WR Technique Q - Overthrow to Foster

[bills11]

2 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Pretty condescending post thrown at you. I agree with that point. But when Josh is throwing such a low arc it makes it harder for the WR to do what you say. He puts air in the ball and goes a bit longer on it.. it's a slower play albeit but it's easier for the QB and WRs to recognize that acceleration to where the ball is going to go no?

 

I don't know my Xs and O's like you do.. just an observance so correct me if I'm wrong. But Phillip Rivers throws throws these comical floaters that work so well. I have to imaging JA and Foster would be better off floating it up there focusing on the completion even if it doesn't net a home run.

 

 

When the man is beat, he's beat. Phillip understands when he arcs it, the margin for error is significantly reduced and he's more concerned with getting the completion first and letting the WR do what your saying with an easier level of difficulty

 

 

Agreed pretty much how I saw it..pass needs more air will come with more chemistry and reps 

[JimmyNoodles]

1 hour ago, Trogdor said:

Yeah not everything needs to be a bullet is the dead horse around here. I've seen some posters suggest they teach receivers to catch his passes vs teach him some touch and I don't think that is going to work. They need these to start connecting to be legitimate deep threat.

I think Allen has made some progress throwing with less velocity.  Sitting for a few games may have helped.  He saw Barkley throw soft balls and get completions.  With that said, I think Allen has some feel for putting touch on the ball.  Even going back to his Senior Bowl highlights...he threw some nice balls with touch.  I think some of it his mindset.  He sees that Foster play and thinks "TD" and really does more than needed  Just a little quicker recognition/reaction will help too.  He'll learn.  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

17 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

That is a difficult question.... when people talk about quarterbacks and they talk about “it” factor , it is almost the same with a Deep threat WR

 

all the great deep threats have an “it” factor... and what most coaches and scouts see as the “it” factor is the ability of the receiver to kick into “another gear” when the ball is in the air

 

a natural phenomena... 

 

desean jackson , Sammy Watkins, Ty Hilton,  tyreek Hill etc all have a natural ability to kick it into overdrive when the ball is in the air deep down field... add an extra 2-5 mph and track it down 

 

Foster sometimes loses a step when he starts tracking... he needs to keep that extra gear and find it when the ball goes up... it’s something he is really inconsistent at

 

He can set up a nice route and beat his man... but when the ball is up 50-60 yards downfield he loses a step

 

He seems to track over his shoulder the whole time which slows him down . He needs to find the ball in the air... then sprint to the spot and then locate and make a play

 

he finds the ball, and then tries tracking it while running which slows him down a tad... he needs to react and just fly 

Sammy Watkins should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Jackson, Hilton or Hill. 

 

Otherwise I agree with all of this. 

 

I was taught to not slow down. Number one is to keep running the entire time, because when the ball is on the way down, there is not enough time to make up the distance if you slowed down earlier in the route.

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Sammy Watkins should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Jackson, Hilton or Hill. 

 

Otherwise I agree with all of this. 

 

I was taught to not slow down. Number one is to keep running the entire time, because when the ball is on the way down, there is not enough time to make up the distance if you slowed down earlier in the route.

That is completely fair. He is no where near the receiver of those guys

 

but he has averaged almost 20ypc on a season before . Led the league in that category so he was a good deep threat, albeit  didn’t go to the dirty areas

[CommonCents]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That is completely fair. He is no where near the receiver of those guys

 

but he has averaged almost 20ypc on a season before . Led the league in that category so he was a good deep threat, albeit  didn’t go to the dirty areas

Lockett/Wilson have a perfect QBR when he is targeted over 20 yards. Only one in the league. Also think he has the most catches over 20 or 30 yards IIRC. If a guy like Foster is trying to “learn” how to track a ball he should workout with Lockett.

 

TBH I doubt anyone at the NFL is going to totally revamp the way they track a ball. Foster’s ceiling is Ted Gunn and the Bills should be ok with that for what they have invested. 

[Buffalo716]

14 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Lockett/Wilson have a perfect QBR when he is targeted over 20 yards. Only one in the league. Also think he has the most catches over 20 or 30 yards IIRC. If a guy like Foster is trying to “learn” how to track a ball he should workout with Lockett.

 

TBH I doubt anyone at the NFL is going to totally revamp the way they track a ball. Foster’s ceiling is Ted Gunn and the Bills should be ok with that for what they have invested. 

I agree. I missed Lockett and he is absolutely deadly and can track a deep ball 

[cd1]

22 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Play is 1st & 10 from the Buff 35, 7:56 in the 4th.

