How much does the reveal that missed Zay Jones in endzone pass affect your inaccuracy POV?

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

...and Zay said the exact opposite it's almost as if these teammates refuse to throw each other under the bus.

I don't really think what they said was the exact opposite. They were both being diplomatic and careful not to shove the other under the bus. They both implied that the pattern was designed to sit but Zay saw the wide open endzone and continued to the open space. Josh just said I should have known he was going to do that so it's my fault. Zay said I should have sat like the play was designed to and it would have been a good pass and TD. I think they both saw it the exact same way after the fact but were taking responsibility.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Warcodered said:

Oh no I was just disagreeing with the first 3/4 of your post the last quarter I agree with.

 

The coverage dicated that he keep moving. What are you disagreeing with?

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

You dont sit down against man to man coverage. You sit down against zone. Cover 0 is straight man to man with no deep safeties.

If they were indeed in Cover 0, which they appeared to be, then it was actual truth.

But there was really no one on him. In theory, you're right. But he was wide open. He didn't really have to go to the huge middle, he didn't have to avoid anyone. And again, it wasn't a if they do this we do that pattern, it was a straight pattern he broke off.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

But there was really no one on him. In theory, you're right. But he was wide open. He didn't really have to go to the huge middle, he didn't have to avoid anyone. And again, it wasn't a if they do this we do that pattern, it was a straight pattern he broke off.

 

How was he supposed to know the guy covering him was nowhere around him? In the heat of the moment he followed the rules he was taught. Thats a pretty big stretch to say he should have done anything other than what he did.

Edited December 3, 2018 by matter2003

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The coverage dicated that he keep moving. What are you disagreeing with?

I didn't really from what I have been hearing. It wasn't because it was man coverage that he kept running, it was because he saw this huge expanse in the middle of the endzone. Josh said he should have known he was going to keep going because no one was there, NOT because it was a if there is a man D you do keep going and if it is a zone D you sit.

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

You dont sit down against man to man coverage. You sit down against zone. Cover 0 is straight man to man with no deep safeties.

If they were indeed in Cover 0, which they appeared to be, then it was actual truth.

 

Agreed, but he was SO OPEN. But Zay doesn’t know what’s right behind him. A communication error between two guys with a combined less than 3 years NFL experience. 

[CincyBillsFan]

55 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

It only effects it if you think it was an inaccurate pass because it was a bad throw instead of because 2 players saw 2 different things.

 

Jones saw Cover 0 man to man and kept running because he saw green in front of him. Allen said he was correct and it was 100% on him because he thought he was going to sit down in the spot. Just a rookie mistake and misreading the situation NOT an inaccurate throw.

 

And when all is said & done what matters here is that Allen showed a maturity far beyond his years by accepting responsibility for missing a wide open Receiver.  He didn't throw Jones or Clay under the bus and that is a far more important thing then winning or losing a meaningless game. 

 

And as others have noted this was NOT a case of inaccuracy but miscommunication - a problem easily fixed in practice.   

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I don't really think what they said was the exact opposite. They were both being diplomatic and careful not to shove the other under the bus. They both implied that the pattern was designed to sit but Zay saw the wide open endzone and continued to the open space. Josh just said I should have known he was going to do that so it's my fault. Zay said I should have sat like the play was designed to and it would have been a good pass and TD. I think they both saw it the exact same way after the fact but were taking responsibility.

That's kind of how I saw it as opposite. Allen took the blame saying he should of read the field and knew he was going to keep going and Zay said the opposite that he shouldn't of assumed Allen would read it that way and should of stopped. It's pretty much the same as the last throw to Clay both are taking responsibility for it.

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

 

How was he supposed to know the guy covering him was nowhere around him? In the heat of the moment he followed the rules he was taught. Thats a pretty big stretch to say he should have done anything other than what he did.

Like I said just above, from what the guys as well as McD said and inferred (McD implied in his PC that Zay was supposed to sit), it was not a if there is man coverage you continue, and if it is zone you sit play. It was a specific you sit play. Josh didn't misread the coverage and should have known Zay was going to continue, Zay only continued because there was this enormous opening. Josh said he should have known Zay was going to break off the pattern, NOT that the pattern called for continuing against man and sitting against zone.

