section122 Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Those are the scores from my sheet, yeah. I haven't been doing posts specific to the spreadsheet, but I did post the stats for starters for week 12 earlier. I also added a tab to my sheet comparing rookie year QB stats that I'll put out once the season wraps up. Thanks for this! I would be interested in seeing Josh's numbers after sitting as opposed to the start of the season to see if the eye test improvement I've seen is matched in the box score.
Alphadawg7 Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 51 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Ravens are 7-5. The prior 3 losses were to the Saints, @ Panthers and Steelers. The last 3 W's were against a crumbling 5-7 Bungles team, a throw int he towel 2 -10 Raiders team and a WTF happened to the Falcons team @ 4-8. So what. Wins are wins. He hasn’t lost yet. You can revisit if he starts losing games all you want, but this is a discussion about TODAY. And Today he is 3-0 while rosen and Darnold have been meh at best. I don’t get this whole thing where people want to hold it against a team or player when they win the games they should win. Had he lost the games and played well you would say “well he lost still.” When he wins you say, well look who he played. It’s a no win situation for him, the haters will spin each story to be negative regardless. Does the 3-0 start mean he will somehow lead them to the SB, not at all. But it’s better than losing, and he’s doing more for the Ravens than the other two are doing for their respective teams including leading them back into a playoff spot. His job is to go out there and win the game, and as a rookie in his first 3 stats he is 3-0. That matters. 2
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 28 minutes ago, section122 said: Thanks for this! I would be interested in seeing Josh's numbers after sitting as opposed to the start of the season to see if the eye test improvement I've seen is matched in the box score. Broke it down pre & post injury. Biggest things that stand out to me: - Generally his stats are up across the board. Passer rating, ANY/A, YPG, YPA, TD/TO, etc. - His TD% & TO% over the past 2 games are very comparable to Big Ben this year (5.26 vs. 5.20 and 2.63 vs. 2.69) - His YPT in the last 2 games is most directly comparable to Pat Mahomes (8.04 vs. 8.07) - His Rating in the last 2 games would place him right behind Trubisky at #11 if he were to have sustained this type of play throughout the year Need to see this in more than just a 2 game stretch to get too worked up though. 1 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: So what. Wins are wins. He hasn’t lost yet. You can revisit if he starts losing games all you want, but this is a discussion about TODAY. And Today he is 3-0 while rosen and Darnold have been meh at best. I don’t get this whole thing where people want to hold it against a team or player when they win the games they should win. Had he lost the games and played well you would say “well he lost still.” When he wins you say, well look who he played. It’s a no win situation for him, the haters will spin each story to be negative regardless. Does the 3-0 start mean he will somehow lead them to the SB, not at all. But it’s better than losing, and he’s doing more for the Ravens than the other two are doing for their respective teams including leading them back into a playoff spot. His job is to go out there and win the game, and as a rookie in his first 3 stats he is 3-0. That matters. A win is a win is a win. My apologies , but Strength of Schedule does matter. It doesn't work long term if you don't have a passing QB. LJ is TT 2.0 Rosen beat Rodgers .... Does that make him better? Edited December 3, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan
GunnerBill Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Steve Young (past) - Cam Newton (present) called to say otherwise. Big Ben used his legs a lot when he was younger and more mobile, so did guys like John Elway. Around the league guys like Rodgers, Luck, Smith, etc. also have been guys who have to fear them beating you with their legs if they escape. The difference is, Allen is already better with his legs than those guys outside maybe Newton, but even that’s debatable. Allen is not running the way TT did or how Lamar is...his eyes are always downfield and makes a lot of throws on the run as he’s looking to throw first. I mean he only ran 9 times this week, he was just lethal when he did and put up over 130 yards on 9 carries. We have a #1 WR on paper in KB who has no separation and plays like he has no fight and could care less. Other guys have had trouble consistently getting separation too. So with a sub par WR group running routes and subpar OL blocking, it’s been more out of necessity for him to run than anything. He’s still going through progressions and also still looking to throw when scrambling often before he commits to taking off unless the field is wide open. So I disagree, he can win using his legs this way long term. The issue we have is not that he’s using his legs so effectively, it’s the OL is weak and so are WRs overall forcing him to have to run more than he intends. Once those two groups improve, he will take off less often, but still be lethal when he does. I have yet to see him run because he didn’t see some wide open throws like TT. It’s either a designed run, a run because the field is wide open when avoiding the rush, or because there was no where to go with the ball before the pocket failed. All great except my comment about running was about Lamar not about Josh Allen. Josh Allen is scrambling, partly because his protection is inconsistent, partly because as yet he isn't seeing things quickly enough (not a criticism, perfectly normal for a rookie) and partly because he just has a desire to make plays. The Bills have used him on designed runs in the red zone a couple of times and in sneak situations. My comment was about Lamar who is being used as a running Quarterback. Not a Quarterback who runs. Hence Josh has impressed me sufficiently to be #2 on my list in terms of how good I'd feel about each of the guys and Lamar is #5. What Josh is doing now with his legs probably isn't sustainable but doesn't need to be because it is a result of circumstance. What Lamar is doing now isn't sustainable because it is the gameplan. And we have just seen more than any other franchise in the league that a gameplan that involves the Quarterback as a runner as a key element of it is only sustainable for a short period before it shows its limitations - see Taylor, Tyrod. 3
