McDermott’s conservative garbage

[billsfan1959]

So where are we at this point - should McDermott be fired or not for this? I've lost track.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

He has no sense of time clock, in game management or when to challenge. You rarely see NFL coaches get better at this sort of thing either. 

[SoCal Deek]

21 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

He has no sense of time clock, in game management or when to challenge. You rarely see NFL coaches get better at this sort of thing either. 

Maybe he needs to let someone else do it. Every coach isn’t great at everything.

[greeneblitz]

This will be McDermott's downfall, same attitude as Rex, Jauron and Marrone, all of these guys still think defense wins games and they're all happy just to be ahead by a touchdown and try to run out the clock, at least to one degree or another. To where in todays NFL teams can easily score 20 plus points in 1 quarter.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

57 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Maybe he needs to let someone else do it. Every coach isn’t great at everything.

 

Andy Reid is still bad at this.

[Billsfan1972]

47 minutes ago, greeneblitz said:

This will be McDermott's downfall, same attitude as Rex, Jauron and Marrone, all of these guys still think defense wins games and they're all happy just to be ahead by a touchdown and try to run out the clock, at least to one degree or another. To where in todays NFL teams can easily score 20 plus points in 1 quarter.

Bang on.....  17 points and the Bills moving the ball shows the issues that we'll see over and over.  Great first 20 minutes vs. Min & NYJ and otherwise a slog every other game.  Does it really have to be that way?

[Rochesterfan]

15 hours ago, Perry Turtle said:

It's pretty standard to try to get in field goal position with a minute left in the half when your starting beyond your own 25 yardline.  The Bills weren't backed up on near go line.  Most teams would try a few chunk plays to get 40 yards or so to get into range.

 

On the  broadcast, Lofton was talking about sitting on the ball because it was too far to go for the TD.  Couldn't figure out why he was ignoring the FG, especially since the Bill's were getting the ball first in the 2nd half.

 

 

 

 

It it would be great if they had started beyond their 25.  I am sure many things would have been different, but after the kick-off and penalty they started at their own 10.

 

They ran 4 plays 2 runs and a pass to get a first down and a 3rd run before getting a play beyond the 25 yard line - with Tellers false start.  

 

The one play they ran where the snap was passed the Bills own 25 - was a 20 yard completion - a chunk play.  Every other play on that drive was inside their own 25.

 

The mistake was the timeout after the completion because either a run or a pass gets you a shot at the FG, but with only 5 seconds it had to be quick and down with the timeout and I am not sure all of the 1st year players on the offense were ready for that.

 

That really left the Hail Mary as the only option (once the time-out was used).

 

So I am not sure exactly what your complaint is in your thread - since once they got to your point on the field - they did exactly what you asked.  

 

Right?

Edited December 3, 2018 by Rochesterfan

[jrober38]

McDermott has never been a very good in game manager.

 

He regularly wastes challenges, doesn't utilize time outs properly, rarely looks for points before halftime if the clock is under 90 seconds, and loves punting on 4th and short inside opposition territory (he did it again yesterday on 4th and 2 from the Miami 48 yard line). 

 

McDermott gets his guys to play hard, and his players seem to respect him, but his conservative nature is really tiring. For a team that's not going to make the playoffs, there's no reason to be playing as conservatively as we do on offense. 

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

No problem with him punting it on 4th and 2 hoping the punter could pin them inside the 10 with how well our defense was playing in a field position game.  Although obvious, why not try and draw them Offside and if it doesn't work then you just take the delay of game to give your punter more field to work with?  I thought that sequence was fine and our punter of course botched it.

 

The end of the 2nd quarter was atrocious though.  Even with mismanagement of timeouts (blown challenge), you absolutely give Haushka a chance to make that 58 yarder.  Much better chance of him making that than getting a TD on a Hal Mary.  Only acceptable excuse for that decision is that Haushka says he broke his kicking leg doing his weird stretches.

