Josh Allen strategy

[ctk232]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

There's that, but then there's also the point that one might expect KB (any 'gamer' type WR or TE) to fight for 4 YAC.  Sometimes you need to take what the D gives you and trust your teammates.

 

There was also a play where Allen kept it and ran for 17 yds.  At the point where he crossed the LOS on the left side of the hashes, Allen had Shady wide open 14 yds down field and signalling for the ball.  Allen needs to trust himself to get it to his teammates when they're wide open, and trust his teammate (Shady) to be able to get at least as many yards.

 

As far as the INTs though, you may be on to something.  Romo said something similar when he was announcing the Vikes game.  Allen threw an INT and he said something to the effect of "I'm OK with that.  He'll learn something from that.  His coach ought to tell him, I want you to throw two INTS today" which I thought was nuts, but I think Romo's point was take your shots, don't second-guess yourself too much at this point, we expect you to make mistakes. 

 

Up to a point, it's better to take some shots and make mistakes than get all knotted up and fail to pull the trigger.

^This. Romo's comment as well, but especially that piece where Allen equally needs to learn to trust himself to get the ball to his playmakers, and that he doesn't have to tuck it and run on every 3rd down. I think his present ability to run creates tremendous scheming issues for opposing defenses when combined with the PAP and jet sweep/pre-snap movement. But there are plays like the third down with Shady open 14 yards down the field. I wonder if he is second guessing himself due to accuracy issues, and would rather run and fight for the first that way than risk missing on third and having to punt. Either way, it's something I would like to see more of to balance out his run threat. He's shown it before, but especially on those third down conversion scenarios, I want to see him trust himself to get the ball to his playmakers. 

[John from Riverside]

I think they are just trying to get through to this next offseason with 90 million in cap space and 10 draft pickis

[billsredneck1]

49 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said:

So, going back to the Shady situation- maybe he didn't trust Shady because of my second paragraph, or he does trust Shady, but sees so much green ahead of him, he'd rather be guaranteed the first down and have an extra blocker in Shady, than waste all of the running room he has on a pass, which is always riskier than a run.

going forward this is the number one thing i'm looking for from josh.  when he ran and crossed the los you could tell he had that split second blank and i think it was soley instinct.

that play has a lot in terms helping him mature. i hope we see him keep his eyes up just a second longer to try to find these guys.

 

this kind of situation makes a good measuring stick for the future. i hope to see him run less and throw more.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

i sure hope he learns how quick because that's a 3rd of the qb game.  the need to move the chains  makes it a must. i like that he doesn't do it on 3rd and longs, but when it's there for the taking, gotta do it.  they are talking about this now on the radio. it was said that brady uses these a lot and basically it becomes an extension to the run game....short throws and yac.

 

Allen said earlier in the season that Daboll was coaching him "don't pass one up to take a shot" meaning don't pass up a clean 5 yd pass to take a low-percentage shot downfield.  Now obviously he is taking plenty of shots, so there has to be a mixture, but hopefully Daboll will continue to stress that point.

[Augie]

By no means do I want him turning into Captain Checkdwn, but I’d like to see him do it a little more to see if he CAN do it. The 20-30 yard bullet plays to his strength - a huge arm. Does he consistently have the touch to throw that good dump pass? I’m not saying he doesn’t, I just haven’t seen enough to feel as comfortable as I should.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

By no means do I want him turning into Captain Checkdwn, but I’d like to see him do it a little more to see if he CAN do it. The 20-30 yard bullet plays to his strength - a huge arm. Does he consistently have the touch to throw that good dump pass? I’m not saying he doesn’t, I just haven’t seen enough to feel as comfortable as I should.  

 

Short passes were an aspect of Allen's game acknowledged by everyone knowledgeable (Allen, Daboll, Solak's contextual QBing) as a gap.

 

He's been working on it, and I do see solid improvement, but more work needed.

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Short passes were an aspect of Allen's game acknowledged by everyone knowledgeable (Allen, Daboll, Solak's contextual QBing) as a gap.

 

He's been working on it, and I do see solid improvement, but more work needed.

he needs to work on all facets of his game....

 

The difference between that 2nd year QB that blooms or busts is their ability to work on their all around game and take advantage of teams having game film on them.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

going forward this is the number one thing i'm looking for from josh.  when he ran and crossed the los you could tell he had that split second blank and i think it was soley instinct.

that play has a lot in terms helping him mature. i hope we see him keep his eyes up just a second longer to try to find these guys.

 

this kind of situation makes a good measuring stick for the future. i hope to see him run less and throw more.

 

I think part of it goes back to a comment I made in another thread - Allen came into the league with NO idea of the speed and power he'd face in NFL defenders.

Wyoming did not face the colledge defenders the NFL disproportionately drafts from Ohio State, LSU, 'Bama, Clemson etc

 

So his first few games were a learning curve about what he *couldn't* do.  Now he's learned he has the moves and the wheels to evade these guys if he turns it up to "full throttle", and he needs to develop a sense of when he has time to stop, set, and throw (as well as his ability to throw off platform).

 

[tumaro02]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Allen needs to trust himself to get it to his teammates when they're wide open, and trust his teammate (Shady) to be able to get at least as many yards.

Trusting any receiver on this team to do something that should be ordinary is a big risk. Even Zay who had a decent game did NOT make at least 2 important catches that he had his hands on. Allen trusted Charles Clay to make a catch on the last play that any decently skilled high school player not making 8 mil would make and you see what that got him. No, receivers have to EARN the trust of the QB or if I am Allen and know I am the best athlete in this offense and I want to win really badly I am less trusting of my teammates until they demonstrate they CAN be trusted, especially with his physical ability running the ball vs our "drop" rate. The evidence is clear.