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, GunnerBill said: All great except my comment about running was about Lamar not about Josh Allen. Josh Allen is scrambling, partly because his protection is inconsistent, partly because as yet he isn't seeing things quickly enough (not a criticism, perfectly normal for a rookie) and partly because he just has a desire to make plays. The Bills have used him on designed runs in the red zone a couple of times and in sneak situations. My comment was about Lamar who is being used as a running Quarterback. Not a Quarterback who runs. Hence Josh has impressed me sufficiently to be #2 on my list in terms of how good I'd feel about each of the guys and Lamar is #5. What Josh is doing now with his legs probably isn't sustainable but doesn't need to be because it is a result of circumstance. What Lamar is doing now isn't sustainable because it is the gameplan. And we have just seen more than any other franchise in the league that a gameplan that involves the Quarterback as a runner as a key element of it is only sustainable for a short period before it shows its limitations - see Taylor, Tyrod. what he said
Alphadawg7 Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: A win is a win is a win. My apologies , but Strength of Schedule does matter. It doesn't work long term if you don't have a passing QB. LJ is TT 2.0 Rosen beat Rodgers .... Does that make him better? We are grading these players out today. LJ is doing more for his team than Rosen or Darnold. He’s winning games and leading a playoff charge. Does it mean he will certainly have the better career, no. But we don’t know the future, we only can grade today. And up to today, LJ has been better than Rosen or darnold. 10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: All great except my comment about running was about Lamar not about Josh Allen. Josh Allen is scrambling, partly because his protection is inconsistent, partly because as yet he isn't seeing things quickly enough (not a criticism, perfectly normal for a rookie) and partly because he just has a desire to make plays. The Bills have used him on designed runs in the red zone a couple of times and in sneak situations. My comment was about Lamar who is being used as a running Quarterback. Not a Quarterback who runs. Hence Josh has impressed me sufficiently to be #2 on my list in terms of how good I'd feel about each of the guys and Lamar is #5. What Josh is doing now with his legs probably isn't sustainable but doesn't need to be because it is a result of circumstance. What Lamar is doing now isn't sustainable because it is the gameplan. And we have just seen more than any other franchise in the league that a gameplan that involves the Quarterback as a runner as a key element of it is only sustainable for a short period before it shows its limitations - see Taylor, Tyrod. Ah, my mistake as I thought you meant Allen. In regards to Lamar, I fully Agree with you as well. I think Lamar is going what he needs to do right now to win games, and that’s great for him, but long term he will need to continue to develop as a passer to sustain success. I also agree with rest of your post fully too. Edited December 3, 2018 by Alphadawg7
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 26 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: We are grading these players out today. LJ is doing more for his team than Rosen or Darnold. He’s winning games and leading a playoff charge. Does it mean he will certainly have the better career, no. But we don’t know the future, we only can grade today. And up to today, LJ has been better than Rosen or darnold. For the last 3 games. sure we can make that argument. Had Lamar started in September ..... it could be a lot different
John from Riverside Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 I honestly give him a C plus.....and I love the guy We need the passing game to improve....it is not all his fault We need him to run LESS even though he is really good at it
GunnerBill Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: I honestly give him a C plus.....and I love the guy We need the passing game to improve....it is not all his fault We need him to run LESS even though he is really good at it C to a C+ is about where I'd put him too.
section122 Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 2 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Broke it down pre & post injury. Biggest things that stand out to me: - Generally his stats are up across the board. Passer rating, ANY/A, YPG, YPA, TD/TO, etc. - His TD% & TO% over the past 2 games are very comparable to Big Ben this year (5.26 vs. 5.20 and 2.63 vs. 2.69) - His YPT in the last 2 games is most directly comparable to Pat Mahomes (8.04 vs. 8.07) - His Rating in the last 2 games would place him right behind Trubisky at #11 if he were to have sustained this type of play throughout the year Need to see this in more than just a 2 game stretch to get too worked up though. I don't lol. Seriously though the last 2 games I have been very impressed with Allen. The best part of his game is that he just makes plays. It may be running but it could also be passing. The last play would have been dead before the throw for a majority of qbs in the league imo. He started slow yesterday but was lights out in the 4th quarter. I'm excited and hopeful we have our guy. In a personal anecdote that means nothing I watched the end of the game with my wife (not a big sports fan). When they lost she said she was surprised I wasn't mad. I told her that this year is all about finding out whether or not Allen can be a qb in this league. She said he is really good but the offensive line is terrible. So there you have it. Josh Allen will be a franchise qb because my wife is never wrong (at least that's what she tells me!).
