Josh Allen's progress

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Do you find it easy to see how Allen is progressing with his ability to read defenses or see the field when he’s either running for his life because the o-line can’t pass block or his receivers aren’t getting separation? Better players and more time in the pocket allows us to see his progression in critical areas. We won’t get to see that with what we currently have.

I dont get it....are you trying to give yourself a excuse to not watch the rest of the games this season?   This is all we got.....

[formerlyofCtown]

9 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Do you find it easy to see how Allen is progressing with his ability to read defenses or see the field when he’s either running for his life because the o-line can’t pass block or his receivers aren’t getting separation? Better players and more time in the pocket allows us to see his progression in critical areas. We won’t get to see that with what we currently have.

I think the way he is handling those situations is very important.  I want to see how he is in a fire not a hottub.

 

I think we are seeing him elevate the play around him on both sides of the ball and if you dont think thats important then you only need to look at our QBs since Kelly (with the exception being Flutie).

Edited December 4, 2018 by formerlyofCtown

[Bangarang]

23 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I think the way he is handling those situations is very important.  I want to see how he is in a fire not a hottub.

 

A QB consistently running for his life is not what you want to see. Sure it’s exciting to see him make great throws on the run but it’s not how you have a consistently good offense.

 

Quote

 

I think we are seeing him elevate the play around him on both sides of the ball and if you dont think thats important then you only need to look at our QBs since Kelly (with the exception being Flutie).

 

Why would you amquestion if I think that’s important? It’s obviously something you’d want to see out of your QB.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Bangarang

[formerlyofCtown]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

 

A QB consistently running for his life is not what you want to see. Sure it’s exciting to see him make great throws on the run but it’s not how you have a consistently good offense.

 

 

Why would you assume I don’t think that’s important?

I would prefer to see a better Oline.  But what im getting at is how he has performed under the circumstances tells me he is legit and he will develope to his top potential.  True strength is found in adversity my friend.  If he didnt perform under the circumstances I wouldnt hold it against him.  What youre really talking about is overall team developement.  Case in point you said "its not how you have a consistently good offense" and I agree but, this thread isnt about the developement of the offense.  Its about Josh Allens developement and its happening in spite of a less than ideal supporting cast.  I get it youre a stats guy.  You have to see stats to recognise developement.  Robert Woods performance was no surprise to me.  I recognised how good he was while here.  I also wasnt worried about Zay or Lawson.

[Bangarang]

12 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

I would prefer to see a better Oline.  But what im getting at is how he has performed under the circumstances tells me he is legit and he will develope to his top potential.  

 

Maybe. Maybe not.

 

Quote

True strength is found in adversity my friend.  If he didnt perform under the circumstances I wouldnt hold it against him.  What youre really talking about is overall team developement.

 

No, I’m not.

 

Quote

 Case in point you said "its not how you have a consistently good offense" and I agree but, this thread isnt about the developement of the offense.  Its about Josh Allens developement and its happening in spite of a less than ideal supporting cast.  

 

Allen having more talent around him so he can develop is how you have a consistently good offense. This is about Allen. I really don’t get what you’re arguing here. I’m saying we need to put more talent around him so he can continue to progress.

 

Quote

I get it youre a stats guy.  You have to see stats to recognise developement.  Robert Woods performance was no surprise to me.  I recognised how good he was while here.  I also wasnt worried about Zay or Lawson.

 

I appreciate stats and think they serve a purpose but not once have I mentioned stats in this thread so I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make here.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Bangarang

[formerlyofCtown]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

 

Maybe. Maybe not.

 

 

No, I’m not.

 

 

Allen having more talent around him so he can develop is how you have a consistently good offense. This is about Allen. I really don’t get what you’re arguing here. I’m saying we need to put more talent around him so he can continue to progress.

 

 

I appreciate stats and think they serve a purpose but not once have I mentioned stats in this thread so I’m not really sure what point you’re trying to make here.

If you quote it all together it will make more sense to you.

[Logic]

It is easy to see the progress Allen has made this season.

Any notion that he "won't progress unless/until he stops running", or that he hasn't progressed a bunch ALREADY, is false in my opinion.

First, let me get this out of the way: He has a long way to go and a lot of areas of needed improvement before he's where he needs to be. Nobody better accuse me of being an Allen apologist. My post history shows that I was firmly in the "anyone but Allen" camp leading up to the draft.

