Allen's Last Pass (12/2): Bad Pass or Drop?

[CountDorkula]

Both.

 

Could it have been a better throw by Allen, absolutely.

Should it have been caught by Clay, absolutely.

 

80/20 Clay/Allen blame.

 

 

Have to be encouraged with Allen though.

Edited December 3, 2018 by CountDorkula

[Romie]

6 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

I estimate the ball was under thrown by something on the order of 13 yards

I don't think your qualified to give estimates

Edited December 3, 2018 by Romie

[CNYfan]

CBS Sports blamed Allen.  Claims he "missed" a wide open Charles Clay in the end zone.  

 

There was comparative fault on this play (OL anyone) but it tips toward Clay for me, choking in the big moment.

[Big Gun]

Simon and White are trying too hard to blame Allen for a bad throw when Clay dropped it. These guys are pathetic.

[teef]

i'm of the both category.   either way, i walked away from that game feeling more positive about allen than when it began.   there was a lot of good there to build on.  

[billsfan1959]

7 minutes ago, teef said:

i'm of the both category.   either way, i walked away from that game feeling more positive about allen than when it began.   there was a lot of good there to build on.  

Agree. How can any reasonable, objective fan of this team not feel positive about Allen after the last two games?

[buffaloboyinATL]

I voted drop. It would be a “bad pass” if it was a normal play with time in the pocket, but for everything he had to do leading up to the throw, it was beautiful. That is the kind of throw that QB’s like Aaron Rodgers make, that make them so dangerous and win games they probably shouldn’t.

 

a better receiver makes that catch.

[Doc]

Clay would have dropped a "perfect" pass as well.  It's all on him.

[The Poojer]

Could Allen have run for the first down?

Clay should NOT have been that deep in the endzone that far into the play, he should have been running closer to Allen to help him out.

Pass was a bit of a duck, but should have been caught.....

 

.....UGH!!!!!!

[4BillsintheBurgh]

As others have said, Clay misjudged the ball coming in, leading to the oh sh** dive and subsequent slip. With Allen's normal bullets you have to assume those guys first reaction is that it's not going to be short. Once the scramble started maybe he thought Allen was done for and didn't move back toward him because Allen did some amazing things to keep it alive. Clay should have been working back as soon as Allen broke outside the pocket and he should have realized that the cross field throw would not have a lot of mustard on it. If Clay was a rook, I could forgive all that, as a vet he needs to make the play. It's on him.

[DC Tom]

9 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

I think it's time to ring the @DC Tom bat phone.

 

The math is right.  Everything else is wrong.  The poster's an idiot.

[teef]

32 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Agree. How can any reasonable, objective fan of this team not feel positive about Allen after the last two games?

it wasn't perfect, or even pretty, but allen did what he could to put this team on his back and score points.  if/once the game slows down for him, allen could be a tremendous qb.

[Royale with Cheese]

The biggest mistake I believe with Clay was game situation.  He didn't need to catch the ball in the endzone which I think he was trying to do.  Step up and catch the ball even if you go out of the endzone. and you're at the 1.  You didn't have anyone within 7 yards of you, you can still turn and get in.  Or even lets say you do get tackled at the 1.  We still had time on the clock to spike it and probably run 2 more plays from the 1.

[Royale with Cheese]

8 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Just watched that throw again about 10 times.

 

I estimate the ball was under thrown by something on the order of 13 yards.

 

When the ball leaves Allen's hand, Clay is near the end line, in the back of the end zone.  He ends up having to get his hands to ground level on the goal line to get to the ball.  I.E., the ball would have hit a receiver "in the numbers" probably around the 3 yard line or maybe even further out.

 

The ball was horribly thrown with a wobble that suggested it was tipped; it was not tipped. 

 

The whole thing seems more spectacular than it was b/c the game was on the line and Allen had to run around in circles avoiding a sack before the throw.

 

In the end, it was a horribly thrown ball and Clay failed to make a really nice catch to bring it in, which perhaps he should have, but he did not.

 

The Ronnie Harmon incident in Cleveland is not comparable IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

13 yards????  The ball hit Charles Clay's hands....how long do you think his arms are?

[4BillsintheBurgh]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

13 yards????  The ball hit Charles Clay's hands....how long do you think his arms are?

All he's saying is that if Clay didn't move after the throw, the ball would have been in his chest if it was 13 yards deeper. I agree with him. Unfortunately for the OP that doesn't make it a bad throw. 

[jrober38]

Drop.

 

Clay should have run back to the football and let him hit him in his chest. 

 

It shouldn't have been close. He just completely misread the flight of the ball. 

[MPT]

1 hour ago, pop gun said:

Simon and White are trying too hard to blame Allen for a bad throw when Clay dropped it. These guys are pathetic.

 

No they're not. They're saying what every reasonable person is saying. It should have been caught, but it could have also been a better pass.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

All he's saying is that if Clay didn't move after the throw, the ball would have been in his chest if it was 13 yards deeper. I agree with him. Unfortunately for the OP that doesn't make it a bad throw. 

 

My argument would be that when you're throwing across the field on the last play of the game and Clay that wide open....you throw to a general area where he can make a play.

The throw wasn't good, but not horrible either.  It was catchable but a tough catch.

 

I think Clay's problem is he tried to catch it in the endzone when he had time and room to go up further and get it.

 

I'd say it was 65% on Clay, 35% on Allen.

[Fan in Chicago]

42 minutes ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

As others have said, Clay misjudged the ball coming in, leading to the oh sh** dive and subsequent slip. With Allen's normal bullets you have to assume those guys first reaction is that it's not going to be short. Once the scramble started maybe he thought Allen was done for and didn't move back toward him because Allen did some amazing things to keep it alive. Clay should have been working back as soon as Allen broke outside the pocket and he should have realized that the cross field throw would not have a lot of mustard on it. If Clay was a rook, I could forgive all that, as a vet he needs to make the play. It's on him.

This is exactly why I pin this drop entirely on Clay. The QB was scrambling, Clay was wide open, Allen somehow gets it close to the EZ. The ball was traveling for a while with no pressure on Clay. He had adequate time to judge the ball and where he needed to be - inside the 5 yard line. Clay has no excuses. And esp in Miami where he could have caught it and proverbially thumbed his nose at the Dolphins and yet he came up real small. 

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

My argument would be that when you're throwing across the field on the last play of the game and Clay that wide open....you throw to a general area where he can make a play.

The throw wasn't good, but not horrible either.  It was catchable but a tough catch.

 

I think Clay's problem is he tried to catch it in the endzone when he had time and room to go up further and get it.

 

I'd say it was 65% on Clay, 35% on Allen.

Not so much on Allen as he wasnt sitting comfortably in the pocket waiting for someone to get open. It was a desperation throw, under pressure, in a non-ideal throwing position.

[HappyDays]

13 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

13 yards????  The ball hit Charles Clay's hands....how long do you think his arms are?

 

He joined the board 24 hours ago and his posts are 100% negative. I'm gonna go ahead and say that's not a coincidence.