Allen's Last Pass (12/2): Bad Pass or Drop?

[BuffaLoko]

15 hours ago, Romie said:

Really I think it was both.  Not the best pass, but there's dudes out there that would have pulled it off.

I would defer of calling this ¨not the best pass¨, in the context of an accountability discussion, when ¨my QB (Crying and all like TO)¨, did at least 3 OLEEE (bullfighter like) against the furious tuna LBers, before he threw it...Clay was asked to do just one half of that effort, and looking back to the video, I think he tiptoed because he wanted to catch the ball IN THE EZ! instead of going one step out of EZ and pulling the ball back!! IMHO a HUGE mental misstep for an 7.5 Mill-per guy!

Edited December 3, 2018 by BuffaLoko
spell

[Fan in Chicago]

"hands of Clay" . I dont know if I should laugh or cry. 

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article222522605.html

 

 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, teef said:

it wasn't perfect, or even pretty, but allen did what he could to put this team on his back and score points.  if/once the game slows down for him, allen could be a tremendous qb.

 

All I want every week is some progress and improvement. We are seeing that, and it’s more important than getting a win yesterday. I hope he can stay safe and keep growing into the role. He looked like a leader yesterday. 

[blacklabel]

Not the best throw but I don't think you can expect pinpoint accuracy after the kid just ran away from two pass rushers and then unloaded the ball to his right as he was running to his left. Sure, woulda been nice if the ball just floated right to Clay and hit him in the numbers right where he stood but either way, the ball hit him in the hands and he dropped it. Gotta catch that. Clay would tell you it's on him.

[PolishDave]

For years people complained we didn't have a QB that would throw a guy open.    Now we have a QB who throws a catchable, game winnable ball, to a spot where the only person who can catch it is the receiver - and fans whine the pass wasn't good enough.

 

It was a decent pass.   The receiver epically failed at his primary job duty because he was more worried about keeping his feet in the endzone rather than catching the ball first.

[Big Gun]

1 hour ago, MPT said:

 

No they're not. They're saying what every reasonable person is saying. It should have been caught, but it could have also been a better pass.

Given the circumstances and duress Allen was under, to chuck that ball across his body and field to have it hit Clay right in the hands and be dropped it is 100% on Clay. The pass was absolutely there, you can't argue that it wasn't.

 

Go outside and run to your left and try and throw anything back to your right and get back to us telling us how "easy" it was! 

[The Frankish Reich]

1 hour ago, 4BillsintheBurgh said:

As others have said, Clay misjudged the ball coming in, leading to the oh sh** dive and subsequent slip. With Allen's normal bullets you have to assume those guys first reaction is that it's not going to be short. Once the scramble started maybe he thought Allen was done for and didn't move back toward him because Allen did some amazing things to keep it alive. Clay should have been working back as soon as Allen broke outside the pocket and he should have realized that the cross field throw would not have a lot of mustard on it. If Clay was a rook, I could forgive all that, as a vet he needs to make the play. It's on him.

Yep. Like an outfielder playing deep and realizing too late that the ball hung up on him enough for him to charge in and make the catch ...

[Big Gun]

39 minutes ago, PolishDave said:

For years people complained we didn't have a QB that would throw a guy open.    Now we have a QB who throws a catchable, game winnable ball, to a spot where the only person who can catch it is the receiver - and fans whine the pass wasn't good enough.

 

It was a decent pass.   The receiver epically failed at his primary job duty because he was more worried about keeping his feet in the endzone rather than catching the ball first.

Agreed and to this, why was Clay hugging the endline? It's not like he could go back anymore to catch the ball. Had he been near the goalline he catches that for fun. Mental gaff on Clays part.

Edited December 3, 2018 by pop gun

[Phil The Thrill]

1 hour ago, MPT said:

 

No they're not. They're saying what every reasonable person is saying. It should have been caught, but it could have also been a better pass.

