Is Josh Allen your QB?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

Maybe but give me a vet. Make that an option. At this point EJ had a comparable to better start to his career.

 

Slow it down guys. 

 

Downvoted

[RosenNOTchosen1]

Just when I was getting excited about Allen I think he took a major step backwards today.

 

There's no doubt he's a dynamic runner, but when it comes to being a complete quarterback he just hasn't been very impressive. 

 

He leaves the pocket way too early, has big time accuracy issues, and makes incredibly stupid decisions with the football. 

[ghostwriter]

14 minutes ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

Just when I was getting excited about Allen I think he took a major step backwards today.

 

There's no doubt he's a dynamic runner, but when it comes to being a complete quarterback he just hasn't been very impressive. 

 

He leaves the pocket way too early, has big time accuracy issues, and makes incredibly stupid decisions with the football. 

Historically speaking most veteran QBs have mastered the game in the areas Allen needs help at. I think Allen's issues as a game manager will correct itself over time. It will all even out. The big playmaking mentality that Allen brings though is elite, you have it or you don't. Once again, Allen will grow as a manager, guaranteed. We just got to let Allen grow, he will continue to improve until he's 34 or 35.

Edited December 10, 2018 by NewDayBills

[Mountain Man]

Right now, I don't think you could judge any QB properly behind that line. 

16 minutes ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

He leaves the pocket way too early, 

I think he is right to. Running around gives him a better chance of survival than standing behind a crumbling O line

[Success]

57 minutes ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

Just when I was getting excited about Allen I think he took a major step backwards today.

 

There's no doubt he's a dynamic runner, but when it comes to being a complete quarterback he just hasn't been very impressive. 

 

He leaves the pocket way too early, has big time accuracy issues, and makes incredibly stupid decisions with the football. 

Pocket?

 

You saw a pocket today?

[RosenNOTchosen1]

53 minutes ago, Success said:

Pocket?

 

You saw a pocket today?

 

Why did Barkley seem to have time to throw against the same team?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Hell yes and we have a vet in Barkley.

 

Get a developmental QB down the road once the team is built.

8 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

Maybe but give me a vet. Make that an option. At this point EJ had a comparable to better start to his career.

 

Slow it down guys. 

 

Ej was the most inconsistent thrower ever and not even close in talent and leadership.

 

Josh is the franchise.

 

 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

10 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

Should we bring back his nephew?  He could at least catch!

[The Red King]

3 hours ago, RosenNOTchosen1 said:

 

Why did Barkley seem to have time to throw against the same team?

 

...because the Jets played worse the first game?  Are you...seriously blaming the lack of pocket on Allen?  Going to blame him for world hunger, too?  O.o

[jrober38]

5 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Historically speaking most veteran QBs have mastered the game in the areas Allen needs help at. I think Allen's issues as a game manager will correct itself over time. It will all even out. The big playmaking mentality that Allen brings though is elite, you have it or you don't. Once again, Allen will grow as a manager, guaranteed. We just got to let Allen grow, he will continue to improve until he's 34 or 35.

 

Allen's play making ability is almost exclusively limited to his ability as a runner. As a passer, by pretty much every metric you can look at he's very poor. He's got a huge arm, but he's only completed one deep ball all year. 

 

In a few years once the hits pile up and he's running less, he needs to improve drastically as a pocket passer otherwise he won't be an option at QB without the elite running ability. He simply misses too many easy throws that NFL QBs have to complete. 

 

Not saying he'll bust, but this is essentially what held JP Losman back as a QB. He loved running around and getting outside the pocket, and he had a rocket arm and great deep ball, but he struggled with check downs which are the throws that keep the chains moving. The offense was too feast or famine under Losman and it wasn't sustainable for any long term success. Same issue with Allen yesterday - pretty good in the first half ripping off chunk gains with his legs, and then the offense was awful in the second half, putting up only 6 points with 3 of them coming off a fumbled kickoff at the 15 yard line. 

 

Allen's efficiency needs to improve drastically if he wants to be a franchise QB. 

Edited December 10, 2018 by jrober38

[GunnerBill]

My answer is maybe - it is too early to know one way or the other. The tape has some good, some bad. There are reasons to be encouraged but he still needs to improve a lot in key facets. But I don't want to draft a QB this year. I'm happy to roll with Allen and Barkley for 2019 and sign a camp arm or two (an UDFA and a low end FA).

