Dopey Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 6 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Do we have the technology? Yes. Now we just need $6 million. Steve Austin. 1
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 5 hours ago, JohnC said: Both Josh and Edmunds are playing positions that are more difficult for a rookie to play than the slot corner position. It's like comparing someone trying to learn Chinese compared to someone trying to learn how to stack fruit at the grocery store. Of course the fruit stacker is going to be more accomplished at his job than the person trying to be a linguist. Just because Allen has outmatched your draft ranking with his performance that shouldn't be a reason for you to so begrudgingly and reluctantly acknowledge how he has performed. And it was to be expected that the 20 yr old Edmunds was going to play inconsistently in his rookie year. Overall, despite his inconsistency he has demonstrated that he is going to be a superb and instrumental player for us in the not too distant future. . I agree nickel is an easier position to play and a less critical one - I said that. It is why I tried to make the distinction between who played the best and who was the most impressive. Taron has played the best, Josh's adaptation at Quarterback has been more impressive. Tremaine Edmunds has been both less impressive and outperformed. He has struggled his rookie year. He makes some wow plays but his fundamentals have been dire. I am not worried - he made a big jump year 1 to 2 in college when it slowed down for him - I expect similar in the pros. My point was Taron has been our best performing rookie which he has. The eye in the sky don't lie. As for the idea that I have been begrudging or reluctant to praise Josh Allen, that is just not true. He is having a decent rookie season, injury allowing, and is ahead of where I expected he would be at this stage (regardless of who drafted him). I haven't declared he will be the best Bills QB of all time or that he will be an MVP candidate next year, sure. I am not one for wild hyperbole and to be honest that doesn't help anyone. I think he is playing well and is on the right path despite a pretty hopeless offense around him. We should be realistic about where we want him to get to in year 2. A Mitch Trubisky like Sophmore season would be a good step. 1
Chandler#81 Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 14 hours ago, GunnerBill said: The good news us we have seen enough from him to know the kid can play. He has been our best rookie without doubt. Get it done now, heal up and be ready for camp. He is going to be a big part of the 2019 season. WTH? Crusade or not, claiming a role player is our best rookie when 3 of our picks are starters, is mind boggling. Harrison may be ‘Horrible’, but that’s just a nickname. Edmunds & Allen are already locked in starters with Big Star potential.
BobbyC81 Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 18 hours ago, BurpleBull said: Damn, I voted him into the Pro Bowl just yesterday. And he was still listed today
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: WTH? Crusade or not, claiming a role player is our best rookie when 3 of our picks are starters, is mind boggling. Harrison may be ‘Horrible’, but that’s just a nickname. Edmunds & Allen are already locked in starters with Big Star potential. Actually two of our rookies are starters - Josh and Tremaine - the closest to a 3rd starter is Taron Johnson. Johnson has played more snaps that Harrison Phillips. We have been in nickel a lot. The only players on defense with more snaps than Johnson are Edmunds, Milano, Hyde, Poyer, White and Kyle. My view that Taron has been our best rookie isn't intended as a criticism of anyone else. It is simply what the tape shows. Taron Johnson has had an outstanding rookie season. Up until the last two games when the shoulder has clearly bothered him I'd argue he was one of the top 4 performers on the whole roster (Tre White, Lorax, Hughes and Johnson). I don't know why people are so angry with me for saying this. Our GM found someone who is already among the top players at his position in the league in the 4th round. That is good, surely? I think Josh has been good, I think Harrison has been good and while I think Edmunds has struggled there are enough wow plays that show his athleticism to be pretty excited about his potential longer term. Apparently people here would be happier if our 4th round rookie had played less well so that we could say Josh Allen has been our best rookie. It is a bizarre attitude to me. I know one is a nickel and one is a Quarterback.... but come on guys. Edited December 6, 2018 by GunnerBill
BurpleBull Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 1 hour ago, LittleJoeCartwright said: And he was still listed today Well, guess I'll give him another vote in that case.
