Allen is More Accurate Than I Thought He Would Be

[Forward Progress]

What I like most about Allen is that he plays to win the game.  Every third down play he throws (or runs) with the goal of getting a new set of downs.  It drove me nuts when Tyrod would hit the checkdown for a 4-yard gain on 3rd and 8.  Tyrod gets a boost to his passer rating on the play, but the result isn't any better than an incomplete pass.

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

his problem (but can also be a strength)  is he has a backyard football or hero ball mentality. Its good for extending plays but sometimes he rushes throws, throws off his back foot, across his body, or just throws it has hard as he can (instead of 70% which is probably good enough). This results in inaccuracy.

When he actually gets his base set and drives into the ball he is very accurate.

 

I'm not sure this is true.

 

Allen is some kind of freak who is most accurate running full speed throwing lasers down the field. He might be the only QB I've ever seen where this is true. 

 

He still misses easy throws when he has his feet set. Pretty much anytime he doesn't throw a "fastball", his accuracy dips. 

 

When he just rips it, he's very accurate. It's the touch passes where he has to take some off a throw or drop it over a defender where he still struggles. 

[Antonio]

I agree, he is much more accurate that people give him credit for.

 

In my opinion, the area where he needs to improve is to not throw so hard all the time. There are times that a simple easy to catch ball is required, therefore it will be easier for the WR to catch or even to adjust to the ball if needed. 

 

Take the pass to Zay that he missed for example. He put too much into it. If not, Zay would of had time to stop as he did and put to hands on the ball insted of just one. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, Forward Progress said:

What I like most about Allen is that he plays to win the game.  Every third down play he throws (or runs) with the goal of getting a new set of downs.  It drove me nuts when Tyrod would hit the checkdown for a 4-yard gain on 3rd and 8.  Tyrod gets a boost to his passer rating on the play, but the result isn't any better than an incomplete pass.

 

Agreed.

 

Unfortunately McDermott uses the opposite mindset and is way too conservative. 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

16 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

And this will be on his coaching. Will his coaches make him a pocket passer before he's ready. They tried this with Tyrod and it sucked. Let him be JA and build around that like the Steelers did with Ben or the 49er with Young or the Titans with McNair. Don't take away what he does best.

 

I went hard yesterday saying Allen needs to Run a lot less.

 

frankly i would prefer they approach  the next four games as more opportunities to experiment and learn than a win at all cost approach.

 

if that means Allen stays in the pocket and attempts different types of throws based on his analysis of the defense...I will take that over a immediate scramble for a first down.

 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

I don't buy that.  The throw is there to be made. Gotta have it when an NFL receiver comes that open by design in a clean pocket. 

 

Yeah, you wouldn't. 

[VADC Bills]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Agreed.

 

He can run 10 times a game now, but in 2 years that number should be around 5 times a game. He needs to reduce the number of times he gets hit if he's going to stay healthy. 

I would love to see him check down a little more.

I would like for the coordinators to design screens for him and incorporate more crossing patterns.

Once that happens we will put a lot more points on the board.

[CuddyDark]

1 minute ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

I went hard yesterday saying Allen needs to Run a lot less.

 

frankly i would prefer they approach  the next four games as more opportunities to experiment and learn than a win at all cost approach.

 

if that means Allen stays in the pocket and attempts different types of throws based on his analysis of the defense...I will take that over a immediate scramble for a first down.

 

 

We're not playing for this year. You job IMO is to let him be JA and build around that and come out with an offense next year that is all about what he does best. You can't force him to be a player he's not. Not at this point in his career. Working on that in the pocket stuff is in the offseason and on his own time with receivers after practice. For the Bills it should be this is how we win with JA as our QB.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

I do not look at accuracy as a duality--you either are or you are not accurate.  I see it as a spectrum.  Allen is by no means the most accurate quarterback.  But coming into the year, based on the scouting reports and every thing I had heard, I had expected him to be grossly inaccurate.  I do not think that has been the case.  He misses alot of throws; Zay in the endzone, Clay in the endzone, the interception.  But aside from those, he made numerous intermediate throws that were deadly accurate.  That throw to Zay at the end of the game that Zay dropped was a dime.  

 

The big thing is that I think his completion percentage is a bit misleading.  For whatever reason, probably because he has not developed his reads, Allen doesn't take the check down often.  Those check down throws really inflate completion percentages, especially for rookies.  Almost all of Allen's throws are over ten yards in the air.  Those lower percentage intermediate throws will always drive a completion percentage down.  