 

If it is still a maybe in 2020 then you should be looking to take a mid round QB and if it is still no better than a maybe by the time the 2021 draft comes around then you go again and pick a 1st round Quarterback.

[GreggTX]

Regrettably, Josh Allen's much advertised inaccuracy has not gone away and probably never will. Maybe, just maybe he'll get smarter about his decision making, but he'll never be an elite NFL QB. How long before the new regime admits he's not the guy and goes after another QB? He runs very well, but his arm, though strong, remains a serious liability. we all should know by now that accuracy is the most important quality an NFL QB can have. Sad but true.

[Teddy KGB]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Allen's play making ability is almost exclusively limited to his ability as a runner

 

 

[Q-baby!]

Yes! 

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, GreggTX said:

Regrettably, Josh Allen's much advertised inaccuracy has not gone away and probably never will. Maybe, just maybe he'll get smarter about his decision making, but he'll never be an elite NFL QB. How long before the new regime admits he's not the guy and goes after another QB? He runs very well, but his arm, though strong, remains a serious liability. we all should know by now that accuracy is the most important quality an NFL QB can have. Sad but true.

 

His scouting reports are exactly as advertised.

 

Pros - huge arm, elite mobility, extremely strong and tough, capable of making throws 95% of NFL QBs can't make. 

 

Cons - misses dump offs and easy throws, leaves pocket too early, too much hero blood throwing balls into danger, completes a very low percentage of his passes. 

 

He'll get another year, but if his QB Rating isn't in at least the high 80s next year with an improved supporting cast, I hope the Bills explore other options in 2020. 

[Juice_32]

He is my guy. I can't wait to see what he does when/if these things happen:

 

1. We get him protection and weapons.

 

2. The game slows down for him a little and he sees things he isn't right now. There have been several times where a 10 yard run could have been a 10 yard pass but he didn't check it down.

 

3. He doesn't feel the need to hit a home run on every play. Sometimes a sure 6 yards is a good thing.

 

4. He develops a little more touch.

 

5. He has a full offseason to review his game tape for this year.

 

Year 2 will obviously be big for him. I do not believe he's a finished product and we will see strides towards him becoming something special. He has a lot of what you can not teach.

[oldmanfan]

You know, enough is enough.  Allen is a rookie QB, and as such prone to the occasional dumb play, like the first pick he threw.  That is a typical dumb rookie mistake and he needs to learn from that.

 

But as for the rest?  This accuracy garbage?  He threw one short pass badly to a RB, and everyone harps on that.  What about the perfect screen to Murphy the opening drive?  Funny how that doesn't get mentioned.  And then you have someone here who thinks he's a QB savant deliberately making things up about the throw to Clay over the middle where the guy once again drops a pass put right on him, and somehow makes that into it's Allen's fault.  That is total BS.

 

I honestly don't know what games some people watch around here.  Watch the games, not just ours but others.  Allen when given time in the pocket and/or making time by scrambling has had no problem hitting guys.  But yet this accuracy thing gets brought up time and time again, presumably because he had a 50% completion percentage yesterday. 

He was 18/26.  Now, how many throwaways did he have?  Off the top of my head I counted 3.  Now, how many flat out drops did he have?  I can think of three right off the top of my head: the aforementioned one to Clay, a flip screen to Shady that he flat out dropped, and the throw to Jones where he drilled it right into his chest and he drops that.  So if you take those into consideration his accuracy is fine and his completion percentage is 60%, the magic number for so many around here.  And then when you scan around other games and see other QBs miss some throws, even veteran HOF types like Big Ben and Brees,  the agenda of some becomes clear.

 

That agenda?  Some don't want the Bills or their young QB to succeed for whatever reason.  People clamor for the Bills to finally draft a QB high, and they do.  They get a kid - a KID - who has a lot to learn obviously, but also has skills that are rare in the league.  But that's not enough.  We have supposed supporters of the team that want to pick apart every single throw the kid makes as if a single throw will make all the difference in whether the kid makes it in the league.  We have people making up things to support their preconceived notion that he won't be good, a notion they decided on even before the draft.  Why there are some who don't want the kid or his team to succeed, I will never understand, unless you're a secret Fish or Jets or Pats fan.

 

 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

You know, enough is enough.  Allen is a rookie QB, and as such prone to the occasional dumb play, like the first pick he threw.  That is a typical dumb rookie mistake and he needs to learn from that.