 

Not really....Howard said if he was to blame one person, he’d put the blame on Allen.  Shows he knows nothing about football, but we already knew this for years

[wnysteel]

it's really both, but mostly on Clay. probably 80-20. the throw wasn't great (in fact, i saw a few ducks from Allen yesterday).

 

my biggest issue is, why does Clay dive down instead of continuing to run back towards Allen? if he keeps running, he will be out of the end zone, but has a much better chance at catching. i can only assume he thought time was expiring and needed to catch the ball in the end zone. no other logical reason for it. 

[row_33]

10 minutes ago, wnysteel said:

it's really both, but mostly on Clay. probably 80-20. the throw wasn't great (in fact, i saw a few ducks from Allen yesterday).

 

my biggest issue is, why does Clay dive down instead of continuing to run back towards Allen? if he keeps running, he will be out of the end zone, but has a much better chance at catching. i can only assume he thought time was expiring and needed to catch the ball in the end zone. no other logical reason for it. 

 

oh no, he threw a few that didn't meet your demands

 

do you get this attitude playing Madden and pushing the reset button every time things don't go your way?

 

 

[wnysteel]

2 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

oh no, he threw a few that didn't meet your demands

 

do you get this attitude playing Madden and pushing the reset button every time things don't go your way?

 

 

you are barking up the wrong tree....sorry. i'm a big Allen proponent. just commenting that he had a few bad throws is all. and by bad, i mean ducks, not a tight spiral.

 

overall he was great yesterday

Edited December 3, 2018 by wnysteel

[dave mcbride]

Should Zay Jones caught the picture-perfect throw to him a play earlier despite mild-but-real interference (the type of interference that good receivers swat away like an annoying fly when they routinely make catches in that sort of situation)? 

[starrymessenger]

It was not a good pass in that Allen did not hit Clay with a perfect spiral between the numbers standing still by himself in the back of the end zone. But the thing is receivers and TEs have to make adjustments to catch the ball with regular frequency. And while not exactly a gimmie it was actually not that hard a catch for a NFL player to make. I have to think league wide in similar circumstances that ball is caught near 80% of the time. So 80% on Clay. Meanwhile Allen gets an A+ for escapability, extending the play, keeping his eyes downfield and finding a good target. In relative terms Clay was not being asked to do all that much. He's a highly paid professional. I'm sure he feels awful.

But what's more important than the outcome of that play is Allen's inaccuracy, especially when on the move. This is clearly the result of a problem with his throwing mechanics/footwork that has been flagged for improvement from the get go. It also is the reason why some of his throws flutter or are flat out ducks. Clearing this stuff up remains job 1 IMO.  Both his accuracy and his touch need to get better.

Outside of that, I don't see many posters or pundits saying this morning that Josh Allen should have been drafted in the third round or later. Josh Allen has the wherewithal to dominate on an NFL playing field much in the same way that he stood out as a man amongst boys as a WYO Cowboy (forget the stats). That is nothing short of ridiculous. So by now it should be evident to all exactly what the bet was when the Bills drafted him. As has been said many times, Allen's physical skillset for playing the position is elite. It's only about whether he can iron out the wrinkles in his game. I think there is a good chance that he can and will and if he does the Bills certainly have their franchise QB. 

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by starrymessenger

[Big Gun]

Just wondering about the people who say it was a bad pass, what was bad about it? It traveled almost 45 yards in the air about 3 yards deep into the endzone, what was bad about it? Was it not a perfect spiral, because I'm not getting what was so bad about the last pass.

 

Also had Clay caught that would people be saying what a great throw that was or what a great catch that was?

1 minute ago, starrymessenger said:

It was not a good pass in that Allen did not hit Clay with a perfect spiral between the numbers standing still by himself in the back of the end zone. But the thing is receivers and TEs have to make adjustments to catch the ball with regular frequency. And while not exactly a gimmie it was actually not that hard a catch for a NFL player to make. I have to think league wide in similar circumstances that ball is caught near 80% of the time. So 80% on Clay. Meanwhile Allen gets an A+ for escapability, extending the play, keeping his eyes downfield and finding a good target. In relative terms Clay was not being asked to do all that much. He's a highly paid professional. I'm sure he feels awful.

