Bing Bong Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 9 hours ago, JimmyNoodles said: Once the receiver breaks open he's going to look for the ball. Best thing QBs can do with single coverage is put air under the ball and let the receiver adjust to it. Allen can throw that a little earlier and a little easier. He's learning that most throws don't have to be rockets. That was my impression. To someones point earlier, sure, Foster didn't accelerate like the best in the game.. but Allen just didn't arc the ball for Foster to have more time to be able to kick it into that gear. Would have been great if he was dead accurate: ball gets to him faster. But lofting the ball higher and a little farther makes it so much easier for both QB and WR.. even if it slows the play down so that it's not a TD, focus on getting the catch.
hemma Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 10 to 12 mph trailing wind combined with 84 temp. Science. Embrace it.
JimmyNoodles Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 40 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: That was my impression. To someones point earlier, sure, Foster didn't accelerate like the best in the game.. but Allen just didn't arc the ball for Foster to have more time to be able to kick it into that gear. Would have been great if he was dead accurate: ball gets to him faster. But lofting the ball higher and a little farther makes it so much easier for both QB and WR.. even if it slows the play down so that it's not a TD, focus on getting the catch. This. That ball doesn't have to be perfect with single coverage and the man beat. It could be a little inside, outside, or even slightly short as long as the wr can adjust. The receiver has a huge advantage here for a catch or a PI penalty. Focus on the catch.
Bing Bong Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, JimmyNoodles said: This. That ball doesn't have to be perfect with single coverage and the man beat. It could be a little inside, outside, or even slightly short as long as the wr can adjust. The receiver has a huge advantage here for a catch or a PI penalty. Focus on the catch. Phillip Rivers is the king of those high floaters for big completions.. to the point it looked crazy how well it worked for him.
1ManRaid Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: all the great deep threats have an “it” factor... and what most coaches and scouts see as the “it” factor is the ability of the receiver to kick into “another gear” when the ball is in the air a natural phenomena... desean jackson , Sammy Watkins, Ty Hilton, tyreek Hill etc all have a natural ability to kick it into overdrive when the ball is in the air deep down field... add an extra 2-5 mph and track it down Sorry, but human bodies aren't built like that. You know they track the running speeds of players these days, don't you? The fastest players in the league are topping out at 22 mph, so are you claiming the normal top speed for a human is only 17 mph and they are activating some special superhuman ability available only to a select few NFL players to burst to 22 mph? I think I would have heard of this mutant ability by now. Running at one speed and then changing speeds to throw off a defender or to catch up to an overthrown ball WHEN NOT ALREADY AT TOP SPEED is not some special "it factor", every receiver does it. Some players are just faster or have the stamina to maintain their top speed longer than others. Lol seriously if you have to use quotations and vague nebulous terms like it factor, another gear/overdrive, and natural phenomenon then you're just talking out of your ass and don't have an actual point. There is no evidence of these players suddenly bursting an extra 5 mph downfield, they are just accelerating faster than average, to a higher than average top speed than the defender. A magic ability like that would actually be more useful to hit gaps at the LOS and get open in the first place. 2 hours ago, Commonsense said: Best deep ball tracker in the league is Lockett. I have seen him slow down on long passes just so he can accelerate again and get that last second separation so he can avoid being tackled. May be what the other guy I quoted was actually seeing, rather than some magic nitro button.
Buffalo716 Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said: Sorry, but human bodies aren't built like that. You know they track the running speeds of players these days, don't you? The fastest players in the league are topping out at 22 mph, so are you claiming the normal top speed for a human is only 17 mph and they are activating some special superhuman ability available only to a select few NFL players to burst to 22 mph? I think I would have heard of this mutant ability by now. Running at one speed and then changing speeds to throw off a defender or to catch up to an overthrown ball WHEN NOT ALREADY AT TOP SPEED is not some special "it factor", every receiver does it. Some players are just faster or have the stamina to maintain their top speed longer than others. Lol seriously if you have to use quotations and vague nebulous terms like it factor, another gear/overdrive, and natural phenomenon then you're just talking out of your ass and don't have an actual point. There is no evidence of these players suddenly bursting an extra 5 mph downfield, they are just accelerating faster than average, to a higher than average top speed than the defender. A magic ability like that would actually be more useful to hit gaps at the LOS and get open in the first place. May be what the other guy I quoted was actually seeing, rather than some magic nitro button. No I’m saying most WRs keep a gear until the ball is in the air. They do not run full speed during the route they reach full speed once the ball is in the air... you run a go route at 85-90% and when the ball flies you kick into that last 10%... and not all WRs can do this , it is natural i coached and scouted and played D1 ball. I know for a fact the best deep ball receivers accelerate when the ball is in the air they don’t lose speed they gain it Edited December 5, 2018 by Buffalo716
Herc11 Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 I've played WR (just high school) as well as outfield in softball. Not only do you not want to watch the ball the entire time, you don't put your hands/glove out to early either, as both will slow you down. Tracking a ball that's directly behind you and making that over the shoulder catch is one of the most difficult catches to make. This is because you can typically follow the ball until a certain point where it enters a blind spot, which is right before it hits your hands. The football helmet usually makes the blind spot even worse. So you have to have the timing to reach out at the perfect time to make the catch. Some people are naturally able to glance at the ball when its first thrown/hit and able to track it immediately. So the idea is, see the ball and make that determination immediately and get "on your horse" to the get to the spot. Foster ideally would have looked back after his break to see Josh throw it and then ran to the spot. As he got closer he could then look back to begin making his adjustment if he needs to slow or is able to run through it. On this pass I think it was a combo of an over throw and running with his head turned too long. He had his man beat from the break, so Josh could have thrown it a second earlier and it wouldn't of needed to be such a long throw. Or possibly put more air on the ball to allow the WR more adjustment time. Losman's bombs to Evans were a perfect example of putting plenty of air under them which allowed Lee to adjust and run through the catch.
