Alphadawg7 Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) Poll is about do you think Beane and McD “would have”, not a poll of whether you personally think he should be. I have had an issue with Clays effort for several seasons. He is a guy who isn’t engaged on every play and head doesn’t always seem to be in the game. Underachiever is the best word that comes to mind. He has however been a solid blocker while here and that’s got value. They have already been giving Croom more and more snaps, and I have liked what I have seen from him at times. So makes me wonder what would have happened this week when they made cuts if Croom wasnt dealing with his injury. And no, not basing this just on a reaction to his drop. But, that play is kind of a slice of Clay as a Bill. He just didn’t use his head and play the ball well or the situation. He had tons of real estate while his QB was on opposite side of field running for his life and he didn’t do anything to help the QB out by coming back at all with all that room. Then didn’t judge the ball well leading to bad attempt to get back to ball and made that catch harder than it should be. And even then it’s a pass he has to catch as he got both hands on it in a typical scoop catch. Just left me wondering if Bills would have cut him to get Croom and Thomas more snaps and see what they have at TE position behind Clay. PS: For the record, I voted no as I think they would have kept him as I don’t think they want to lose his value as a blocker too. But was curious what others thought as he was already losing snaps to Croom. Edited December 5, 2018 by Alphadawg7
White Linen Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 No. Benjamin was a problem in terms of effort.
Warcodered Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 Whatever other reasons there are I don't think they were going to cut a guy that had a bad game coming back from injury have to give him a bit longer than that.
formerlyofCtown Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Poll is about do you think Beane and McD “would have”, not a poll of whether you personally think he should be. I have had an issue with Clays effort for several seasons. He is a guy who isn’t engaged on every play and head doesn’t always seem to be in the game. Underachiever is the best word that comes to mind. He has however been a solid blocker while here and that’s got value. They have already been giving Croom more and more snaps, and I have liked what I have seen from him at times. So makes me wonder what would have happened this week when they made cuts if Croom wasnt dealing with his injury. And no, not basing this just on a reaction to his drop. But, that play is kind of a slice of Clay as a Bill. He just didn’t use his head and play the ball well or the situation. He had tons of real estate while his QB was on opposite side of field running for his life and he didn’t do anything to help the QB out by coming back at all with all that room. Then didn’t judge the ball well leading to bad attempt to get back to ball and made that catch harder than it should be. And even then it’s a pass he has to catch as he got both hands on it in a typical scoop catch. Just left me wondering if Bills would have cut him to get Croom and Thomas more snaps and see what they have at TE position behind Clay. PS: For the record, I voted no as I think they would have kept him as I don’t think they want to lose his value as a blocker too. But was curious what others thought as he was already losing snaps to Croom. I dont think clay is going anywhere anytime soon.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 I’ll be surprised if he comes back next year, but KB/Holmes were on an island in terms of the level of stink. You can only trim so much fat at a time, even Weight Watchers will tell you that. Spotlight now squarely on Clay however, no doubt about that.
Augie Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 What’s the deal with his contract? I’ve heard he’s tough to cut cap wise until after next season, but I really have no idea. I say they would keep him this year regardless, but he’s not worth the $$$ so I’d move on when it’s feasible to do so.
NewEra Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said: I dont think clay is going anywhere anytime soon. Agreed. Iirc cutting him will save 4.5 mill nest year but will still have a dead cap hit of about 4.5. I doubt we’re going to spend all of our money this offseason, so the 4:5 savings is negligible. 2 minutes ago, Augie said: What’s the deal with his contract? I’ve heard he’s tough to cut cap wise until after next season, but I really have no idea. I say they would keep him this year regardless, but he’s not worth the $$$ so I’d move on when it’s feasible to do so. I could be wrong, but I think next year is his last year under contract. If we cut him, we save 4.5 and have a dead cap hit of 4:5. I think. 2 1
ColoradoBills Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, NewEra said: Agreed. Iirc cutting him will save 4.5 mill nest year but will still have a dead cap hit of about 4.5. I doubt we’re going to spend all of our money this offseason, so the 4:5 savings is negligible. Correct. I still think that maybe Beane can get a trade partner for Clay. Clay at 4.5 million salary would carry no Dead cap to the new team. Some team may think the bad Bills offense did not use Clay to his potential. I can see a 6th or even some sort of "round swap" for Clay.
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 Does he really seem unengaged? With KB, there was video evidence of him giving up at the end of routes? Is the same true of Clay? Here's the thing, alot of this decision likely had to do with whats going on behind the scenes. I have a strong feeling KB was not a team guy and was becoming a problem. I base that on nothing other than the Cam thing, taking off routes, and the fact that their was a time he was scene as a first rate #1. On the flip side, I have no reason to believe Clay is equally a problem. Thus, I'm not sure he should be cut in the same way KB was cut.
Misterbluesky Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Augie said: What’s the deal with his contract? I’ve heard he’s tough to cut cap wise until after next season, but I really have no idea. I say they would keep him this year regardless, but he’s not worth the $$$ so I’d move on when it’s feasible to do so. 7 minutes ago, NewEra said: Agreed. Iirc cutting him will save 4.5 mill nest year but will still have a dead cap hit of about 4.5. I doubt we’re going to spend all of our money this offseason, so the 4:5 savings is negligible. I could be wrong, but I think next year is his last year under contract. If we cut him, we save 4.5 and have a dead cap hit of 4:5. I think. If that's the case,keep him next year as a #2 and pretend he's getting paid 4.5.If that makes any sense...