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 4, 2018 Posted December 4, 2018 Jackson and Allen’s passing stats are a lot closer than people think. Also, I just researched EJ’s 7th start. http://www.nfl.com/player/ejmanuel/2539228/gamelogs?season=2013 defimtely saw some major flashes. I just don’t want to be hurt again.
cle23 Posted December 4, 2018 Posted December 4, 2018 16 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: I’d like to see Baker vs the Jags. He was hot garbage vs the Bucs/Texans/Steelers/Chargers. You see right through my insecurities ???? Youre good Frazier ! I cherry picked 4 more games for you ?? Mayfield had 215 yards, 2TD and 0 INT against Tampa. He did struggle against Houston in the 1st half. He threw for 352 yards in the 2nd half, and should have had 2 TDS if Callaway doesn't fumble into the end zone on a 71 yard pass. Mayfield has definitely had a few rough patches but as a passer, but he is head and shoulders above Allen right now. Allen has impressed me. I thought he would bomb right off the bat, but he has been better than I expected.
CSBill Posted December 4, 2018 Posted December 4, 2018 18 hours ago, Boatdrinks said: Though I haven’t watched or scrutinized Mayfield anywhere close to as much as Allen, I’d contend that Mayfield is well ahead of Allen. He looks more adept at playing traditional QB in the NFL, whereas Allen still looks raw in many aspects. He’s more of an erratic, yet freakishly athletic QB that makes big plays scrambling while occasionally wowing you with a laser-like pass. He may never be a traditional NFL QB, and therefore will always have legions of skeptics. Fair point. Mayfield is doing it more the NFL traditional way, have to agree. Both of have of them have detractors. But both bring a lot of excitement. I'm just glad, as a Bills fan, that one is on our team and is very quickly making this team relevant on the national stage. Let's hope it continues for many many years.
The Bills Blog Posted December 4, 2018 Posted December 4, 2018 On 12/2/2018 at 6:52 PM, GunnerBill said: To me: 1. Baker 2. Allen 3. Rosen 4. Darnold 5. Jackson Why did you use Mayfield's first name and everyone else's last name? Why do I keep seeing this? What if we ranked them like this: 1. Mayfield 2. Allen 3. Rosen 4. Sam 5. Jackson ??? OH MY GOD! IT CONTINUES THROUGH THE THREAD!
GunnerBill Posted December 4, 2018 Posted December 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, The Bills Blog said: Why did you use Mayfield's first name and everyone else's last name? Why do I keep seeing this? What if we ranked them like this: 1. Mayfield 2. Allen 3. Rosen 4. Sam 5. Jackson ??? OH MY GOD! IT CONTINUES THROUGH THE THREAD! Haha. I have no idea. Maybe subconsciously I can't get that shirtless Sports Illustrated over out of my head and I am secretly in love with him?
Royale with Cheese Posted December 4, 2018 Posted December 4, 2018 3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Haha. I have no idea. Maybe subconsciously I can't get that shirtless Sports Illustrated over out of my head and I am secretly in love with him? It's like Magic Johnson or Kobe Bryant. If you just use one name, you're calling both by their first.
Rufridr101 Posted December 4, 2018 Posted December 4, 2018 Allen has superstar potential Mayfield is more polished today but doesn't posses the same wow qualities Allen has 0 weapons the browns have some Mayfield needs a complete team Allen doesn't Mayfield couldn't win a game with this roster 1 1
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 5, 2018 Posted December 5, 2018 this seems a good place for this http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/288859/nfl-rookie-first-round-qbs-the-good-and-bad-and-whats-next NFL rookie first-round QBs: The good, bad and what's next Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills Stat line: 101-of-191 (52.9 percent), 1,223 yards, 5 TDs, 7 INTs; 57 rushes, 389 yards, 4 TDs; passer rating: 66.3; Total QBR: 53.0 Baker Mayfield, Cleveland Browns Stat line: 224-of-345 (63.3 percent), 2,638 yards, 18 TDs, 10 INTs; passer rating: 91.1; Total QBR: 50.6 Sam Darnold, New York Jets Stat line: 159-of-289 (55 percent), 1,934 yards, 11 TDs, league-leading 14 interceptions; passer rating: 68.3; Total QBR: 31.5 Lamar Jackson, Baltimore Ravens Stat line: 46-of-77 (59.7 percent), 540 yards, 2 TDs, 3 INTs; 82 rushes, 404 yards; passer rating: 73.5; Total QBR: 38.5 1
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