Allen got the job done. But hey, you do you man. Ah, so the coach should tell his rookie QB not to take any chances in a lost season when the kid's trying to learn? That would be unmitigated stupidity. Hey, if calling another poster "stupid," and acting arrogant is your thing, well, you do you. Darnold made plays when he needed to yesterday, Allen didn't. Darnold played better yesterday. And the coach clearly, if you watched his press conference, was not happy with Allen throwing the ball into the middle of the field instead of out of bounds. Telling a QB to take SMART chances is what a coach should do. Heaving the ball into the middle of the field in that situation, that's unmitigatedly stupid. But perhaps you need to actually think before responding instead of banging on a keyboard?? And no, Goff and Trubisky were not much better than Darnold or Allen as rookies. Goff and Trubisky both had better completion percentages and QBR. A little research would have helped you there. Oh, and both were better in college. What we are seeing here in Allen is a kid who thinks he is superman, and goes out and makes bonehead plays and doe not listen to coaching. And we have seen no improvement in accuracy or touch. Why will this improve next year? 8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Romo said it during the Vikes game. I'll be interested to hear what he said about yesterday's INTs as I wasn't listening to audio. Allen has a lot - a lot of mental toughness, a lot of sheer physical athletic ability, a lot of intelligence, a lot of development needs, and a lot to learn. He's a rookie. We'll see. You're damn straight he's the offense right now and has no OL and no run game to support him, and questionable talent at WR and TE. We need a massive TE upgrade. TE is supposed to be a rookie QB's best friend (or a good C, or RB). We need to hit TE and C in FA.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: Why will this improve next year? Why won't it? You're making the assertion, you back it up. 1
RyanC883 Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Repeatedly? I'd say it's the 2nd time he's thrown one like that although he has lived dangerously on others. Yanking him would be a bad move IMO with essentially nothing to play for at 4-9.. I agree, but I'd only yank him for one drive. Coaches do it all the time to RB's for fumbling. Making a repeated ill-advised heave into the middle of the field instead of out of bounds when you have been told repeatedly NOT to do that, IMO, warrants a one series benching. Lets try to fix Allen's mistakes now, since as you correctly point out, there is not much else to play for here. Just now, Joe in Winslow said: Why won't it? You're making the assertion, you back it up. It hasn't improved from college to the NFL. The same issues (low completion percentage, lack of touch, etc) are still present. What makes someone think it will improve next year? I hope it does. But if the Bills build around Allen and he still can't perform, what's plan B? I'd: (1) build around Allen; (2) try to get Bridgewater in FA. What if they both play well: great, trade one.
oldmanfan Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 1 minute ago, RyanC883 said: Hey, if calling another poster "stupid," and acting arrogant is your thing, well, you do you. Darnold made plays when he needed to yesterday, Allen didn't. Darnold played better yesterday. And the coach clearly, if you watched his press conference, was not happy with Allen throwing the ball into the middle of the field instead of out of bounds. Telling a QB to take SMART chances is what a coach should do. Heaving the ball into the middle of the field in that situation, that's unmitigatedly stupid. But perhaps you need to actually think before responding instead of banging on a keyboard?? And no, Goff and Trubisky were not much better than Darnold or Allen as rookies. Goff and Trubisky both had better completion percentages and QBR. A little research would have helped you there. Oh, and both were better in college. What we are seeing here in Allen is a kid who thinks he is superman, and goes out and makes bonehead plays and doe not listen to coaching. And we have seen no improvement in accuracy or touch. Why will this improve next year? This is unadulterated nonsense, and there is far too much of it on this board. He doesn't listen at all to his coaches? Crap. He made a bad play yesterday on that first pick, and now he does not listen to his coaches? You have seen no improvement in accuracy? Also crap. Watch the actual games and see how many times he hits guys right in the hands or the numbers only to see them drop the ball. By the way Goff hasn't looked good the last couple weeks. He threw a couple picks yesterday. Is he boneheaded? Is he not listening to McVey? Danrnold made the same type of throw and got picked yesterday. But he's not boneheaded, is he? No, to you he played better. Allen and Darnold are both young guys with things to learn. So are Goff and Trubiskey. But of course who do some Bills fans single out as the guy who can't cut it? Their own QB. Disgusting. 2
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: It hasn't improved from college to the NFL. You've given him all of EIGHT games with the worst WRs and one of the worst OLs in the NFL to make that sage judgement? Someone's got an agenda.
