Trent Murphy Cap Hit

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

My bad, I read the wrong column.  

 

I suppose part of this is I just don't trust a Pats DE.  Jones was good, but aside from that, how many go on to play well?  Its such a scheme defense. Maybe I'm still jaded by Anderson?  

 

The key to not getting in salary cap hell is evaluating how much of an upgrade you get for your dollars.  Whatever we pay Flowers, which will be more than we pay Murphy, you will have to tack on the extra $5 million you paid to cut Murphy.  Does he get you enough additional value?  I have a hard time believing that.  But that is also because I think Murphy is a really good player when he is on the field.  I just don't think his injury problems with the Bills have been that bad.  Most if it has to do with the narrative that followed him.  If he gets hurt again this year, maybe.  Otherwise, I am just as comfortable sticking with him.  

Fair.  We just see it differently. Frazier just said that Murphy still isn’t 100 percent, some of this stuff goes back to TC. He has been on and off the field and I place no value on guys like that. If Murphy was healthy and playing at 100 percent for the majority of the season I don’t even think this would be a discussion. 

 

He hasn’t been able to stay on the field and when he has been on the field he has looked pretty mediocre. 

[Rc2catch]

29 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Players like Clay and Murphy just destroy a teams ability to improve and move forward. Mostly injured and way overpaid based on their production. I don't have the answer on what to do with these 2 based on the huge cap hit? But it sure would be nice to replace them both with promising healthy rookies. 

The solution has already been happening. You bring in youth or inexperienced players at that position and challenge them to win the job. If clay or Murphy lose their job oh well, but even while expensive at least they’re depth. You cut them and you risk having even worse depth. 

Lots of people thought Lawson was gone in preseason rather traded or cut, good thing he wasn’t as he’s been a good player this season. 

If we sign or draft defensive ends or tight ends it doesn’t mean you have to get rid of veterans with bigger contracts, you only do that when you need the cap space. They can stay on as depth/mentor type players who can still step in and play some when there’s injuries. 

I’m pretty confident beane will sign talent even if it’s a position we seem ok at and he can get value 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

13 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Fair.  We just see it differently. Frazier just said that Murphy still isn’t 100 percent, some of this stuff goes back to TC. He has been on and off the field and I place no value on guys like that. If Murphy was healthy and playing at 100 percent for the majority of the season I don’t even think this would be a discussion. 

 

He hasn’t been able to stay on the field and when he has been on the field he has looked pretty mediocre. 

 

For what its worth, if we added Flowers, I would now feel pretty excited about it.  Before, I would have thought it was a bad idea. You made some good arguments. 

[John from Riverside]

I am Meh in either direction right now......if we can get better at the position we should do it.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Actually, I honestly believe that more than a year after an injury like his these guys normally get better.

 

I am fine in seeing what he can do for us next year.

[TheBeaneBandit]

2 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

Actually, I honestly believe that more than a year after an injury like his these guys normally get better.

 

I am fine in seeing what he can do for us next year.

Perfectly said

[dollars 2 donuts]

6 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Perfectly said

 

Thanks, Beane.

 

Honestly, though, haven't we seen that?

 

I remember someone a while back saying that the first time they come back they sort of favor the knee and that it takes some playing time for them to get "the balance back".

 

EDIT: and also to really get the strength and stability back.

Edited December 4, 2018 by dollars 2 donuts

[TheBeaneBandit]

31 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said:

 

Thanks, Beane.

 

Honestly, though, haven't we seen that?

 

I remember someone a while back saying that the first time they come back they sort of favor the knee and that it takes some playing time for them to get "the balance back".

 

EDIT: and also to really get the strength and stability back.

Yes, very common with that injury

[JohnC]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It is $3.5m dead cap to get out after this year, but it is $8.5m to stay tied in. I think it is a no brainer to cut him. His production isn't worth the extra $5m, he has actually been often times a 4th DE behind Hughes, Lawson and Lorax (who plays there generally on pass downs). Add to that we need to draft a young DE early in the 2019 draft - certainly in the first 3 rounds, because Lawson while a fine player isn't a big pressure guy and Hughes will be 31 when next season begins and Lorax will be 36. The wall could come quickly for them and if you are left then with Murphy and Lawson you are in trouble. Dump Murphy, save the cash and take advantage of this excellent class of edge rushers to find a guy you can plug in on your line for the next 10 years.

I doubt that McBeane are going to jettison Murphy. He fits their profile in the type of players he wants on their roster. The player they got is exactly the player they sought and signed last year. He has been plagued with injuries that has curtailed his production but as of late he has played to the level that he was expected to play at. 

 

Both Murphy and Lawson are similar in that neither is a dynamic pass rusher. Rotating them and sometimes moving Lawson or Murphy to the interior in pass rushing situations can add to their cost/benefit. If this team wants to add a more dynamic rusher to the mix then McBeane will have to do it with a high pick in this draft. 

 

Not every player is going to be in the elite category. Having solid players is not something to lament about; it is something to be happy about. 

[Mark80]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

It is $3.5m dead cap to get out after this year, but it is $8.5m to stay tied in. I think it is a no brainer to cut him. His production isn't worth the extra $5m, he has actually been often times a 4th DE behind Hughes, Lawson and Lorax (who plays there generally on pass downs). Add to that we need to draft a young DE early in the 2019 draft - certainly in the first 3 rounds, because Lawson while a fine player isn't a big pressure guy and Hughes will be 31 when next season begins and Lorax will be 36. The wall could come quickly for them and if you are left then with Murphy and Lawson you are in trouble. Dump Murphy, save the cash and take advantage of this excellent class of edge rushers to find a guy you can plug in on your line for the next 10 years.

