Allen is More Accurate Than I Thought He Would Be

[CuddyDark]

5 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The blueprint is there. For whatever reason teams just aren't utilizing it.

 

Eventually people are going to figure out to stop a player like Allen, you need to rush 3 with a Spy, and drop the other 7 guys into zone coverage so they can keep their eyes on him in case he tries to run. 

 

Same as Tyrod. Make him be a quarterback, and eliminate his ability to escape the pocket, roll to his right and make big plays down the field. 

 

He's such an amazing runner that might now happen, but that's what I'd be doing if I was an opposing DC. Forget trying to sack him, just keep him in the pocket and make him beat you with his arm. 

I agree this will become the blueprint but he's just so big IDK if it will work. This is the blueprint for Cam but the LBers and DBs are just not big and or quick enough to stop him. JA is the same. He put a great move on Kiko. He's got some good lateral movement for a man his size. Plus if you play zone vs a running QB receivers sit in the zone like they do on the Steelers. Runners who can through change the defense, but you have to let him run or at least adlib.

Edited December 3, 2018 by CuddyDark

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The blueprint is there. For whatever reason teams just aren't utilizing it.

 

Eventually people are going to figure out to stop a player like Allen, you need to rush 3 with a Spy, and drop the other 7 guys into zone coverage so they can keep their eyes on him in case he tries to run. 

 

Same as Tyrod. Make him be a quarterback, and eliminate his ability to escape the pocket, roll to his right and make big plays down the field. 

 

He's such an amazing runner that might now happen, but that's what I'd be doing if I was an opposing DC. Forget trying to sack him, just keep him in the pocket and make him beat you with his arm. 

 

He's the same size as Cam Newton, and after a while even he started getting banged up from the hits. Broken ribs, concussions, etc. 

 

You can't run as a QB as much as Newton did early in his career and Allen is now and expect to stay healthy. 

 

Allen doesn't protect himself like Allen has shown.  

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

The blueprint is there. For whatever reason teams just aren't utilizing it.

 

Eventually people are going to figure out to stop a player like Allen, you need to rush 3 with a Spy, and drop the other 7 guys into zone coverage so they can keep their eyes on him in case he tries to run. 

 

Same as Tyrod. Make him be a quarterback, and eliminate his ability to escape the pocket, roll to his right and make big plays down the field. 

 

He's such an amazing runner that might now happen, but that's what I'd be doing if I was an opposing DC. Forget trying to sack him, just keep him in the pocket and make him beat you with his arm. 

 

It’s funny you say that.  I blurted out while talking to a friend discussing how teams would play Allen.  “Make him a Quarterback”.

 

Then I recalled, that’s exactly what defenses said about Taylor in 2017.

 

just watching the replay of yesterday, Allen is much more dangerous running OR when the play either breaks down/he bails early.  So he’s dangerously efficient when he turns the play into a school yard or jail break scenarios.

 

but you keep Allen in the pocket and...you have the miss down the sideline, or missing Jones in the end zone, or the interception or the missed bomb.

 

Allen’s scouting report of his issues  begins to ring true when he stays and throws from the pocket.

 

 

[RobH063]

You know who had career completion percentages of 60.1%, 59.4% and 56.9% respectively? Jim Kelly, Dan Marino and John Elway. Three Gold Jackets with accuracy issues. It's not important if you have other skills that help your team win games. They all had those traits and so does Josh Allen. I'm not saying to fit him for a Gold Jacket but Judas Priest, he's 7 games into his career. Give the kid some slack!

[Seasons1992]

I was thoroughly impressed and entertained yesterday by the young man and our team overall. Sure, they killed themselves on Special Teams and yes, they missed key opportunities to win the game. I told @plenzmd1 yesterday that this game probably was the most fun loss I've ever seen. I don't feel down about the loss at all today.

We're watching Josh grow quickly in the right direction and the team seems to buy in. If he can stay healthy I think the future is very bright.

[jrober38]

Just now, CuddyDark said:

I agree this will become the blueprint but he's just so big IDK if it will work. This is the blueprint for Cam but the LBers and DBs are just not big and or quick enough to stop him. JA is the same. She but a great move on Kiko. He's got some good lateral movement for a man his size. Plus if you play zone vs a running QB receivers sit in the zone like they do on the Steelers. Runners who can through change the defense, but you have to let him run or at least adlib.

 

Agreed. He's a freak.

 

I think the future change will be that opposing D lines no longer try to sack him. As we see time and time again, he just side steps them or shrugs off their arm tackles and runs away.

 

I think eventually you see teams rush 3, and just play contain by operating a two gap defense vs trying to get around a defender and lose gap control that Allen winds up exploiting. Then on the back end there will be 8 guys in coverage with their eyes on him. 

