Atta Boy Josh - What a stud

[Dan]

He got the ball back with 2:33 left in the game.  No time outs, down by 4.  Needed to got 90 yards for the win.   He got us within 1 dropped pass of the win.  That... Is impressive.   Its been quite some time since we seen a QB carry the team in the final 2 minutes like that.   Color me impressed and looking forward to seeing him grow and lead our team for decades to come.

[peterpan]

4 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

 As was the back shoulder jones couldn’t reel in.  This season is a success.  We finally have a franchise QB.  Get a couple of receivers in the offseason and we are in business. 

It was a great throw, but he also had either foster or McKenzie WIDE open underneath on what was a 10-15 yard out. 

2 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Better find some real lineman, a big concern I think people miss

Something tells me this regime doesn't value the OL too highly.  I wouldn't expect a huge investment in it this off-season.  Like no round 1 or 2 draft pick and no huge FA signing either.  

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, peterpan said:

It was a great throw, but he also had either foster or McKenzie WIDE open underneath on what was a 10-15 yard out. 

Something tells me this regime doesn't value the OL too highly.  I wouldn't expect a huge investment in it this off-season.  Like no round 1 or 2 draft pick and no huge FA signing either.  

 

I disagree with that statement and think they'll concentrate on getting Josh better O-linemen and pass catchers.

[Kelly the Dog]

22 minutes ago, Dan said:

He got the ball back with 2:33 left in the game.  No time outs, down by 4.  Needed to got 90 yards for the win.   He got us within 1 dropped pass of the win.  That... Is impressive.   Its been quite some time since we seen a QB carry the team in the final 2 minutes like that.   Color me impressed and looking forward to seeing him grow and lead our team for decades to come.

And had the nice pass overturned that would have been first and goal at the five.

 

Granted, it would have been a terrific catch, and I think the refs made the right call, but it was a very good back shoulder throw.

[njbuff]

4 hours ago, PearlHowardman said:

Josh Allen has been playing competitive football for many years now.  HS, Jr. College, Wyoming, now with the Buffalo Bills.

 

His pass accuracy has never improved.

 

Sorry!

 

 

Alos, Allen has had very little in terms of support and you can see that he presses out there at times which affects accuracy supremely.

 

Finally, if Allen finally gets some support on the field, a true evaluation can commence.

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

And had the nice pass overturned that would have been first and goal at the five.

 

Granted, it would have been a terrific catch, and I think the refs made the right call, but it was a very good back shoulder throw.

 

Where there was clear PI.

[Dan]

19 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

And had the nice pass overturned that would have been first and goal at the five.

 

Granted, it would have been a terrific catch, and I think the refs made the right call, but it was a very good back shoulder throw.

Agreed.  Allen did everything you wanna see a QB do.  And I don't really fault Zay on that catch. It was a tough one and he did his best there.  No QB throws every pass with perfect placement and timing.  But good teams have receivers that make an effort and catch some of those passes. Its the lackadaisical effort by #13 and 85, week in and week out that's loosing games for this team.

[billmon06]

Are there existing statistics, regarding any NFL quarterback’s passing stats, that separate out dropped passes from incomplete passes ?   I read that “dropped vs incomplete” pass argument often about Josh Allen’s completion percentage on TBD, but I suppose this could apply to any  quarterback.  Just wondering.

[Kelly the Dog]

25 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Where there was clear PI.

Yup.

2 minutes ago, billmon06 said:

Are there existing statistics, regarding any NFL quarterback’s passing stats, that separate out dropped passes from incomplete passes ?   I read that “dropped vs incomplete” pass argument often about Josh Allen’s completion percentage on TBD, but I suppose this could apply to any  quarterback.  Just wondering.

"Drops" is a stupid stat IMO, simply because what one person considers a drop, the next considers it a bad pass or would have been a great catch he just missed it.

[CincyBillsFan]

3 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

 An off-season where the Bills add capable offensive lineman,  2 or 3 more weapons at WR/TE, and where the coaches can really work with him and develop the offense around his skills and you will see, everyone will see. 

 

 

Heck, I'll settle for an off season where he takes most of the first team snaps in practice! 

14 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Yup.

"Drops" is a stupid stat IMO, simply because what one person considers a drop, the next considers it a bad pass or would have been a great catch he just missed it.

 

Watching a lot of NFL & College football helps define what a "drop" is for me.  And the one thing I'm not seeing from Bills TE's/receivers this year are GREAT catches.  Think about it, the best catch of a Josh Allen pass was by Demarco in the Chargers game!  Heck yesterday in the college football championship games I saw guys making awesome catches all over the place.  In the NFL the QB's job is to get the ball close to where the receiver can make a play on it.  Receivers who DON'T MAKE AMAZING catches don't last long in the NFL.  