[Warcodered]

9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The coverage dicated that he keep moving. What are you disagreeing with?

That Allen saying it was his fault automatically means it is or was that not what you were implying when you posted that?

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

That's kind of how I saw it as opposite. Allen took the blame saying he should of read the field and knew he was going to keep going and Zay said the opposite that he shouldn't of assumed Allen would read it that way and should of stopped. It's pretty much the same as the last throw to Clay both are taking responsibility for it.

Right. But to me, if this was in a Detroit Green Bay game where I have no dog in the hunt, and saw that play live, and then heard everything the coach and two players said about it, I would have blamed the QB originally for missing an easy wide open TD, and then later, blamed the WR a little more than the QB for cutting off a designed pattern, because the QB expected him to follow the pattern. It wasn't a "read" route.

[Dadonkadonk]

Even if Zay was supposed to sit down.  Josh can make that a more catchable ball by taking a little off it.  He was wide open and a simple toss giving Zay a chance to adjust would have gotten a TD

[PIZ]

Nice post.  I also like that we finally appear to have a QB that finally knows where the open guy is.  It has been YEARS since a Bills QB knew where to go with the ball.

 

 

[Cash]

Not a big difference to me. In the NFL, both QB and receiver need to read/understand the defense on a given play and potentially adjust as a result. Zay was on the opposite end of that last year against Carolina when TT threw it where he should have gone instead of where the route was called to. For those of you who think Zay should’ve sat against the coverage, consider that doing so would’ve cost him his first TD. Not exactly apples to apples, but still the same general idea. 

 

Having said that, I thought it was a pretty good game overall for Allen. More misfires this week than last week, but he generally looked good. This info about the missed TD does make me feel a little better about it - more of a rookie mistake than a terrible throw. The other two missed TDs (bomb to Foster plus game-ender to Clay) were also not egregious, and arguably at least partially on the receivers. 

 

I’m much more encouraged about Allen now than I was after the Vikings game. 

6 minutes ago, Dadonkadonk said:

Even if Zay was supposed to sit down.  Josh can make that a more catchable ball by taking a little off it.  He was wide open and a simple toss giving Zay a chance to adjust would have gotten a TD

 

Yeah, all else aside, it was a bad throw by virtue of this fact alone. A rookie mistake, but not an unforgivable one. 

[NoSaint]

1 hour ago, Sig1Hunter said:

He threw it where he wanted it to go. Miscommunication aside, it's not inaccurate if it went where he intended.... right?

 

Without the presence of a receiver on the route, it’s kind of hard to say how accurate it was. Seemed obvious the first (and maybe only) issue was miscommunication and not wild inaccuracy though 

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

Without the presence of a receiver on the route, it’s kind of hard to say how accurate it was. Seemed obvious the first (and maybe only) issue was miscommunication and not wild inaccuracy though 

It seems to me from what the coaches and players were saying that it was only a couple yard issue, and that Josh threw it right where it was supposed to, which was about two yards behind where Zay was.

[SDS]

I did not see the whole game. Which specific play are we talking about? Is there a replay somewhere?

[downunderbill]

1 minute ago, SDS said:

I did not see the whole game. Which specific play are we talking about? Is there a replay somewhere?

 

I'm assuming the play where he threw the behind Zay int the end zone.

[Kelly the Dog]

3 minutes ago, SDS said:

I did not see the whole game. Which specific play are we talking about? Is there a replay somewhere?

I think it was the first drive of the third quarter. 3rd and 5 or 6 from around the 15. Zay goes over the middle in the end zone and he is WIDE OPEN. The pass is a yard or two behind him and he lunges back for it but had no chance. Josh had time in the pocket and it looked like he just misfired badly on a play that was a sure TD. Then they kicked a FG. But after the game the players and coaches said he threw it where Zay was supposed to stop. Zay kept running because the middle of the end zone was wide open.  

[SDS]

Thanks. I did not see the play. If anyone sees it in a tweet please post it. Thanks.