 

Right now the mistake everyone makes is thinking they can sack Allen. As you said he's too big and strong and it doesn't work. 

[CuddyDark]

1 minute ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

It’s funny you say that.  I blurted out while talking to a friend discussing how teams would play Allen.  “Make him a Quarterback”.

 

Then I recalled, that’s exactly what defenses said about Taylor in 2017.

 

just watching the replay of yesterday, Allen is much more dangerous running OR when the play either breaks down/he bails early.  So he’s dangerously efficient when he turns the play into a school yard or jail break scenarios.

 

but you keep Allen in the pocket and...you have the miss down the sideline, or missing Jones in the end zone, or the interception or the missed bomb.

 

Allen’s scouting report of his issues  begins to ring true when he stays and throws from the pocket.

 

 

And this will be on his coaching. Will his coaches make him a pocket passer before he's ready. They tried this with Tyrod and it sucked. Let him be JA and build around that like the Steelers did with Ben or the 49er with Young or the Titans with McNair. Don't take away what he does best.

[Captain Hindsight]

Anyone still think we should have played Matt "hot hand" Barkley the rest of the year?

[jrober38]

2 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

It’s funny you say that.  I blurted out while talking to a friend discussing how teams would play Allen.  “Make him a Quarterback”.

 

Then I recalled, that’s exactly what defenses said about Taylor in 2017.

 

just watching the replay of yesterday, Allen is much more dangerous running OR when the play either breaks down/he bails early.  So he’s dangerously efficient when he turns the play into a school yard or jail break scenarios.

 

but you keep Allen in the pocket and...you have the miss down the sideline, or missing Jones in the end zone, or the interception or the missed bomb.

 

Allen’s scouting report of his issues  begins to ring true when he stays and throws from the pocket.

 

 

 

For sure. 

 

Allen's scouting report described a freak QB with a rocket arm who can run like a gazelle. We've seen that.

 

It also described a guy who doesn't do well in the pocket, and excels when things break down. It also described a guy who struggles to throw with touch, and is best when he can uncork his fastball. We've seen all of that as well. 

 

I underestimated Allen's ability to run. That alone gives him a higher floor than I expected. 

 

He just needs to become more consistent. He was great in the 2nd half, and that's what we remember, but he also only had 50 yards passing at halftime. He needs to clean up the long lulls where our passing game is non existent. 

 

Allen was great yesterday and we should have won, but there's still a ton he can improve on. He needs to learn to check down from the pocket more and take what the defense gives him, and he really needs to work on his deep ball which hasn't been accurate all year. 

[26CornerBlitz]

Gotta hit throws like this that sustain offense.

 

 

[blacklabel]

He's making  more plays than he's missing on, which is progress. And yeah, the scouting reports and "concerns" written about this kid were really overstated. Read any report on him and you'd think every other pass of his ends up a mile outside the stadium. Does he miss here and there? Yeah... but he's also made a bunch of throws this season alone that I haven't seen from any Bills QB since Bledsoe. He's getting it done with a less than stellar supporting cast, too. It makes you encouraged for the future once they get some legitimate weapons in place. Kid was the entire offense yesterday and he's changing things with this franchise. If the team was down in the past, the fan-base would be like, "Bah, forget it, they're done, 4th quarter comebacks don't happen for the Bills." But now, you can tell that the team rallies around this kid and knows that if he gets a chance to go out and win it in the final few minutes, there's real belief there that he's going to come out with the win. That was something I found encouraging during the run up to the draft. Coaches and teammates both consistently said that they always felt like there was a chance when Allen was on the field. And he almost came away with the improbable victory yesterday, if only Charles Clay hadn't tripped over his own twinkle toes, dropped the ball and then faceplanted on the goal-line. 

[billsfan1959]

3 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

The blueprint is there. For whatever reason teams just aren't utilizing it.

 

Eventually people are going to figure out to stop a player like Allen, you need to rush 3 with a Spy, and drop the other 7 guys into zone coverage so they can keep their eyes on him in case he tries to run. 

 

Same as Tyrod. Make him be a quarterback, and eliminate his ability to escape the pocket, roll to his right and make big plays down the field. 

 

He's such an amazing runner that might now happen, but that's what I'd be doing if I was an opposing DC. Forget trying to sack him, just keep him in the pocket and make him beat you with his arm. 

I think he has shown plenty of ability in the last two weeks of being able to step up into the pocket and deliver big time throws -much more so than early this season. I agree that I would like to see him make more plays from the pocket and less with his legs; however, I don't believe that is all on Allen. I think we will see a lot of improvement with upgrades on the OL and at skill positions.