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 8 hours ago, Dopey said: ...Now we just need $6 million... Ha, chump change. If need be, Terry will just drill another gas well.
JohnC Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: As for the idea that I have been begrudging or reluctant to praise Josh Allen, that is just not true. He is having a decent rookie season, injury allowing, and is ahead of where I expected he would be at this stage (regardless of who drafted him). I haven't declared he will be the best Bills QB of all time or that he will be an MVP candidate next year, sure. I am not one for wild hyperbole and to be honest that doesn't help anyone. I think he is playing well and is on the right path despite a pretty hopeless offense around him. We should be realistic about where we want him to get to in year 2. A Mitch Trubisky like Sophmore season would be a good step. I'm relating my response to how you rated Allen in the draft as a third round talent. That is the source of our divergence. All the franchises that were seriously vying for a qb in the last draft had him ranked in the first round. You steadfastly held to your third round evaluation. My view is that he is playing as a first round prospect who is going through the typical rookie struggles while clearly demonstrating at least intermittently that he is very likely be a franchise qb.
CommonCents Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 18 hours ago, Doc said: They should shut down Trent Murphy as well. Murphy is in a different situation. They may want to see something from him so they can better decide on his contract next season.
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 19 minutes ago, JohnC said: I'm relating my response to how you rated Allen in the draft as a third round talent. That is the source of our divergence. All the franchises that were seriously vying for a qb in the last draft had him ranked in the first round. You steadfastly held to your third round evaluation. My view is that he is playing as a first round prospect who is going through the typical rookie struggles while clearly demonstrating at least intermittently that he is very likely be a franchise qb. I agree. He is playing like a first round prospect going through some growing pains. He is ahead of where I thought he would be. My opinion of Josh Allen at the draft is left at the draft. What I am evaluating him on now is not on Wyoming it is on what he puts on the field for the Buffalo Bills. You accused me of being "begrudging" and "reluctant" to praise Josh Allen. I haven't been at all. I've given an honest view on him at every stage. I hold steadfastly to my views at draft time because it is based on what I have seen on their college tape - others will see different things and respond accordingly - that is fine. People who hold steadfastly onto their draft day evaluation after a player starts playing in the NFL are fools. I am no fool. Josh is having a decent rookie year. I don't go as far as "demonstrating that he is very likely a franchise QB" to me that is an exaggeration on what he has shown, but he has been encouraging and I have said that.
JohnC Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 39 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: I agree. He is playing like a first round prospect going through some growing pains. He is ahead of where I thought he would be. My opinion of Josh Allen at the draft is left at the draft. What I am evaluating him on now is not on Wyoming it is on what he puts on the field for the Buffalo Bills. You accused me of being "begrudging" and "reluctant" to praise Josh Allen. I haven't been at all. I've given an honest view on him at every stage. I hold steadfastly to my views at draft time because it is based on what I have seen on their college tape - others will see different things and respond accordingly - that is fine. People who hold steadfastly onto their draft day evaluation after a player starts playing in the NFL are fools. I am no fool. Josh is having a decent rookie year. I don't go as far as "demonstrating that he is very likely a franchise QB" to me that is an exaggeration on what he has shown, but he has been encouraging and I have said that. I don't want to come off as a scold or an obnoxious "I told you so" haranguing pest. My complaint with your assessment of Allen is not so much about Allen as it is with assessing qb prospects in general. Most often your views on the other positions are sound. But I just found your position on Allen to be uncharacteristically far off. As I stated before all the four teams that were expending a lot of effort and resources in scouting qbs rated Josh as a high end first round value. Your third round ranking of Allen was clearly an outlier position. You took a similar stance with Mahomes while KC and Reid held a much different view of him. The issue that I'm addressing is that maybe you are too rigorous in evaluating the fundamental skills of the raw college players instead of giving more weight to the pro potential of the raw talents of the qb prospects. You didn't seem to do that with Allen or Mahomes while many others in the scouting profession seemed to do it. What I'm trying to do is cajole you into reassessing how you evaluate qb prospects. Sometimes being steadfast for the sake of being steadfast puts you in a room behind a locked door. I'm trying to encourage you to slightly open the door and see what else is out there. Just gently offering an option. .