That having been said, Allen has progressed in key areas as the season has gone on, particularly since he came back from injury. He's going through his reads faster, setting his protections and IDing defenses better, audibling into run plays when the box is light, leading his receivers better, throwing with better anticipation and touch, displaying more fearlessness when making tight window throws, trusting his receivers better, throwing short passes and screens more accurately, and showing improved pocket presence and poise. That's a TON of improvement across just 7 games. It also appears that the mid-season month on the bench did him wonders.

Long way to go, as I said, but he has shown tremendous progress.

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Logic

[ghostwriter]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

It is easy to see the progress Allen has made this season.

Any notion that he "won't progress unless/until he stops running", or that he hasn't progressed a bunch ALREADY, is false in my opinion.

First, let me get this out of the way: He has a long way to go and a lot of areas of needed improvement before he's where he needs to be. Nobody better accuse me of being an Allen apologist. My post history shows that I was firmly in the "anyone but Allen" camp leading up to the draft.

That having been said, Allen has progressed in key areas as the season has gone on, particularly since he came back from injury. He's going through his reads faster, setting his protections and IDing defenses better, audibling into run plays when the box is light, leading his receivers better, throwing with better anticipation and touch, displaying more fearlessness when making tight window throws, trusting his receivers better, throwing short passes and screens more accurately, and showing improved pocket presence and poise. That's a TON of improvement across just 7 games. It also appears that the mid-season month on the bench did him wonders.

Long way to go, as I said, but he has shown tremendous progress.

 

Allen makes plays few can make. Allen just needs to master the short attack. He's gotten a lot better there but some of it is roster/personnel. When your RB gets dropped like a sack of potatoes every time you throw to him? Yeah, you look a lot worse than you are. If you were to upgrade that OL and gave him 2-3 backs he can throw to he'll look like the GOAT. Allen is so gifted he always goes for the difficult throw, there needs to be more balance. Sometimes you need to take the easy 5yds. Too bad there isn't a RB on the roster that can do that for him.

[2003Contenders]

In addition to his physical attributes that have been well on display, I love his intangibles as well.

 

You can see the way the veteran players around him respond to his leadership and contagious positive attitude. I guarantee the way in which he accepted the blame for the last pass of the game falling incomplete did not go unnoticed in the locker room.

 

I would not be surprised to see Clay (or even KB) step up this week and makes some plays for the team.

 

 

[Commish]

Chad Pennington on 1 Bills Live had the following thought: Allen's next step is to learn to be a three dimensional thrower, that is, learning to put arc on the ball to get it over a defender that's immediately between the QB and his receiver. 

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, Roch-A-Bill said:

Chad Pennington on 1 Bills Live had the following thought: Allen's next step is to learn to be a three dimensional thrower, that is, learning to put arc on the ball to get it over a defender that's immediately between the QB and his receiver. 

 

This missed throw to Foster is an example of what he was referring to.

 

 

[Magox]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

This missed throw to Foster is an example of what he was referring to.

 

 

 

That was his most inaccurate pass of the game.

[jrober38]

I don't think Allen has shown much progress as a passer from the pocket. He's essentially the same now as he was at the beginning of the season.

 

I do however think he's shown progress on the mental side of the game in terms of how he approaches things.  Allen has quickly figured out that he's at the top of the food chain in the NFL.

 

He's bigger, stronger, and faster than the guys assigned with stopping him. At the beginning of the season, I think he was a bit timid, and didn't realize what he could do physically. Now I feel like he's figured out that he can outrun linemen and linebackers, and as a result he's most comfortable freelancing, running around, buying time, waiting for guys to get open for huge plays. This has been a big change in his attitude. 

 

What he's doing has been increasingly effective because he's such a gifted athlete. He thrives operating in chaos where DBs are asked to cover his receivers for 4+ seconds and he's excellent at throwing on the run. This progress has mostly been a result of a changed mentality by Allen.

 

As a pocket passer, I don't think there's been a lot of improvement. He still misses throws from time to time and struggles a lot when asked to throw with touch over defenders. He's got a cannon, but rarely connects on deep balls that require touch. If he can improve on these throws, he should wind up being pretty good.

 

The key is that he needs to improve from the pocket. Allen isn't going to be 23 years old with a fresh body and 4.6 speed forever. After the hits start to pile up, he'll slow down a bit, and he won't be able to buy the time he's currently able to buy outside the pocket. At that point he'll need to have figured out how to operate efficiently from the pocket or he'll be sunk as an NFL QB. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by jrober38

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[VW82]

20 minutes ago, Magox said:

 

That was his most inaccurate pass of the game.