[formerlyofCtown]

31 minutes ago, billvernsays said:

I understand. Brady is an established QB 

 

My point is that perhaps the coaches are telling him to try to figure out what he’s capable of and not capable of and NOT trying to take the easy passes which may even be the highest probably of a successful play because his development is more important than the outcome of the play/game.

 

When you put that in contrast with Brady who’s simply trying to get the best possible outcome for every play, he’s established he doesn’t need to take risks until he needs to when the games on the line he will. Ideally that’s where we want to be. But we aren’t exactly in the same position as the Pats currently. 

 

Most rookie QBs are afraid to throw the ball down the field and because of this they don’t attempt the passes, in turn they never learn, develop, and grow. 

I dont think he was knocking Allen I believe his shot was at our WRs.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

he needs to work on all facets of his game....

 

The difference between that 2nd year QB that blooms or busts is their ability to work on their all around game and take advantage of teams having game film on them.

 

Sure, John, but the short passes were a particular noted gap because for most QB they are "bunnies", gimmies, the equivalent of the basketball layup.

[formerlyofCtown]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think part of it goes back to a comment I made in another thread - Allen came into the league with NO idea of the speed and power he'd face in NFL defenders.

Wyoming did not face the colledge defenders the NFL disproportionately drafts from Ohio State, LSU, 'Bama, Clemson etc

 

So his first few games were a learning curve about what he *couldn't* do.  Now he's learned he has the moves and the wheels to evade these guys if he turns it up to "full throttle", and he needs to develop a sense of when he has time to stop, set, and throw (as well as his ability to throw off platform).

 

And hes big enough to stiff arm a DE.  I still wish he ran over Ramsey though.

[Augie]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Short passes were an aspect of Allen's game acknowledged by everyone knowledgeable (Allen, Daboll, Solak's contextual QBing) as a gap.

 

He's been working on it, and I do see solid improvement, but more work needed.

 

Exactly, that’s why I’m eager to see a little more to see where he is in his progress. Just a curiosity thing. 

 

Having said that, I can’t remember the last time I looked forward to the next game as much as I do now, and he’s a big part of that. 

 

 

.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Augie

[Dr. Who]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Sure, John, but the short passes were a particular noted gap because for most QB they are "bunnies", gimmies, the equivalent of the basketball layup.

What's odd about Allen is he seems proficient on some of the harder throws (and can make some throws because of his truly superior gifts that few qbs can even dream of making,) and yet he is behind most qbs in terms of being able to reliably hit on the "easy" throws. He works hard and is bright, so I don't see why he won't catch up on the "bunnies." If he does, look out . . .

[John from Riverside]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Sure, John, but the short passes were a particular noted gap because for most QB they are "bunnies", gimmies, the equivalent of the basketball layup.

This all falls into that discussion about his accuracy and completion percentage and how it was skewed when it comes to Josh Allen

 

Because he didnt throw the bunnies it hurts his percentage......and of course because he has a cannon and needs to learn to take something off it

[TheBrownBear]

Not sure if this is a strategy or more just his personal mindset.  Josh has serious swag and loves to push the ball downfield in search of the big play.  I was pretty distraught when we drafted him over Rosen, but he's absolutely changed my mind.  His attitude, charisma and mental makeup paired with his freakish physical gifts scream future superstar to me.   

[billvernsays]

When you look at the crop of rookie QBs only Josh and Baker seem comfortable throwing the ball 20 yards downfield or more (with certain exceptions like a simple go route. Hard throw but an easy read).

 

That’s what I’m most excited about. He looks raw at times but most of his weaknesses seem much easier to correct than the weaknesses I see in Darnald, Rosen, & Jackson.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, PaattMaann said:

 

are you talking about the sideline laser to Zay for first down when it was 3rd and long from their own 1 yard line and Allen was in the endzone? He had to roll out to his left because protection was horrible...we could be talking about different plays though because there was a lot of Allen to Jones connections.

 

I thought Allen had decent time on that play, but I’m pretty sure we are on the same play. 

[C.Biscuit97]

4 hours ago, billvernsays said:

He threw a ton of Ints his rookie year. Perhaps the Colts tweaked their game plan when they were going up against players like Bruce Smith so they didn’t risk getting their rookie franchise QB hurt. 

Im not speculating about what the game plan was for PM, that’s from Peyton’s own words. Obviously it worked out for him.

 

I’m not sure we are doing the same thing as JA didn’t check down much in college either. But I’m putting it out there for the people who still have concerns about his accuracy to point out that he’s not exactly attempting many “easy throws” good or bad it’s just the reality of the situation. This is evident by the fact that in the past 2 weeks Josh Allen has 2 of the 4 highest Air Yards per attempt for any game since 2016. 

 

Josh Allen vs Jax (2018) - 18.3

Big Ben vs Indy (2016) - 16.9 

Ryan Fitzpatrick vs Pats (2016) - 16.1 

Josh Allen vs Miami (2018) - 15.9

Isn’t Tim Tebow second in that stat?

 

also, the Bills didn’t have to have terrible receivers around Allen this year.  They just made poor choices.  Hopefully, they get someone else to scout receivers for them.

[RoyBatty is alive]

3 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I'm definitely eating crow right now as I was on the start Barkley until he flops train before going back to Allen. Allen has looked like a completely different QB since coming back from the injury. 

 

In the six games before the injury he was getting sacked on 13% of his drop backs. 21 sacks in 6 games. Had a YPA of 6.0 and was only gaining 4.4 yards per rush.

 

In his last two starts the sack rate has decreased significantly to 3.7%, only 2 sacks in 2 games. His YPA has increased to 7.5 and his rushing has been extremely efficient at 11.8ypr. The only stat that has hovered around the same is completion percentage. But I am fine with that for now.

 

Extremely efficient? Yeah, i would say like absolutely extraordinary.