Buffalo Boy Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 No, but it wouldn’t disappoint me. I don’t hate Clay but his stay here has been one , protracted “ Meh”. 1
NewEra Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Misterbluesky said: If that's the case,keep him next year as a #2 and pretend he's getting paid 4.5.If that makes any sense... Like others have said....:he’s our best blocking TE, so I guess it makes sense. I can’t inahine anyone wanting this guy for anything other than that. No fire. Dude’s so monotonous 1
ColoradoBills Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Misterbluesky said: If that's the case,keep him next year as a #2 and pretend he's getting paid 4.5.If that makes any sense... Keeping him as a #2 may be the way Beane and McDermott go but they can't go into 2019 thinking he is a #1 TE. 2
Rochesterfan Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 32 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Poll is about do you think Beane and McD “would have”, not a poll of whether you personally think he should be. I have had an issue with Clays effort for several seasons. He is a guy who isn’t engaged on every play and head doesn’t always seem to be in the game. Underachiever is the best word that comes to mind. He has however been a solid blocker while here and that’s got value. They have already been giving Croom more and more snaps, and I have liked what I have seen from him at times. So makes me wonder what would have happened this week when they made cuts if Croom wasnt dealing with his injury. And no, not basing this just on a reaction to his drop. But, that play is kind of a slice of Clay as a Bill. He just didn’t use his head and play the ball well or the situation. He had tons of real estate while his QB was on opposite side of field running for his life and he didn’t do anything to help the QB out by coming back at all with all that room. Then didn’t judge the ball well leading to bad attempt to get back to ball and made that catch harder than it should be. And even then it’s a pass he has to catch as he got both hands on it in a typical scoop catch. Just left me wondering if Bills would have cut him to get Croom and Thomas more snaps and see what they have at TE position behind Clay. PS: For the record, I voted no as I think they would have kept him as I don’t think they want to lose his value as a blocker too. But was curious what others thought as he was already losing snaps to Croom. No I think they would have kept him because cutting him now would roll another 4.5 million into this year and they do not have the money for that and that would not include the rest of the cap hit for this year. I think based upon the contract next year is the first year they would save money cutting him. I believe he would cost 9 million next year and only 4.5 if they cut him. I don’t think they are happy with him, but the contract dictates many things including keeping him through this year. I do think they will look to trade him before the draft, but if not he may stick through training camp to see if they can get the last year or not. Make sure a replacement is available before opening the hole up. 2
BuffaloBillyG Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 Wouldn't shock me if he is kept until an upgrade is on the roster. Croom and Thomas have "potential". But until they sign a guy that can easily take over I feel like they will keep him. 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said: Poll is about do you think Beane and McD “would have”, not a poll of whether you personally think he should be. I have had an issue with Clays effort for several seasons. He is a guy who isn’t engaged on every play and head doesn’t always seem to be in the game. Underachiever is the best word that comes to mind. He has however been a solid blocker while here and that’s got value. They have already been giving Croom more and more snaps, and I have liked what I have seen from him at times. So makes me wonder what would have happened this week when they made cuts if Croom wasnt dealing with his injury. And no, not basing this just on a reaction to his drop. But, that play is kind of a slice of Clay as a Bill. He just didn’t use his head and play the ball well or the situation. He had tons of real estate while his QB was on opposite side of field running for his life and he didn’t do anything to help the QB out by coming back at all with all that room. Then didn’t judge the ball well leading to bad attempt to get back to ball and made that catch harder than it should be. And even then it’s a pass he has to catch as he got both hands on it in a typical scoop catch. Just left me wondering if Bills would have cut him to get Croom and Thomas more snaps and see what they have at TE position behind Clay. PS: For the record, I voted no as I think they would have kept him as I don’t think they want to lose his value as a blocker too. But was curious what others thought as he was already losing snaps to Croom. ......agree, especially blocking......just too bad his knees never came around.......how long is Croom out for?.............DNP today.....
offyourocker Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 Can they cut Clay during this season and move his dead cap to this year only?
GunnerBill Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, offyourocker said: Can they cut Clay during this season and move his dead cap to this year only? I don't think so.
Buddo Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 A couple of things, really. The cap situation means he's unlikely to be cut this year, regardless. Secondly, I don't believe he's a guy that they have problems with in respect of 'the process'. The questions to be answered, relate to his diminishing play, and his degenerating knees, which appear to keep him both from the field too often come Sundays, and pretty frequently from practise, even when fully 'fit'. I suppose in that respect, he's taking less reps from the likes of Croom, but his lack of availability, is a serious issue and would be a reason for me to part company with him, after the season. I suppose it's not beyond the realms of possibility the Bills could snag a low pick for him, ina trade, assuming they take the half salary hit, which it would cost them anyway, but I'd just let him go anyway, eventually. That's not to 'hate' on him, just that with the youth policy going forward on Offense, his inability to get on the field regularly, I think will hamper others development, including Allen, who should be able to expect a reliable receiving TE as an outlet.
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