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Heck, I'll settle for an off season where he takes most of the first team snaps in practice! 

Rumor is that McD wants Nathan Peterman to come back and start.

[BB@Shooter]

3 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

Totally agree. I’m still not totally sure where I sit with Allen other than he’s fun to watch and I love his competitiveness and playmaking ability. 

 

But ultimately you’re right, it’s the best pocket passers that ultimately usually win it all. The really bad misses he has are disconcerting because those have nothing to do with weapons...no matter who it is, if they’re that open, you have to have a QB that can hit them. And then there are definitely plays that could go differently if we had a better o-line and better weapons. 

 

The other thing that’s going to happen is teams are going to start making more of an effort to contain him in the pocket, even at the expense of rushing him, because sometimes he really is just better off making something happen on a broken play. 

 

At least right now we can say it’ll be fun to watch...and I like the guy...but it’s really tough to say what he’s ultimately going to be. 

 

 

 

Probably better give him a little more time before you pigeon hole him into whatever category you are leaning now. He is a raw rookie who keeps improving quickly . Are you guys not watching what the other rookie QBs are doing? Why the rush to even start questioning him. That was his seventh game. And he is making throws out of the pocket. He could probably make more but his line breaks down too fast. Do you not see how many tackles he breaks and how many sacks he gets out of?  Are you guys so blind you can't see what he is bringing to the table? Allen started slow today. I have seen that tendency in him at Wyoming.  But when he is on, he is almost unstoppable.

 

Do you think Shady and the other veterans would share your thinking?  They are in the trenches with him and know what good QBs look like. I think if they posted on here they would laugh at you and roast you.  Before it is all said and done there will be GM's wondering why they didn't pull the trigger. And it will be because they worried too much about stats and couldn't see past it like you guys. There is nothing he is doing that can't be fixed. I think you guys are trying to overthink it so you can tell everyone you had it right all along. I catch posters on this board who have flipped over towards Allen and only a few weeks ago they said he would be a journeyman qb at best. Now they are singing his praises and thinking no one remembers what they said about him.

 

If Allen stays healthy he is a franchise qb. If you can't see that I guess you can sit back and try to pick him apart and act like some kind of QB whisperer. I don't see any great knowledge coming from you. Just someone riding the fence waiting to see which way the wind blows. I usually like your posts, but now I am starting to see through you. I guess not everyone can be on the bandwagon, or it would get boring.

16 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Heck, I'll settle for an off season where he takes most of the first team snaps in practice! 

 

Watching a lot of NFL & College football helps define what a "drop" is for me.  And the one thing I'm not seeing from Bills TE's/receivers this year are GREAT catches.  Think about it, the best catch of a Josh Allen pass was by Demarco in the Chargers game!  Heck yesterday in the college football championship games I saw guys making awesome catches all over the place.  In the NFL the QB's job is to get the ball close to where the receiver can make a play on it.  Receivers who DON'T MAKE AMAZING catches don't last long in the NFL.  

Good post.

[longtimebillsfan]

Allen played well enough to win the game. We need to surround him with receivers that play with the same heart as he does.   Benjamin and Clay have to go.

 

Allen started out slowly, but finished with respectable numbers.  18-34. 231 yards.  135 yards rushing.  He had 2 ints but the first one was on a haul Mary.

 

He is showing improvement.  That is what we need to see. 

 

Even though I worry about the hits he takes with his running, that is part of what makes him such a dynamic player.  Some mobile qbs had long careers and racked up significant rushing yardage.

 

I think we found our guy in Josh.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by longtimebillsfan

[Big Gun]

Inaccurate?

 

Take away that stupid coaching decision int of a hail mary at the end of the half and I counted 4 dropped passes by WR that hit both hands should have been catches and Allen is suddenly 22/32 for 300+ yards and at least 3 TDs and most likely a Bills W.

 

You inaccuracy barkers are out to lunch. The kids a rookie, is good and was real good today and will only get better. 

[BB@Shooter]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea I think most of the game his passing was a little off. Yes he had some drops - including a couple of big ones but whether it was timing or fundamentals there were plenty of inaccurate balls. 

 

I am not saying he was all bad today - he most certainly was not - but it was unconventional QB'ing.... and an odd one to try and analyse as a result. 

So offenses are changing left and right. They are now trying to fit their offense in around a qbs talent and running college type offenses. But you are saying they are all wrong to do that. That Houston, Baltimore, the Rams, and other teams that are going away from drop back passing are wrong? If they are so wrong why are so many teams leaning that way? It started with the Wildcat offense and evolved from there. So you are thinking this is just a fad? They sure are investing a lot of money into a fad. And that fad is sure turning into a lot of wins. So it is not just Buffalo going that route. Even though Buffalo is doing it mostly out of need because of poor line play. But times are a changing, so best learn how to analyze a different way I guess. 