 

That wasn't close to being his most inaccurate pass. The INT, the one hopper to KB, and the floater along the sideline that sailed way long (and was called back by penalty) were more of the OMG WTF variety. This one was just a regular bad pass. Lots of QBs miss that one. 

Edited December 4, 2018 by VW82

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Bangarang]

9 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I dont get it....are you trying to give yourself a excuse to not watch the rest of the games this season?   This is all we got.....

 

No, all I’m saying is that it will be easier to see how he’s progressing in certain areas when we has better protection and better receivers to throw to...

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

6 hours ago, jrober38 said:

I don't think Allen has shown much progress as a passer from the pocket. He's essentially the same now as he was at the beginning of the season.

 

I do however think he's shown progress on the mental side of the game in terms of how he approaches things.  Allen has quickly figured out that he's at the top of the food chain in the NFL.

 

He's bigger, stronger, and faster than the guys assigned with stopping him. At the beginning of the season, I think he was a bit timid, and didn't realize what he could do physically. Now I feel like he's figured out that he can outrun linemen and linebackers, and as a result he's most comfortable freelancing, running around, buying time, waiting for guys to get open for huge plays. This has been a big change in his attitude. 

 

What he's doing has been increasingly effective because he's such a gifted athlete. He thrives operating in chaos where DBs are asked to cover his receivers for 4+ seconds and he's excellent at throwing on the run. This progress has mostly been a result of a changed mentality by Allen.

 

As a pocket passer, I don't think there's been a lot of improvement. He still misses throws from time to time and struggles a lot when asked to throw with touch over defenders. He's got a cannon, but rarely connects on deep balls that require touch. If he can improve on these throws, he should wind up being pretty good.

 

The key is that he needs to improve from the pocket. Allen isn't going to be 23 years old with a fresh body and 4.6 speed forever. After the hits start to pile up, he'll slow down a bit, and he won't be able to buy the time he's currently able to buy outside the pocket. At that point he'll need to have figured out how to operate efficiently from the pocket or he'll be sunk as an NFL QB. 

 

Hopefully this doesn’t upset fans, but your entire breakdown just brought back how I used to recall Jake Locker.

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Respect Pennington's opinion. 

 

Very intelligent guy. Thought he was going to be very good for a long time until his rotator cuff issues. 

 

I liked how Pennington summed it up way better than I did.

 

”De-Athletle” Josh.  It will help you grow from being a good player into a good quarterback.

 

thats all the peopel who say Allen needs to run less were trying to say

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Subscription Required for Full Access:

 

Of the five quarterbacks selected in the first round of the 2018 NFL Draft, Josh Allen was seen as the biggest project. Unlike many of his fellow draftees, Allen didn’t play Power Five competition regularly and when he did, he didn’t play well. In three games versus Power Five schools, Allen registered one touchdown and eight interceptions and a 50 percent completion rate.

 

When it came to the nuances of the QB position, Allen had a long way to go, but there were times in college where his athleticism or rocket arm took over. In the 21-17 loss to the Dolphins, that version of Allen rose up, this time against NFL level competition. Allen accounted for 88 percent of the Bills offense, a unit that ranks 31st in Football Outsiders DVOA efficiency metric.

 

Allen’s 54.5 percent completion rate in the Miami game is not going to win over box score scouts, but the numbers don’t reflect the growth that people who watched his college film and the game on Sunday have seen.

 

Early in the game, there were several opportunities for Allen to simply take what the defense gave him, but for whatever reason, he chose to either scramble or throw it away. This is a common problem with Allen because he does look to get chunk plays by trusting his arm.

 

On 2nd and 12 late in the first quarter, offensive coordinator Brian Daboll dials up a basic concept known as a ‘Shallow cross.’ It’s a concept Allen struggled with the first half of the season and one that I covered in early October. The down and distance should put Allen in the mindset that he needs to get the ball out to either WR Zay Jones or TE Charles Clay to at least set up a manageable 3rd down. Clay is running a hook route right over the ball and Jones is running the crossing route. Allen is reading the linebacker level. If they gain depth with the hook route, then the cross by Jones is wide open. That is exactly what happens, but Allen fails to get rid of it. He does face pressure as Jeremiah Sirles gets driven into his lap, but the rookie QB needed to do one of two things. Either get rid of it as soon as he hits the top of his drop or keep his base, slide to his right and get it to Jones. A lot of Allen’s issues can be traced back to how he transfers his weight when manipulating the pocket or during a throw. You can see him take a slight step to his left as his back foot hit, so now he is not in a position to smoothly slide or deliver an accurate ball. He is nearly forced to escape the pocket, but no harm done with the nine-yard gain.