But what's more important than the outcome of that play is Allen's inaccuracy, especially when on the move. This is clearly the result of a problem with his throwing mechanics/footwork that has been flagged for improvement from the get go. It also is the reason why some of his throws flutter or are flat out ducks. Clearing this stuff up remains job 1 IMO.  Both his accuracy and his touch need to get better.

Outside of that, I don't see many posters or pundits saying this morning that Josh Allen should have been drafted in the third round or later. Josh Allen has the wherewithal to dominate on an NFL playing field exactly in the same way that he stood out as man amongst a WYO Cowboy (forget the stats). That is nothing short of ridiculous. So by now it should be evident to all exactly what the bet was when the Bills drafted him. As has been said many times, Allen's physical skillset for playing the position is elite. It's only about whether he can iron out the wrinkles in his game. I think there is a good chance that he can and will and if he does the Bills certainly have their franchise QB. 

 

 

 

Said it earlier, had the 4 obvious drops by WR that hit them square in both hands been caught and the last hail mary not been called (stupid coaching decision) Allens stats would have been 22-32 for 300+ yards and 3+ TDs

 

Just stop with the lack of accuracy stuff 

[starrymessenger]

7 minutes ago, pop gun said:

Just wondering about the people who say it was a bad pass, what was bad about it? It traveled almost 45 yards in the air about 3 yards deep into the endzone, what was bad about it? Was it not a perfect spiral, because I'm not getting what was so bad about the last pass.

 

Also had Clay caught that would people be saying what a great throw that was or what a great catch that was?

Said it earlier, had the 4 obvious drops by WR that hit them square in both hands been caught and the last hail mary not been called (stupid coaching decision) Allens stats would have been 22-32 for 300+ yards and 3+ TDs

 

Just stop with the lack of accuracy stuff 

 

Like I said, forget the stats (especially the one's that don't exist). I'll stop with the accuracy stuff when Josh cleans up his mechanics and becomes more consistent with it. If he can do that he's clearly franchise material. If he can't he will be limited and will not make the best use of his talent. People refer to the height of his ceiling. You want to keep the plays that make them say that and at the same time raise his floor so that the head scratchers become more the outliers. 

[NewEraBills]

Allen was running around for his life trying to buy time once he squared up and threw the football, it wasn't a perfect pass BUT it was a very catchable one.  Clay just showed why he's a mid-tier player and not an elite one.  An elite player snatches that with EASE.

[Alphadawg7]

I can’t fathom how anyone would classify that as a bad pass when factoring in all circumstances.  Clay lost his footing, which made the catch more difficult and resulted in him failing to make a play that you have to make.  

 

If QB success was predicated on perfect throws, few QBs could have ever played well.  The QBs job is to put the ball where only his receiver can make a play on the ball.  Not only did he do that under extreme duress from a long way away, but it wasn’t that hard of a catch to make, pretty basic scoop where Clay had both hands on it.  But Clay didn’t come back to the ball well and also lost his footing complicating the catch.  We did not have to have a TD either, clay could have come back more and helped Josh.  Plus even if he came back to 5 yard line he could have walked into endzone untouched.

 

I love that Josh took ownership, but this was on Clay in my book.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

Allen was running around for his life trying to buy time once he squared up and threw the football, it wasn't a perfect pass BUT it was a very catchable one.  Clay just showed why he's a mid-tier player and not an elite one.  An elite player snatches that with EASE.

 

A mid-tier player should have been able to catch that.  Hell anyone in the NFL should be able to catch that.  We're talking about the cream of the crop in football, not lower levels.

[berg1029]

It was both a bad pass and a drop. 

 

However..the fact that it was a catchable ball indicates that the bigger issue is the drop.