 

When you have $90M in cap space and extra $5M doesn't mean anything.  He played great last game too and you got a glimpse of the impact he can have when healthy.  I just don't see how you are going to spend that extra $5M and make a better impact, so what's the point?

[Joeziehmer]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I doubt that McBeane are going to jettison Murphy. He fits their profile in the type of players he wants on their roster. The player they got is exactly the player they sought and signed last year. He has been plagued with injuries that has curtailed his production but as of late he has played to the level that he was expected to play at. 

 

Both Murphy and Lawson are similar in that neither is a dynamic pass rusher. Rotating them and sometimes moving Lawson or Murphy to the interior in pass rushing situations can add to their cost/benefit. If this team wants to add a more dynamic rusher to the mix then McBeane will have to do it with a high pick in this draft. 

 

Not every player is going to be in the elite category. Having solid players is not something to lament about; it is something to be happy about. 

The model is a slow and ineffective x-caller whose stunt assignments got cashed against the Dolphins?   

[BuffAlone]

3 minutes ago, Joeziehmer said:

The model is a slow and ineffective x-caller whose stunt assignments got cashed against the Dolphins?   

What in the world is this nonsense that keeps spewing from your lips? Must be coming from your ***** Lips I'm guessing

[Joeziehmer]

3 minutes ago, BuffAlone said:

What in the world is this nonsense that keeps spewing from your lips? Must be coming from your ***** Lips I'm guessing

Do you know assignments for gap coverage, shadow zone, not spy zone but shadow and shade coverage along with gap.  I’m guessing you talk well but never played.  Thanks for enlightening us on that perspective.  

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, Joeziehmer said:

The model is a slow and ineffective x-caller whose stunt assignments got cashed against the Dolphins?   

When I learn gibberish I will be able to translate gibberish and respond to you. 

[Joeziehmer]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

When I learn gibberish I will be able to translate gibberish and respond to you. 

X-call is the linebacker signal call to his lineman being an end or tackle.  His gaps and calls got blown up and exposed against Miami.  

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Joeziehmer said:

X-call is the linebacker signal call to his lineman being an end or tackle.  His gaps and calls got blown up and exposed against Miami.  

Now that you translated your original post I will respond that I still disagree with you. If they want to get a dynamic pass rusher then they should draft one because it is difficult to get that caliber of player from free agency or through a trade. When the Bills signed Murphy they knew exactly what type of player they were acquiring. And that's exactly what they got. 

[John from Riverside]

6 minutes ago, Joeziehmer said:

X-call is the linebacker signal call to his lineman being an end or tackle.  His gaps and calls got blown up and exposed against Miami.  

Like you even know the terminology they are using lol

 

Take a lap

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

Now that you translated your original post I will respond that I still disagree with you. If they want to get a dynamic pass rusher then they should draft one because it is difficult to get that caliber of player from free agency or through a trade. When the Bills signed Murphy they knew exactly what type of player they were acquiring. And that's exactly what they got. 

If Trent goes.....it is not because he cant play....he can...it is because he is unreliable due to the injuries and the dollars are not matching the production.

 

It wont be because he is not talented...he is

[DCOrange]

I'm not sure i understand the logic behind "We already have ____ cap space, why get more?"

 

The answer is pretty simple. You can save $5 million by cutting Murphy and then sign someone significantly cheaper that will likely produce more. The amount of cap space that Buffalo already has should not be a factor in the decision at all. You're not cutting Murphy because you need cap space; you're cutting Murphy because he's more expensive than alternative options and also likely inferior to those cheaper options. The same is likely true in the case of LeSean McCoy and Charles Clay as well. The Bills should cut them, not because they need to clear more cap space, but because they can replace them with better players at a better price point.

[Alphadawg7]

5 hours ago, Joeziehmer said:

What to do with Trent Murphy when all is said and done?  Still battling injuries, when healthy losing out to Shaq Lawson, and becoming rotational with bad knees.  I didn’t know we were looking for a compliment to Charles Clay on the other side of the ball.  Truthfully a great signing of sabermetrics and playing “money ball” shouldn’t we be developing younger and healthier players?  McBeane brought an end to a drought but lost a season and the locker room.  Next season cutting Murphy would be a hit of $7.5 Million it’s not like a league minimum.  So, do we keep bench warmers to avoid cap hits and hope they fit a rotation for at least a game?  

 

I see no reason to cut him, good depth and no need to take the cap hit.  Do you people who want to cut everyone realize how few people we have under contract next year?  We have a lot of positions to fill, we can’t cut everyone on top of that.

[TheBeane]

5 hours ago, Joeziehmer said:

What to do with Trent Murphy when all is said and done?  Still battling injuries, when healthy losing out to Shaq Lawson, and becoming rotational with bad knees.  I didn’t know we were looking for a compliment to Charles Clay on the other side of the ball.  Truthfully a great signing of sabermetrics and playing “money ball” shouldn’t we be developing younger and healthier players?  McBeane brought an end to a drought but lost a season and the locker room.  Next season cutting Murphy would be a hit of $7.5 Million it’s not like a league minimum.  So, do we keep bench warmers to avoid cap hits and hope they fit a rotation for at least a game?  

 

Does this post get the nomination for "worst post of the day"?