 

I think if teams try to contain him in the pocket by dropping more into coverage and rushing fewer people I believe he will make plays from the pocket. I've seen him throw more intermediate to long passes, into tight windows, in the last two weeks than I saw from Tyrod all last year. He has so much room for improvement; however, he played some pretty good football the last two weeks and it is very encouraging.

 

Also, in two of his his previous six games, he led the team on game winning fourth quarter drives (and we don't know what he might have done in the Houston game). He came pretty damn close to having his third, fourth quarter, game winning drive in seven games total. 

 

There is a lot he needs to improve on and there is also a lot to be excited about.

[hemma]

Part of it is here:  https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-intended-yards

 

Sort by IAY (Intended Air Yards), Descending

 

You'll be surprised … cuz this guy is definitely NOT Mr. Checkdown.

[jrober38]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

Gotta hit throws like this that sustain offense.

 

 

 

Allen is great when he can throw the ball hard on a rope.

 

When he has to throw the ball over a defender with some touch, his accuracy falls off a cliff.

 

There was another one where he rolled right and missed a wide open Zay Jones who broke his route off up the sideline. 

 

Hopefully he can clean that up. 

[CuddyDark]

12 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

He's the same size as Cam Newton, and after a while even he started getting banged up from the hits. Broken ribs, concussions, etc. 

 

You can't run as a QB as much as Newton did early in his career and Allen is now and expect to stay healthy. 

Cam took a lot of cheap shots but they keep changing the rules to protect offensive guys. Early in Cam's career they didn't have this blow to the head rule. They didn't have this landing on the QB rule. Defensive players are losing some of those big hits just by the rules on what you can and cannot do to offensive players. I agree with it being a risk but at this point I'd let him run as much as 10 times per game.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Gotta hit throws like this that sustain offense.

 

 

 

You are for sure right, but that is a tough NFL throw.  He hits that he is already at franchise QB status.  But that is a tough ask for a rookie.  I hope he gets there, but I'm not upset he hasn't hit that throw yet. 

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said:

I think he has shown plenty of ability in the last two weeks of being able to step up into the pocket and deliver big time throws -much more so than early this season. I agree that I would like to see him make more plays from the pocket and less with his legs; however, I don't believe that is all on Allen. I think we will see a lot of improvement with upgrades on the OL and at skill positions.

 

I think if teams try to contain him in the pocket by dropping more into coverage and rushing fewer people I believe he will make plays from the pocket. I've seen him throw more intermediate to long passes, into tight windows, in the last two weeks than I saw from Tyrod all last year. He has so much room for improvement; however, he played some pretty good football the last two weeks and it is very encouraging.

 

Also, in two of his his previous six games, he led the team on game winning fourth quarter drives (and we don't know what he might have done in the Houston game). He came pretty damn close to having his third, fourth quarter, game winning drive in seven games total. 

 

There is a lot he needs to improve on and there is also a lot to be excited about.

 

Agreed.

 

His floor is higher than I expected due to his truly elite running ability. He's excellent when things break down and he can run around and utilize his athleticism. 

 

He just needs to learn to be more effective from the pocket. Use more check downs, and improve his ability to throw with touch. Figure out how to complete more deep balls to our receivers which are often wide open. 

 

The first half of the season I thought Allen was awful, but he's been a lot better the last two games. There are signs there that he can win games with his legs. If he can figure out how to throw a little better particularly from the pocket on touch passes, he could be pretty good. 

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

You are for sure right, but that is a tough NFL throw.  He hits that he is already at franchise QB status.  But that is a tough ask for a rookie.  I hope he gets there, but I'm not upset he hasn't hit that throw yet. 

 

I don't buy that.  The throw is there to be made. Gotta have it when an NFL receiver comes that open by design in a clean pocket. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

Cam took a lot of cheap shots but they keep changing the rules to protect offensive guys. Early in Cam's career they didn't have this blow to the head rule. They didn't have this landing on the QB rule. Defensive players are losing some of those big hits just by the rules on what you can and cannot do to offensive players. I agree with it being a risk but at this point I'd let him run as much as 10 times per game.

 

Agreed.

 

He can run 10 times a game now, but in 2 years that number should be around 5 times a game. He needs to reduce the number of times he gets hit if he's going to stay healthy. 

[Mrbojanglezs]

his problem (but can also be a strength)  is he has a backyard football or hero ball mentality. Its good for extending plays but sometimes he rushes throws, throws off his back foot, across his body, or just throws it has hard as he can (instead of 70% which is probably good enough). This results in inaccuracy.

When he actually gets his base set and drives into the ball he is very accurate.