 

Point is this, I am happy with Allen's accuracy.  It is better than I expected, and I am hoping he will improve.  I am much more excited about Allen now than I was when we first drafted him.  

 

I agree with much of this. When i heard inaccurate I was much more thinking along the lines of ball placement where receivers are going to need to make circus catches on throws that should have hit them in stride. This is not the case for the most part.

 

Allen throws downfield a LOT. His completion percentage suffers in part because these are more difficult throws. Secondly, its pretty clear Allen is being coached to get out of the pocket and throw the ball away if nothing is there and he has no running lane. He has at least 4 or 5 of these every game.  One of the big changes I have noticed is that when he gets out of the pocket now he doesnt take off immediately he is looking for guys open downfield and making plays on the run...big difference from the first few games where he just took off with his head down not looking downfield. When you are only throwing 19 or 20 passes that's automatically starting you off at a 75% and in no way shape or form has anything to do with his real accuracy.

 

Are there some throws he misses? Sure there are. Everyone wants to point to the Zay throw but this is not really a case of being inaccurate. He put the ball exactly where Zay would have been of he sat down. Zay kept running. It looked wildly inacurate but it wasn't, just two young players not on the same page.

 

The Clay throw was tough because he was running all over and then kind of heaved it on the move. Could it have been better? Of course. Was it catchable? Absolutely.

 

The biggest thing with Allen I think is he needs to learn how to dial it down a notch or two when needed. Every throw does not need to be a laser. Sometimes a little air under the ball can do wonders especially when receivers are wide open.

 

That said, Allen throws darts many times downfield that only a handful of NFL QBs could throw. It will be really interesting to see how much better he gets with more experience and with better weapons and protection. At the very least i think its clear to see why the Bills and many other teams coveted Allen...the guy has a ceiling as high as any QB I can recall...he can literally do it all...

Edited December 3, 2018 by matter2003

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Yeah, you wouldn't. 

 

Why would I or anyone else with higher expecations?  That's not a difficult throw for an NFL QB who's not under pressure. It has to be a completion. 

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

3 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

We're not playing for this year. You job IMO is to let him be JA and build around that and come out with an offense next year that is all about what he does best. You can't force him to be a player he's not. Not at this point in his career. Working on that in the pocket stuff is in the offseason and on his own time with receivers after practice. For the Bills it should be this is how we win with JA as our QB.

 

But...if they aren’t playing for this year...then why not experiment?

 

we know he can run and we know he can throw on the run.

 

these four games work on what you don’t do so well or on areas that are uncomfortable.

 

ie...staying in the pocket.

 

if you let him be Josh Allen...then your a parent who is basically just caving to a crying baby to get them to stop crying.

 

Better to sit back there in the pocket and toss 45 balls for 300 yards and maybe 2-3 Tds and 2-3 ints. When your 4-8.

Edited December 3, 2018 by RalphWilson'sNewWar

[CuddyDark]

5 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Why would I or anyone else with higher expecations?  That's not a difficult throw for an NFL QB who's not under pressure. It has to be a completion. 

Or, they should just get rid of throws like this until he hits them in practice. In games they should be running crosses and posts and curls so he can throw those frozen ropes he's good at. Right now that throw should only be in the offense once teams force it.

2 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

But...if they aren’t playing for this year...then why not experiment?

 

we know he can run and we know he can throw on the run.

 

these four games work on what you don’t do so well or on areas that are uncomfortable.

 

ie...staying in the pocket.

I just don't see him as a traditional pocket QB. I'd do what he does best and force teams to stop it. What you want is for him to perfect what he does best. Get him some all day runners at WR and a couple TE, C and a G and do what he does best all game long. Force the defense to change what they do to stop you.

Edited December 3, 2018 by CuddyDark

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

Or, they should just get rid of throws like this until he hits them in practice. In games they should be running crosses and posts and curls so he can throw those frozen ropes he's good at. Right now that throw should only be in the offense once teams force it.

 

You shouldn't have to play offense with those kind of limitations.  It was a great play design to get Foster wide open and the accurate throw simply has to be made.  It's why Allen was drafted in the top ten after the limited QB was traded away.   Hopefully next time he hits it because he's capable of executing the throw. 