 

But as for the rest?  This accuracy garbage?  He threw one short pass badly to a RB, and everyone harps on that.  What about the perfect screen to Murphy the opening drive?  Funny how that doesn't get mentioned.  And then you have someone here who thinks he's a QB savant deliberately making things up about the throw to Clay over the middle where the guy once again drops a pass put right on him, and somehow makes that into it's Allen's fault.  That is total BS.

 

I honestly don't know what games some people watch around here.  Watch the games, not just ours but others.  Allen when given time in the pocket and/or making time by scrambling has had no problem hitting guys.  But yet this accuracy thing gets brought up time and time again, presumably because he had a 50% completion percentage yesterday. 

He was 18/26.  Now, how many throwaways did he have?  Off the top of my head I counted 3.  Now, how many flat out drops did he have?  I can think of three right off the top of my head: the aforementioned one to Clay, a flip screen to Shady that he flat out dropped, and the throw to Jones where he drilled it right into his chest and he drops that.  So if you take those into consideration his accuracy is fine and his completion percentage is 60%, the magic number for so many around here.  And then when you scan around other games and see other QBs miss some throws, even veteran HOF types like Big Ben and Brees,  the agenda of some becomes clear.

 

That agenda?  Some don't want the Bills or their young QB to succeed for whatever reason.  People clamor for the Bills to finally draft a QB high, and they do.  They get a kid - a KID - who has a lot to learn obviously, but also has skills that are rare in the league.  But that's not enough.  We have supposed supporters of the team that want to pick apart every single throw the kid makes as if a single throw will make all the difference in whether the kid makes it in the league.  We have people making up things to support their preconceived notion that he won't be good, a notion they decided on even before the draft.  Why there are some who don't want the kid or his team to succeed, I will never understand, unless you're a secret Fish or Jets or Pats fan.

 

 

 

Literally every QB in the NFL throws the ball away and has their receivers drop passes.

 

This isn't unique to just Josh Allen. 

 

Allen is bottom of the NFL in pretty much every passing category. He's not even remotely close to guys like Big Ben or Brees. 

 

32nd in QB Rating, 34th in TD %, 29th in Int %, 33rd in YPA, 33 in Adjusted YPA, 34th in Net YPA, 34th in Adjusted Net YPA. 

 

His stats are really bad. Like worst in the league by most metrics. 

 

This isn't a narrative. This is all factual information. 

 

Allen has made his dumb rookie mistake twice now on throws that were picked this season. He actually made the same mistake in the 3rd quarter, after he'd already been picked the first time, so he doesn't appear to have learned anything. 

[papazoid]

accuracy ??

 

josh is a solid starter.

 

I doubt he ever becomes a Top 10 "franchise" QB in this league. 

 

I want them to draft another QB in the 1st or 2nd round. Josh runs too much and will get hurt. we need another top QB so the season is not lost

[ghostwriter]

38 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Allen's play making ability is almost exclusively limited to his ability as a runner. As a passer, by pretty much every metric you can look at he's very poor. He's got a huge arm, but he's only completed one deep ball all year. 

 

In a few years once the hits pile up and he's running less, he needs to improve drastically as a pocket passer otherwise he won't be an option at QB without the elite running ability. He simply misses too many easy throws that NFL QBs have to complete. 

 

Not saying he'll bust, but this is essentially what held JP Losman back as a QB. He loved running around and getting outside the pocket, and he had a rocket arm and great deep ball, but he struggled with check downs which are the throws that keep the chains moving. The offense was too feast or famine under Losman and it wasn't sustainable for any long term success. Same issue with Allen yesterday - pretty good in the first half ripping off chunk gains with his legs, and then the offense was awful in the second half, putting up only 6 points with 3 of them coming off a fumbled kickoff at the 15 yard line. 

 

Allen's efficiency needs to improve drastically if he wants to be a franchise QB. 

Once again, the good news for Allen is that the areas he's weak in areas that typically NFL veterans become proficient in over time. Allen can throw a 75yd strike to Robert Foster but he can't hit a 1yd RB screen? It'll come. As far as deep plays I think he's done more than you give him credit for. Foster has almost 400yds at 24yac. Zay Jones almost had a 3 TD 120yd game. He's making plays. Allen will become a manager in 2019 or will at least show development in that area next year. Every NFL QB should should should show growth here year after year. What you can't teach is the 45yd runs or TD passes thrown on a dime.