 

I think normally you are right, but I am guessing based upon the 4th quarter FG of 55 yards that 58 was outside of his range in that direction and the coach new it.  The 55 yard miss would have barely cleared the upright If in the center - I am not sure he had the leg in that humidity to get 58.  Maybe I am wrong, but typically the kicker gives a maximum distance they are comfortable with and that expands a bit at the end of the game where they tried from 55.

[SoCal Deek]

9 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

I think normally you are right, but I am guessing based upon the 4th quarter FG of 55 yards that 58 was outside of his range in that direction and the coach new it.  The 55 yard miss would have barely cleared the upright If in the center - I am not sure he had the leg in that humidity to get 58.  Maybe I am wrong, but typically the kicker gives a maximum distance they are comfortable with and that expands a bit at the end of the game where they tried from 55.

The final mistake was not trying a quick out pattern with five seconds left. There was time and it would’ve shortened the field goal.

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

This point was brought up in the post-game radio show with Schopp & The Bulldog.

Perhaps that was you calling in?

 

The answer as to why we do this is what Schopp said: it's the way McDermott wants to play football.  He wants to slow the game down to a crawl, shorten it, play tight defense, and win every game 10-7.

 

I am of the opinion that this philosophy absolutely does not work in the NFL in 2018.  We are possibly THE MOST conservative/cautious team left in the league at this point.  Not good, if you're a Bills fan.

 

I couldn't agree with you more; we threw away that possession at the end of the half and that is losing football.  Which makes sense, given that we lost.

 

McDermott's penalty flag challenge was also bad, as almost ALL of his challenges have been since he arrived here.  We clearly do not have a competent system in place to ensure proper challenges and eliminate poor challenges.

 

It's another sign of bad coaching/lack of organization.

 

 

The highlighted is totally wrong. 

 

If Bill Belichick was watching the game today sitting next to you, he would have asked why the Bills aren't calling timeouts, as the OP did, in real time.

 

No hindsight there at all.

 

 

 

Are you sure about this?  

 

Because in the NE game at the half - the Vikings got the ball with under 2 minutes (1:57) to be exact and drove down the field.  They were at the NE 25 with almost 1:30 left.  Minnesota completed a pass in play and NE did not use a TIme-out - let 30 run off. Next play is a 5 yard run by Minnesota to the 22 - again no time-out by NE and another 30 seconds run off.  Then a completion and Minnesota uses a time-out. Another run out bounds and another completion with Minnesota using a time out. Then the touchdown with 15 seconds left and NE had all of their timeouts.

 

I think you missed the entire point and don’t like the coach do you are projecting - when McDermott actually used a timeout to conserve enough clock to try and make a play before the half and Belicheck did the exact opposite in his game and let a minute and 15 run off rather than use timeouts.

 

I think hindsight would actually help you a bit in this case.

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

The final mistake was not trying a quick out pattern with five seconds left. There was time and it would’ve shortened the field goal.

 

I agree - especially with the timeout.  I think the issue is you have a lot of guys that are 1st and 2nd year players and although a quick out would work - with 5 seconds they need to understand the entire situation and I think right now these guys are being coached on a lot of basics - route running - hitting specific depths - seeing things that the QB sees.  

 

You have an undrafted rookie, a 2nd year player in Zay, and a guy you picked up off a practice squad a few weeks ago as your primary WRs.  I think the coaching staff talks about and runs end of half plays, but I do not believe these young players have seen or prepared the way veterans do for these plays and it costs the team right now.

 

They will all be better for it in the future.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Rochesterfan

[papazoid]

poor clock management

 

poor play challenges ( 1 of 10)

 

claps way too much (maddening....lol)

 

says nothing interesting at pressers (even less than most)

 

get used to it......will likely get a second 5 year deal

 

 

[The Frankish Reich]

17 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

They need EJ Manuel for those hard counts. 

Did anyone actually think they’d snap the ball in that situation? Surely not the Dolphins defense. You’ve got nothing to lose, McClappy .... coach like it! 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

18 hours ago, Rc2catch said:

For me anyways he seems to base these kinds of calls on how the team is playing. 