Nextmanup Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: No I’m saying most WRs keep a gear until the ball is in the air. They do not run full speed during the route they reach full speed once the ball is in the air... you run a go route at 85-90% and when the ball flies you kick into that last 10% i coached and scouted and played D1 ball. I know for a fact the best deep ball receivers accelerate when the ball is in the air they don’t lose speed they gain it You can see that this is true on many long throws; just watch the WR. More often than not, if the WR is going to get to the point where the ball is going to come down, he needs to accelerate, not slow down. As he reads the ball in flight and realizes that, he accelerates.
Bing Bong Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: No I’m saying most WRs keep a gear until the ball is in the air. They do not run full speed during the route they reach full speed once the ball is in the air... you run a go route at 85-90% and when the ball flies you kick into that last 10% i coached and scouted and played D1 ball. I know for a fact the best deep ball receivers accelerate when the ball is in the air they don’t lose speed they gain it Pretty condescending post thrown at you. I agree with that point. But when Josh is throwing such a low arc it makes it harder for the WR to do what you say. He puts air in the ball and goes a bit longer on it.. it's a slower play albeit but it's easier for the QB and WRs to recognize that acceleration to where the ball is going to go no? I don't know my Xs and O's like you do.. just an observance so correct me if I'm wrong. But Phillip Rivers throws throws these comical floaters that work so well. I have to imaging JA and Foster would be better off floating it up there focusing on the completion even if it doesn't net a home run. When the man is beat, he's beat. Phillip understands when he arcs it, the margin for error is significantly reduced and he's more concerned with getting the completion first and letting the WR do what your saying with an easier level of difficulty Edited December 5, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks
Buffalo716 Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Pretty condescending post thrown at you. I agree with that point. But when Josh is throwing such a low arc it makes it harder for the WR to do what you say. He puts air in the ball and goes a bit longer on it.. it's a slower play albeit but it's easier for the QB and WRs to recognize that acceleration to where the ball is going to go no? I don't know my Xs and O's like you do.. just an observance so correct me if I'm wrong. But Phillip Rivers throws throws these comical floaters that work so well. I have to imaging JA and Foster would be better off floating it up there focusing on the completion even if it doesn't net a home run. When the WR is beat, he's beat. Phillip understands when he arcs it, the margin for error is significantly reduced and he's more concerned with getting the completion first and letting the WR do what your saying with an easier level of difficulty You are absolutely right . A pass on a frozen rope significantly reduces your margin of error to where timing needs to be perfect. a high arcing throw, while takes more time, also give the WR the ability to track the ball and accelerate to it Namath was awesome at dropping it out if the sky. Allen can learn... I think that ball to Foster did have more trajectory than normal but That is something that can definitely be improved over the offseason 1
Bing Bong Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: You are absolutely right . A pass on a frozen rope significantly reduces your margin of error to where timing needs to be perfect. a high arcing throw, while takes more time, also give the WR the ability to track the ball and accelerate to it Namath was awesome at dropping it out if the sky. Allen can learn... I think that ball to Foster did have more trajectory than normal but That is something that can definitely be improved over the offseason Also why I didn't exactly love the first half hail Mary as well. We all know Allen has the arm, hail Mary's don't have nearly the shot Rodgers gets with it because Quarterbacks with weaker arms can't throw that far and straight up lob it so your tall recievers have a better chance of finding and getting to the ball in time to play jump ball (which they have an advantage over smaller CBs). Allen can certainly do that. Again, same premise sort of.. some players he can learn from as he develops.