[bobblehead]

20 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You are for sure right, but that is a tough NFL throw.  He hits that he is already at franchise QB status.  But that is a tough ask for a rookie.  I hope he gets there, but I'm not upset he hasn't hit that throw yet. 

I don’t think that pass should have been attempted. If Foster catches that, that defender puts him in the hospital 

[NickelCity]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

The single most exaggerated criticism of Allen. 

 

It's staggering. 

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

But...if they aren’t playing for this year...then why not experiment?

 

we know he can run and we know he can throw on the run.

 

these four games work on what you don’t do so well or on areas that are uncomfortable.

 

ie...staying in the pocket.

 

if you let him be Josh Allen...then your a parent who is basically just caving to a crying baby to get them to stop crying.

 

Better to sit back there in the pocket and toss 45 balls for 300 yards and maybe 2-3 Tds and 2-3 ints. When your 4-8.

Oh you mean like that 25 yard dart he threw to Zay for a TD yesterday in between 3 Dolphin defenders? Or the play last week to Foster where he got sandwiched and still threw it 40 yards on rhe money for a 75 yard TD?

 

People keep talking like every throw he makes from the pocket is into the ground or 25 yards over someone's head and its not. On the last drive alone yesterday he made 3 consecutive throws from the pocket that were right on the money.

 

I think people come up with the narrative they want instead of the one that is happening on the field. Could he be better in the pocket? Yeah...he misses some throws. But he also makea some throws that maybe only 2 or 3 other QBs in the league could make.

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You shouldn't have to play offense with those kind of limitations.  It was a great play design to get Foster wide open and the accurate throw simply has to be made.  It's why Allen was drafted in the top ten after the limited QB was traded away.   Hopefully next time he hits it because he's capable of executing the throw. 

I think this is where learning to take something off the ball can help. He didn't have to throw the ball on a frozen rope, he could have took a little something off it and make it an easier play. Even if Foster had to slow down or stop it would have been preferrable to missing a throw because you zinged it too fast and misses him by a few feet.

3 minutes ago, bobblehead said:

I don’t think that pass should have been attempted. If Foster catches that, that defender puts him in the hospital 

I think that was one when he gets more experience where he throws it so Foster has to stop along the sideline, picks up 30 yards and goes out of bounds instead of leading him potentially into a huge hit.

 

Experience and seeing the same coverage more often will help with this.

[Bill Murray]

53 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

I'll agree. His overall accuracy isn't as bad as I expected, although he still has the random throw that he throws right into the turf which is weird.

 

Allen is very good at throwing the ball on a rope. If he's given the opportunity to let it rip, and he's throwing right at his target with no defender in the way, he's quite good.

 

On the flip side, any time he has to throw with touch he struggles. He can't naturally put air under the ball and drop it in a spot where his receiver can catch it. His deep balls are often inaccurate and he misses some easy throws where he can't just let it rip. Hopefully he works on those this offseason. 

disagree.  his pass to demarco out of the backfield had both great touch and anticipation.  he is a rookie, but that pass shows its something he needs to improve consistency on, not its something he cant do

[BillsFan2313]

37 minutes ago, RobH063 said:

You know who had career completion percentages of 60.1%, 59.4% and 56.9% respectively? Jim Kelly, Dan Marino and John Elway. Three Gold Jackets with accuracy issues. It's not important if you have other skills that help your team win games. They all had those traits and so does Josh Allen. I'm not saying to fit him for a Gold Jacket but Judas Priest, he's 7 games into his career. Give the kid some slack!

 

Que the "different era" folks

[26CornerBlitz]

Now this throw was a beautiful pass with touch and accuracy.  Gotta hold onto this Zay!

 

 

[dezertbill]

Everyone harps on the accuracy thing.  They overlook all of the amazing physical tools he has.  Even if he never becomes the most accurate QB in the game, he still has enough tools to be a great one.

 

What the Bills bet on from day one was his work ethic, and his desire to be more accurate.  He may never pass for 70% in a season, but he is going to work his butt off to get there.  If he gets to 64%, he'll be a stud QB.  He's a rookie, and  young.  As time goes and he gets reps and is put in situations he will only grow. 

 

What he has on the field is incredible confidence.  Whether it's running with the ball, or scrambling to make a pass, his body language screams, "I got this".  We needed a QB like that to lead this team for the next 15 years.  The accuracy thing will improve.  But he has other things you just cant teach.