When they are executing plays effectively he doesn’t seem to mind being aggressive. But when they’re struggling to run the simplest of plays and picking up penalties non stop he seems very scared to risk anything. You can look at it two ways, when the team is struggling maybe an aggressive playcall sparks them, or maybe an aggressive playcall causes more damage. 

I didn’t like the safety challenge, or waiting to call the timeout when there’s 10 seconds on the play clock before halftime. 

Being a newish coach still I expect these kinds of mistakes. And I prefer he learns from this stuff on a lost season than say when the games mean more in a real playoff hunt. 

I don’t want to see this team this year in a playoff game. Has embarrassment written all over it 

 

I can't agree that it's based on how the team is going because there's been a pattern of this going back to last year. The being a new coach thing was an excuse for him last year, one I don't really agree with. That's all about preparation and strategic thinking. But even if you did want to give him that, it's year 2 now. There's no way those should just be mistakes. I think it's more of his conservative nature, and I actually think that's less insulting to him. If it's literally that he's a "new coach" in year 2 and can't process a situation or what he wants to do fast enough...I think we have even bigger problems. I just don't like the conservative nature.

18 hours ago, MarkAF43 said:

 

 

DId you just call WGR?

 

Haha, no, I'm out of state and have never really listened to WGR. I tried it out a couple of times but just kind of found it boring. I listen to stuff on the Ringer the most often. 

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Are you sure about this?  

 

Because in the NE game at the half - the Vikings got the ball with under 2 minutes (1:57) to be exact and drove down the field.  They were at the NE 25 with almost 1:30 left.  Minnesota completed a pass in play and NE did not use a TIme-out - let 30 run off. Next play is a 5 yard run by Minnesota to the 22 - again no time-out by NE and another 30 seconds run off.  Then a completion and Minnesota uses a time-out. Another run out bounds and another completion with Minnesota using a time out. Then the touchdown with 15 seconds left and NE had all of their timeouts.

 

I think you missed the entire point and don’t like the coach do you are projecting - when McDermott actually used a timeout to conserve enough clock to try and make a play before the half and Belicheck did the exact opposite in his game and let a minute and 15 run off rather than use timeouts.

 

I think hindsight would actually help you a bit in this case.

 

Different Scenarios:

 

1. Bills were losing in the game and were about to be down either 4 or 8. (It ended up being 8.) Where NE was up 10-0

2. The field position. Miami was inside the 10 where Minnesota was just on the fringe of the redzone. That is a huge difference as Miami can literally control the clock however they want, where Minnesota still obviously still needs to move at a quicker pace and can't let the clock bleed down on every play. If Minnesota was inside the 10 and they were running the ball with 1:00 left, I can almost guarantee the Pats would call a TO even with that 10-0 lead.

 

 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

18 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I'd love to see evidence of any team doing this?  I can't recall seeing that happen. In the 2nd half in the last two minutes of the game, yes,, of If they were inside the Miami 10, then yes, makes sense.  But you're taking alot of risk in giving Miami a lot more time to run run plays.  They could lose 10 on an offensive holding penalty, then next play a defensive holding so automatic 1st down.  By taking timeouts, you give the team time to run more plays, more time to potentially score.

 

Give me examples as I can't recall a team calling a time out in the fist half when the other team is driving deep,  key here 1st half and driving deep.

 

Teams do this all the time. Miami was  with almost 2 minutes left and still had all 3 of their timeouts. That's an eternity when you're already that deep, and if they needed any extra time for any of their plays, they had their own timeouts to use. Time for them was not an issue. There is literally no reason for us NOT to call timeouts. You'd get yourself an extra possession at the end of the half with a good amount of time without sacrificing anything to the opposition. McDermott literally chose not to do that. 

18 hours ago, Bill_with_it said:

This is an ll around bad thread. Too much hindsight. There is literally no way any of you questioning the end of the first half decisions by Sean thought the team would make it to the 40 considering the first half. Too many penalties and struggling to move the ball. Alot of the last call there was on the OC; numerous times theough the game Josh is looking to the sidelines motioning that the call needs to come in quicker. This game isnt on the HC.

