Ittakestime Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 2:55 PM, Kemp said: Who is a comparable to Allen in terms of "raw" in college that went on to a great NFL career? Doesn't "raw" mean not very good? Expand Great NFL career? There has been zero QBs with that god awful college stats that have become great 1
billsfan1959 Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 5:01 PM, Ittakestime said: Great NFL career? There has been zero QBs with that god awful college stats that have become great Expand Brett Favre and Matt Ryan say hello....
LSHMEAB Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 6:12 PM, billsfan1959 said: Brett Favre and Matt Ryan say hello.... Expand Matt Ryan had a prolific yet turnover prone senior season. 4000 yards and 31 TD's. JA never did that. Brett Favre however, SUCKED in college. Amazing that the Falcons would make such a great move taking him in the 2nd round and then make an equally horrific move trading said player away.
billsfan1959 Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 6:49 PM, LSHMEAB said: Matt Ryan had a prolific yet turnover prone senior season. 4000 yards and 31 TD's. JA never did that. Brett Favre however, SUCKED in college. Amazing that the Falcons would make such a great move taking him in the 2nd round and then make an equally horrific move trading said player away. Expand Matt Ryan threw the ball 654 times for his 4000+ yds. The most attempts Josh Allen had in a season was 373 (281 less attempts and still 3000+ yds). In that season, he had a higher Y/A, AY/A, TD to Attempt ratio (only 3 less TDs on 281 less attempts), and QB rating than Ryan had in his 4000+yds year. Not to mention that was Ryan's third full season of college ball. 1
LSHMEAB Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 6:57 PM, billsfan1959 said: Matt Ryan threw the ball 654 times for his 4000+ yds. The most attempts Josh Allen had in a season was 373 (281 less attempts and still 3000+ yds). In that season, he had a higher Y/A, AY/A, TD to Attempt ratio (only 3 less TDs on 281 less attempts), and QB rating than Ryan had in his 4000+yds year. Not to mention that was Ryan's third full season of college ball. Expand And Ryan was playing in the ACC as opposed to the MW, but never mind that. QB's that aren't prolific in college do not have a good track record in the NFL. That's a fact. Didn't create the fact. Didn't cherrypick info. Just stating a very basic fact. Hopefully Allen bucks the trend. Interesting you went into defensive mode as opposed to noting that Favre indeed sucked at Southern Miss. Why not cling to the positive anomaly? There's always a chance.
billsfan1959 Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 7:01 PM, LSHMEAB said: And Ryan was playing in the ACC as opposed to the MW, but never mind that. QB's that aren't prolific in college do not have a good track record in the NFL. That's a fact. Didn't create the fact. Didn't cherrypick info. Just stating a very basic fact. Hopefully Allen bucks the trend. Interesting you went into defensive mode as opposed to noting that Favre indeed sucked at Southern Miss. Why not cling to the positive anomaly? There's always a chance. Expand What level of success any QB in the history of the NFL achieved has absolutely no relevance to how successful Josh Allen will or will not be. Zero. My post regarding Ryan and Favre were in response to a poster saying no QB ever was successful in the NFL that had similar college stats to Josh Allen. Wrong.
Socal-805 Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 Josh Allen is not the answer. Lowest rated QB in league with over 100 attempts. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2018&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING
26CornerBlitz Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 7:21 PM, Socal-805 said: Josh Allen is not the answer. Lowest rated QB in league with over 100 attempts. http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2018&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING Expand It's far too early for this kind of final declaration on Allen. Linking his rookie stats with no context is the worst kind of boxscore scouting.
HappyDays Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 2:55 PM, Kemp said: Who is a comparable to Allen in terms of "raw" in college that went on to a great NFL career? Expand It's early but Mahomes is the obvious answer. In college he had poor footwork and poor decision making, and he had no experience in a pro system. He was developed for a full season and now looks like a different player. Not saying Allen will end up putting up Mahomes's numbers next year but yes raw QBs can develop with time. Allen has already made progress since Wyoming. They're bringing him along slowly, as they should.
Socal-805 Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 7:23 PM, 26CornerBlitz said: It's far too early for this kind of final declaration on Allen. Linking his rookie stats with no context is the worst kind of boxscore scouting. Expand NO, Not true. The accuracy was a huge issue in college, and continues to be. This was a KNOWN issue. Don't pretend it wasn't. Don;t throw/play the "context" card and "stats" card at this. 1 year in he has the SAME exact problems.
dickleyjones Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/24/2018 at 7:10 PM, LSHMEAB said: There are plenty of posts that assume he's going to drastically improve. That's pretty much the same thing. He needs to improve and he will isn't much different than he doesn't need to improve. Expand with logic like that, how could i disagree? true = false, hurray! On 12/24/2018 at 9:53 PM, JoPar_v2 said: There are plenty of posters here that defend the guy to the death. Which is a bit weird when he has shown flashes but hasn’t really proven anything yet. Again, if you haven’t seen or acknowledged these idiots you’re either oblivious or one of them. No time for homers and/or retards. Expand your hyperbole and assumptions do not serve your argument well. i'm talking about your "retarded" post. the one where you said posters say allen does not need to improve.