RyanC883 Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: You've given him all of EIGHT games with the worst WRs and one of the worst OLs in the NFL to make that sage judgement? Someone's got an agenda. I have no agenda. I've also seen zero improvement. The OL did not make him heave the ball into the middle of the field, or throw a terrible pass at the end of the game, or lack touch on intermediate passes all year. Same issues from college in the NFL. I actually want him to succeed, because next offseason will be the "build around Allen" offseason. But I'd like to see some improvement in decision-making and touch this year. I'd rather see 100 incomplete passes because my WR and OL stink, then heaving the ball into the middle of the field. Rookie QB's will always be pressured (unless you are Darnold yesterday, who for some reason we decided not to blitz. But that's another issue).
dickleyjones Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Bangarang said: Look at that big wall of text. Just look at it. if you look at it long enough does it turn into one of those 3D images? i think i see a boat... 2
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: I have no agenda. I've also seen zero improvement. Say it with me: "over eight games of his rookie season with arguably the worst supporting cast in the NFL." Adjust to reality man. It'll be ok. Darnold did nothing till the fourth quarter, and then made exactly TWO really good passes. He wasn't the second coming of namath. Edited December 10, 2018 by Joe in Winslow 1
RyanC883 Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said: This is unadulterated nonsense, and there is far too much of it on this board. He doesn't listen at all to his coaches? Crap. He made a bad play yesterday on that first pick, and now he does not listen to his coaches? You have seen no improvement in accuracy? Also crap. Watch the actual games and see how many times he hits guys right in the hands or the numbers only to see them drop the ball. By the way Goff hasn't looked good the last couple weeks. He threw a couple picks yesterday. Is he boneheaded? Is he not listening to McVey? Danrnold made the same type of throw and got picked yesterday. But he's not boneheaded, is he? No, to you he played better. Allen and Darnold are both young guys with things to learn. So are Goff and Trubiskey. But of course who do some Bills fans single out as the guy who can't cut it? Their own QB. Disgusting. haahah. you are too funny. Allen ADMITTED he did some things (throw the ball into the middle of the field) that were bad. And yeah, Darnold also did it. Was also ridiculous for him to do it. Goff played the Bears last night, but I didn't see a lot of bonehead plays. I saw a lot of WR's missing their routes. The issue with Allen is that we are seeing the same problems that we saw coming into the draft. Accuracy and touch. No improvement. If he improved in one of those areas I'd be happy. He hasn't. And I wouldn't want Darnold either. For the record, I think Allen is the better QB. Darnold just had a better overall game yesterday. He led his team on a game winning drive (aided by our terrible D play).
dubs Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 Ball security isn’t the most important thing for a QB. I think “ball security” is just a borderline meaningless statement that coaches and players say all the time. When yoh you are too concerned with ball security, you get Tyrod Taylor. More accurately it’s: making instant risk/reward trade off decisions and not making stupid decisions. Allen wasn’t great with that yesterday but he will get better.
RyanC883 Posted December 10, 2018 Posted December 10, 2018 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Say it with me: "over eight games of his rookie season with arguably the worst supporting cast in the NFL." Adjust to reality man. It'll be ok. Darnold did nothing till the fourth quarter, and then made exactly TWO really good passes. He wasn't the second coming of namath. ZERO improvement from College to NFL. Some people are so desperate for Allen to be the "answer" that they throw all objectivity out the window. Yeah, his cast is bad, esp. the OL. But will an improved OL improve Allen's touch, or his heaving it into the middle of the field? Or his accuracy? I hope so. I also hope the Bills get Allen a QB coach.
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