 

It's not hindsight at all, in any way.  I never said we would have scored if he had called the timeouts. I'm saying he butchered the OPPORTUNITY for us to potentially score. And I wouldn't blame McDermott if Josh had more time and more plays on that drive and threw a pick-6. If that happens in that spot, oh well, I can live with that because strategically it is still the right play. You still have to have confidence in your offense and give them that extra possession with as much time as possible.  

 

No matter what would have happened, it is horrendous game management to not call timeouts there to give us a possession at the end of the half with more time on the clock. And yes, if the calls aren't coming in faster even if it's from the OC, that is ultimately on the head coach. That's why he's called the HEAD coach. The OC is an extension of him and answers to him. 

Edited December 3, 2018 by HomeskillitMoorman

[HomeskillitMoorman]

18 hours ago, MJS said:

I've watched a lot of football in my life. I can tell you that every coach makes game management mistakes. Every single one.

 

I haven't seen anything to tell me that McDermott is worse at managing a game than other coaches.

 

Coaches make mistakes because there are an infinite amount of variables to consider. Fans usually look at the situations with hindsight.

 

The hindsight nonsense is such a cop-out here. What part of this is hindsight? Maybe we end up scoring points if McDermott uses his timeouts there and we have more time on that last drive. Maybe Josh throws a pick-6. I'm not pretending to know what would have happened. What we DO know is that it was a possession wasted because we ran out of time because he didn't call those timeouts when there was no drawback to not using them. He left a possession on the table, that's not hindsight, that's fact. 

17 hours ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

There are not.  Time left. Time outs left. Field position.  Which team has the ball.  There is an optimal decision about taking/ not taking times outs for each situation.  Good coaches don't use their gut or figure it out on the fly.  They know exactly what they are going to do in a given situation before the game begins. 

 

Boom. Can't say it any better or more concisely than that. 

17 hours ago, MJS said:

 

Sounds wonderful. Doesn't actually happen in games.

 

Yes it does. All the time. Good coaches take advantage of getting an extra possession wherever they can, especially in the scenario we were in where there was literally no drawback to it. 

[Estro]

18 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

LOL I was just about to ask that

No that was me that called WGR.

 

The poster is right.  McDermott cost the Bills a scoring chance by not using his timeouts.  Totally unacceptable.   The thing that bugs me the most is he won't learn from it, he might not even realize he botched it.  He'll pour through the film and analyze all the x's and o's, but will totally overlook the fact he declined the opportunity to score at the end of the half solely through his inept clock management.  

 

Not 1 question about it from the media after the game either.  

 

Sean you guys had 5 seconds left from the +42 to end the half and attempted a hailmary?  Do you wish you had used timeouts when the Phins had the ball on the previous drive and given your team an extra minute or so to possibly score? 

 

Seems like a ? He should be asked at the very least.  I'm not sure he would even understand the ?, which would be pretty telling in and of itself.

[Billsfan1972]

The Bills had 2 timeouts (3 if not for the terrible challenge).  They could have definitely used the clock better and getr a 2 for 1 (Basketball analogy) as they had the last possession of the first half and were getting the kick to start the second half.  

 

This is all about seeing what you have in Allen and figuring it out.  Playing for 14-10 games with Allen is a waste of time.

 

Now the 4th & two at midfield.  A good coach either has a play and does a quick snap and looks like they are 100% committed or runs the play.  You are trying to get the other team to jump or burn a TO.  Everyone know McD isn't doing anything.

[The Poojer]

thing that pisses me off most is this isn't the first game where we stunk up the place in the first half and came out the second half a different team.  Why not make in game adjustments instead of doing it at halftime.  With all the coaching personnel it shouldn't be difficult to be that dynamic while the game is going on.  And it's almost laughable that 95%+(?) of our first down plays are hand off to RB...teams know that and don't have to do too much to game plan.  it's frustrating as hell