GunnerBill Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, JohnC said: I don't want to come off as a scold or an obnoxious "I told you so" haranguing pest. My complaint with your assessment of Allen is not so much about Allen as it is with assessing qb prospects in general. Most often your views on the other positions are sound. But I just found your position on Allen to be uncharacteristically far off. As I stated before all the four teams that were expending a lot of effort and resources in scouting qbs rated Josh as a high end first round value. Your third round ranking of Allen was clearly an outlier position. You took a similar stance with Mahomes while KC and Reid held a much different view of him. The issue that I'm addressing is that maybe you are too rigorous in evaluating the fundamental skills of the raw college players instead of giving more weight to the pro potential of the raw talents of the qb prospects. You didn't seem to do that with Allen or Mahomes while many others in the scouting profession seemed to do it. What I'm trying to do is cajole you into reassessing how you evaluate qb prospects. Sometimes being steadfast for the sake of being steadfast puts you in a room behind a locked door. I'm trying to encourage you to slightly open the door and see what else is out there. Just gently offering an option. . I evaluate floors as much as ceilings. If I am going to miss on guys they will always be the more boom or bust types. I am not steadfast for the sake of being steadfast.
John from Riverside Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: I agree nickel is an easier position to play and a less critical one - I said that. It is why I tried to make the distinction between who played the best and who was the most impressive. Taron has played the best, Josh's adaptation at Quarterback has been more impressive. Tremaine Edmunds has been both less impressive and outperformed. He has struggled his rookie year. He makes some wow plays but his fundamentals have been dire. I am not worried - he made a big jump year 1 to 2 in college when it slowed down for him - I expect similar in the pros. My point was Taron has been our best performing rookie which he has. The eye in the sky don't lie. As for the idea that I have been begrudging or reluctant to praise Josh Allen, that is just not true. He is having a decent rookie season, injury allowing, and is ahead of where I expected he would be at this stage (regardless of who drafted him). I haven't declared he will be the best Bills QB of all time or that he will be an MVP candidate next year, sure. I am not one for wild hyperbole and to be honest that doesn't help anyone. I think he is playing well and is on the right path despite a pretty hopeless offense around him. We should be realistic about where we want him to get to in year 2. A Mitch Trubisky like Sophmore season would be a good step. I have no problem with Gunner's opinion's on Josh Allen Its a journey.....we drafted a extremely raw QB with enormous upside....he is playing better then most expected in his first year....he has the work ethic so he should get better and he plays with crap so that will also make him look better. He was my pick at the draft....I have stuck by him while many laughed at me for doing so.....but that is ok everyone is entitled to their opinions. He isnt there yet....but you get glimpses of what he could become. 1
dabills21 Posted December 6, 2018 Posted December 6, 2018 8 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Actually two of our rookies are starters - Josh and Tremaine - the closest to a 3rd starter is Taron Johnson. Johnson has played more snaps that Harrison Phillips. We have been in nickel a lot. The only players on defense with more snaps than Johnson are Edmunds, Milano, Hyde, Poyer, White and Kyle. My view that Taron has been our best rookie isn't intended as a criticism of anyone else. It is simply what the tape shows. Taron Johnson has had an outstanding rookie season. Up until the last two games when the shoulder has clearly bothered him I'd argue he was one of the top 4 performers on the whole roster (Tre White, Lorax, Hughes and Johnson). I don't know why people are so angry with me for saying this. Our GM found someone who is already among the top players at his position in the league in the 4th round. That is good, surely? I think Josh has been good, I think Harrison has been good and while I think Edmunds has struggled there are enough wow plays that show his athleticism to be pretty excited about his potential longer term. Apparently people here would be happier if our 4th round rookie had played less well so that we could say Josh Allen has been our best rookie. It is a bizarre attitude to me. I know one is a nickel and one is a Quarterback.... but come on guys. Does Teller not count?
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