 

Most people consider this an overthrow by Allen. 

 

I have a WR technique question for those of you who played WR or have scouted or coached WR.

 

So the start of the route is beautiful for Foster.  Does a great job "selling" the CB, jukes him out of his shorts and blows by him inside.

But at about the Phins 45 yd line, he starts looking back over his L shoulder and keeps looking back, which must inevitably slow him down. 

It's not until he gets to the 20 yd line that he looks ahead and seems to accelerate. 

 

The ball looks to be a yard or so past his outstretched hands.

 

Questions are:

1) is this a route mismatch between Foster and Allen?  Does Foster think the ball is gonna be an intermediate throw and that's why he starts looking for the ball soon as he beats his man?

2) or is this a technique flaw on a deep route - where Foster should not be looking back, he should be running full-out for longer than he is?

3) or maybe it's a perfect route by Foster and an overthrow by Allen?  But I don't recall having seen a WR on a deep route looking over his shoulder for 25 yds instead of "running like hell"

 

Thoughts?

 

Week one against the Panthers - Josh heaves one 65 yards to Foster and Foster just missed (exact same scenario) at the 5 yard line.  Foster started looking over his shoulder at the 20 yard line.  Even Steve Tasker remarked that he should never have been running that far looking over his shoulder.

[leonbus23]

19 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

That is a difficult question.... when people talk about quarterbacks and they talk about “it” factor , it is almost the same with a Deep threat WR

 

all the great deep threats have an “it” factor... and what most coaches and scouts see as the “it” factor is the ability of the receiver to kick into “another gear” when the ball is in the air

 

a natural phenomena... 

 

desean jackson , Sammy Watkins, Ty Hilton,  tyreek Hill etc all have a natural ability to kick it into overdrive when the ball is in the air deep down field... add an extra 2-5 mph and track it down 

 

Foster sometimes loses a step when he starts tracking... he needs to keep that extra gear and find it when the ball goes up... it’s something he is really inconsistent at

 

He can set up a nice route and beat his man... but when the ball is up 50-60 yards downfield he loses a step

 

He seems to track over his shoulder the whole time which slows him down . He needs to find the ball in the air... then sprint to the spot and then locate and make a play

 

he finds the ball, and then tries tracking it while running which slows him down a tad... he needs to react and just fly 

 

Exactly. Cunningham to Moss, for example. 

[Westside Madness]

I want to applaud this thread. Excellent topic, several people providing opinions and insight related to the topic. I feel better educated on QB/WR mechanics for having read it.

[RocCityRoller]

21 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

Thoughts are that there is no 60+ yard throws that are perfectly accurate 100% of the time.

 

Those are really low percentage plays. I think both did pretty good and it was close. Sometimes they will catch people and sometimes itll be a near miss.

 

At least he ran fast, got separation and dove for it.

 

More than we can say for the bums just cut.

 

With a full off season, the timing will improve.

[PlayoffsPlease]

18 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Allen needs to learn how to drop those in the bucket. He just doesn't have that timing down yet. He also did this in college all the time. The zones that Allen is throwing to down the field are much larger right now when compared to the great deep ball throwers in the game today, and some of them don't have anywhere near the arm that he has. In general Allen has a serious flaw, maybe his biggest, with gauging power. You see it on the short throws all the time, and I think it's also happening here. If the kid learns a little touch, he'll be deadly. 

"All the time"     Can you venture to guess how many times this actually happened. 

[BullBuchanan]

 

2 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

"All the time"     Can you venture to guess how many times this actually happened. 

 

Well, there was this time...

 

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/956228021945618437

[Warcodered]

27 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

 

Well, there was this time...

 

https://twitter.com/NickiJhabvala/status/956228021945618437

I wonder if you can find that video of Allen and the other QBs throwing at that tire...or that Soul and Science one where they were throwing at the goalpost.

[greeneblitz]

I'm just happy we finally have a QB with the balls to make those throws even if he doesn't connect, how many times I've seen great QB make those throws seemingly only to get a pass interference call, as long as Allen puts it where only his guy has a chance to get it, I'm perfectly fine with overthrows.

[JimmyNoodles]

Let's revisit this on today's TD to Foster to show that, yes, Allen is learning.  Foster breaks wide open on a deep slant and Allen lays the ball out there instead of the bullet throw.  Foster has no difficulty tracking and adjusting.  Allen also laid one up for Croom.  In fact, I think he did it a lot today.  At least, that was my impression.  I thought he played his best game throwing the ball today and they made him throw.  Lions contained him on the ground.