26CornerBlitz Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 7:41 PM, Socal-805 said: NO, Not true. The accuracy was a huge issue in college, and continues to be. This was a KNOWN issue. Don't pretend it wasn't. Don;t throw/play the "context" card and "stats" card at this. 1 year in he has the SAME exact problems. Expand You're simply ignoring the improvement he's shown from Wyoming not that he doesn't have things to work on. He like all rookie QBs have a learning curve, but he has flashed the ability to be a good NFL QB who can succeed with a good supporting cast.
LSHMEAB Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 2:20 PM, Magox said: Foster definitely touched the ball but it would have been a tough catch to make, however Foster did slightly mistimed his jump and he could have made the catch. I wont blame him for it because it would have been a phenomenal catch. The ball placement was about a foot or two too much to the inside. The Logan play should have been caught and most decent TE's will make that play 8 out of 10 opportunities. Expand Completely disagree that a decent TE makes that catch 8/10 times. Thomas could have made the play, but it would have been a great catch. Not a highlight reel catch, but a great one. Josh's arm strength is a definite plus but it also puts receivers in tough positions on occasion. This was one of those times. The pic everyone keeps displaying gives a distorted view of the play. Ball was coming at Thomas HOT and he had just made his move towards it. A TOP TE probably makes that catch 50 percent of the time.
Socal-805 Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 7:44 PM, 26CornerBlitz said: You're simply ignoring the improvement he's shown from Wyoming not that he doesn't have things to work on. He like all rookie QBs have a learning curve, but he has flashed the ability to be a good NFL QB who can succeed with a good supporting cast. Expand He has one "1" game this year with more TDs than INTs. When is he going to begin completing passes? I'm asking... He's flashed the ability to run, that's about it.
26CornerBlitz Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 8:01 PM, Socal-805 said: He has one "1" game this year with more TDs than INTs. When is he going to begin completing passes? I'm asking... He's flashed the ability to run, that's about it. Expand You're still talking stats that only tell you so much while I'm talking about pre and post snap reading of defenses, throwing with timing, anticipation, and accuracy within the structure of play design. He also does well when plays break down to create with his arm and legs. He's obviously not consistent as one might expect and he also needs a better OL and receiving corps to maximize his ability. You should take a look at this video that was posted earlier if you haven't already done so.
Socal-805 Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 8:05 PM, 26CornerBlitz said: You're still talking stats that only tell you so much while I'm talking about pre and post snap reading of defenses, throwing with timing, anticipation, and accuracy within the structure of play design. He also does well when plays break down to create with his arm and legs. He's obviously not consistent as one might expect and he also needs a better OL and receiving corps to maximize his ability. Expand I've seen some All-22 video breakdown of him exhibiting some of those attributes: true.
Kemp Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 7:32 PM, HappyDays said: It's early but Mahomes is the obvious answer. In college he had poor footwork and poor decision making, and he had no experience in a pro system. He was developed for a full season and now looks like a different player. Not saying Allen will end up putting up Mahomes's numbers next year but yes raw QBs can develop with time. Allen has already made progress since Wyoming. They're bringing him along slowly, as they should. Expand You can't seriously be comparing Allen and Mahomes in college. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/patrick-mahomes-1.html You were kidding, right? 1
John from Riverside Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 7:01 PM, LSHMEAB said: And Ryan was playing in the ACC as opposed to the MW, but never mind that. QB's that aren't prolific in college do not have a good track record in the NFL. That's a fact. Didn't create the fact. Didn't cherrypick info. Just stating a very basic fact. Hopefully Allen bucks the trend. Interesting you went into defensive mode as opposed to noting that Favre indeed sucked at Southern Miss. Why not cling to the positive anomaly? There's always a chance. Expand I feel like there are enough outliers for josh Allen that there is a very good chance he becomes a good qb
DuckyBoys Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 7:50 PM, LSHMEAB said: Completely disagree that a decent TE makes that catch 8/10 times. Thomas could have made the play, but it would have been a great catch. Not a highlight reel catch, but a great one. Josh's arm strength is a definite plus but it also puts receivers in tough positions on occasion. This was one of those times. The pic everyone keeps displaying gives a distorted view of the play. Ball was coming at Thomas HOT and he had just made his move towards it. A TOP TE probably makes that catch 50 percent of the time. Expand Has anyone make a great play for Allen this year? Has Logan Thomas ever made a great catch for the Bills? You watch any of the high powered offenses and there are two, three great plays made by the skill guys for the qb each and every week.
LSHMEAB Posted December 25, 2018 Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/25/2018 at 10:27 PM, DuckyBoys said: Has anyone make a great play for Allen this year? Has Logan Thomas ever made a great catch for the Bills? You watch any of the high powered offenses and there are two, three great plays made by the skill guys for the qb each and every week. Expand We don't have a single elite or even above average receiver just like we didn't in 2017. It's a problem. I was specifically referencing the Logan Thomas play in the Pats game. Not sure anyone would ever confuse Logan Thomas with a great tight end.
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