tcampbell104 Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 3 hours ago, thebandit27 said: He missed him...not by much, but yeah, that's a miss. The ball needed to either come out earlier or have more air under it. Could an elite deep-ball tracker like Hill, Hilton, or Watkins make that play? Probably, but Foster isn't that guy, so his QB needs to throw a better ball. It's not like the Clay play where any pass catcher should have that. as josh and his receivers get more comfortable with each other they will get on the same page (hopefully) 1
Bing Bong Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, vincec said: Agree. It’s amazing how nothing was actually his fault in this game. overthrow Foster... bad route by Foster underthrow Clay... drop by Clay behind Jones over the middle for TD... Jones ran the wrong route interception over the middle... bad route by Benjamin Apparently he played a perfect game. The greatest rookie QB ever. His biggest critic needs to be his Quarterback coach. He played well. But not perfect. I simply try to find where he can improve on these plays. I certainly don't want Allen apologists on this board coaching him. "Eh not your fault, Foster didn't run fast enough". There's ALWAYS room for improvement in JA's game and that's not being negative about his performance it's hoping he improves on these small details so it's no longer everybody else's fault.. it can be his great play in a few years that leaves no one to blame save for a blatant drop. 2 minutes ago, tcampbell104 said: as josh and his receivers get more comfortable with each other they will get on the same page (hopefully) Yep. Chemistry is huge. That play with Zay open in the end zone. Was simply JA going by the play design not knowing where Zay wanted it lead to him at that specific cover 0 man point in the play with his guy beat. He didn't know how far behind his man was and certainly didn't want to stop and not be open if he had a better man covering him. Fitz to Stevie was a perfect example of chemistry working out when Fitz got a knack for where Stevie wanted to go and expected the ball. Edited December 5, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks
Buffalo716 Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 1 minute ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Also why I didn't exactly love the first half hail Mary as well. We all know Allen has the arm, hail Mary's don't have nearly the shot Rodgers gets with it because Quarterbacks with weaker arms can't throw that far and straight up lob it so your tall recievers have a better chance of finding and getting to the ball in time to play jump ball (which they have an advantage over smaller CBs). Allen can certainly do that. Again, same premise sort of.. some players he can learn from as he develops. Of course. Allen is really an enigma in everyway He is very green- not many starts at Wyoming, late bloomer (didn’t attend all the passing camps in California circuit), small conference and he would have tremendously benefited from sitting behind a vet... BUT People take that last sentence as he is very raw and not NFL ready.. BUT his big time athleticism and knack for the big play has bypassed the sitting period he has a host of things to clean up like lower body mechanics, and going through his progressions and learning to play for another down but his natural athleticism and escapability and big time arm , plus his heart has already earned him a spot as QB1 getting baptized by fire and coming out unscathed will do wonders for his career
DCOrange Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 As others have mentioned, when the ball is traveling that much distance, it's rarely going to be perfect. A little less from Allen and Foster gets his hands on it. I also think Foster could have taken a slightly better angle to potentially get to that ball as well; had he adjusted and moved a little more towards his outside shoulder, he essentially would have given himself slightly more time to make up the distance on the throw (which ended up coming down on his outside should anyways).
Bing Bong Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Of course. Allen is really an enigma in everyway He is very green- not many starts at Wyoming, late bloomer (didn’t attend all the passing camps in California circuit), small conference and he would have tremendously benefited from sitting behind a vet... BUT People take that last sentence as he is very raw and not NFL ready.. BUT his big time athleticism and knack for the big play has bypassed the sitting period he has a host of things to clean up like lower body mechanics, and going through his progressions and learning to play for another down but his natural athleticism and escapability and big time arm , plus his heart has already earned him a spot as QB1 getting baptized by fire and coming out unscathed will do wonders for his career That's what I wanted. Him getting thrown to the fire and exceeding expectations is all the more reason to know he has the confidence and makes no excuses, doesn't feel sorry for himself. I said all year I'm perfectly fine with throwing him to the fire to find out his gumption. I don't believe in "David Carr"ing a QB. Allen has the exact intangibles I look for.
JimmyNoodles Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 1 hour ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said: Pretty condescending post thrown at you. I agree with that point. But when Josh is throwing such a low arc it makes it harder for the WR to do what you say. He puts air in the ball and goes a bit longer on it.. it's a slower play albeit but it's easier for the QB and WRs to recognize that acceleration to where the ball is going to go no? I don't know my Xs and O's like you do.. just an observance so correct me if I'm wrong. But Phillip Rivers throws throws these comical floaters that work so well. I have to imaging JA and Foster would be better off floating it up there focusing on the completion even if it doesn't net a home run. When the man is beat, he's beat. Phillip understands when he arcs it, the margin for error is significantly reduced and he's more concerned with getting the completion first and letting the WR do what your saying with an easier level of difficulty Good video. You can see that Rivers recognizes and throws quickly. He takes something off the ball and the receiver slows slightly to make the catch and then regains speed after he has the ball. The one thing you don't want to do is overthrow. Give your guy a chance. 1
Bing Bong Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, JimmyNoodles said: Good video. You can see that Rivers recognizes and throws quickly. He takes something off the ball and the receiver slows slightly to make the catch and then regains speed after he has the ball. The one thing you don't want to do is overthrow. Give your guy a chance. right? He wasn't even dead on accurate. Didn't need to be. You throw an arc like that and as long as you have the distance the WR has a cakewalk finding the ball. That play simply looks like a decision by Rivers to forgoe the difficult strike to make it easier for everybody (himself included) to throw and catch. He's got some even more exaggerated comical floaters for 40-50 yard longballs, they're hard to find on youtube but I remember when many were making fun of him for that. But it works so dang well. Edited December 5, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks
Trogdor Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 Yeah not everything needs to be a bullet is the dead horse around here. I've seen some posters suggest they teach receivers to catch his passes vs teach him some touch and I don't think that is going to work. They need these to start connecting to be legitimate deep threat.
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