 

A long time ago I heard Bud Wilkinson wanted to bring in a bunch of college QB's that ran the option. His thinking was teams wouldn't see it much so they would have a hard time preparing for it and stopping it. Much like Navy, AFA, Army, and other schools that have recruiting problems because of admission requirements . They have to change things up and run option type offenses because of inferior players. Teams don't see that type of offense but once a year usually. Anyway it gives them an edge so they can compete.

 

Wilkinson knew his QBs would take a beating, so he would have to carry 4 to 5 QBs. I don't remember why it was never done for sure, probably because it wasn't conventional. But isn't the end game about wins? The announcers talked about what Beane said to them. It was basically that their offense was looking like Wyomings did when Allen played there. Wyoming didn't have much in personell to help Allen out, so they let Josh take over and carry the team. Allen learned how to squeak out wins playing like this. I really am not so sure why you are so hung up on pocket passers and conventional things like that. Look at how many times Mahomes, Watson. Jackson and others throw the ball outside the locket. The pocket used to be the golden standard for a qb. Things are changing. Back in Wilkinsons day there is no way he gets to run the option. Now teams are incorporating the veer,  wishbone , and all sorts of things into their offense. These new guys are not stuck in a time machine.  Their coaches are adapting to the player and fitting cogs into the machine that work well with what the QB can do. And like Baltimore, they have two guys that can run what they want to do in the future with Jackson and RG3. You will start to see more of that because teams are figuring out that they can win with a high powered offense. I still think a good defense is needed to win it all, but that is another discussion. 

[BB@Shooter]

5 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

He is never going to be the 65% guy but you don't have to be in the league today.  He is a rare talent and his ability out of the pocket is about as good as it gets.  Defenses will have to account for that ability and it will open up the field for him when he is in the pocket.  He is going to make enough big plays with both his arms and feet to be a force in this league.  When you consider what he has around him especially a poor, poor offensive line, he is playing at a very high level already. 

 

People are evaluating him like he is playing in his 3rd year when he has started 7 games.  He is far right now from where his ceiling will end up.  An off-season where the Bills add capable offensive lineman,  2 or 3 more weapons at WR/TE, and where the coaches can really work with him and develop the offense around his skills and you will see, everyone will see. 

 

The microscope on him because of his pre-draft accuracy concerns are skewing peoples judgment on him.  He is never going to be the most accurate but there are a lot of accurate, great QB's that make some very inaccurate passes.  The difference is when Allen does it, people are falling over themselves to say "see, I told you he isn't accurate."  I think it is sad that some are letting their Bills pessimism because of what we have all endured in the past as fans is getting in the way of seeing what could be a very special player at the QB position for the Bills for years to come.  Allen is a baller and he is going to win a lot of games in the NFL. 

Great post KGunn. It amazes me how a lot of so called Bills fans want to see him fail. Have none of them watched the other rookies? Just like today on his own goal line. It was 3rd down and he nails a pass for a 1st down. And he has run for them in that situation. It seems when it is the bleakest is when he is at his best.

 

I wished he could call his own plays. At Wyoming he was handcuffed by his OC and the system. Anytime Wyoming got a lead they would sit on it and run the ball. Then when it was third down and long, they would turn to Josh to bail out the OC. The other team knew we were going to run on 1st and 2nd down. So they  would stack the line. Then it was 3rd and long and the other team was bringing the blitz against a mostly freshman and sophomore offensive line. And when Allen did pass the ball, his receivers would make the Bills receivers look all pro. And people questioned why his stats were so bad.  Plus he was always pushed out of the pocket by the pass rush, so what he sees now is no different but bigger and faster players after him. Hopefully one of these days he will have a supporting cast and then watch out. I have seen him pick apart teams like Central Michigan on the bowl game last year. And then his OC makes him start handing the ball off and run clock the whole 2nd half. Talk about boring. So Allen really didn't get to run snd gun with the ball that often. I would have loved to have seen him in an offense like Mahomes and Mayfield were in. He would have gone #1 for sure. But Cleveland sucks, so I am glad it is the Bills who got him.

[Da webster guy]

7 hours ago, PearlHowardman said:

Josh Allen has been playing competitive football for many years now.  HS, Jr. College, Wyoming, now with the Buffalo Bills.

 

His pass accuracy has never improved.

 

Sorry!

 

 

Go watch the ALL 22 from last week. + 70% completion if you don't count the penalties.   Solid throwing mechanics, great pocket presence.  Cmon man...  

[Gunsgoodtime]

15 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

 

Go watch the ALL 22 from last week. + 70% completion if you don't count the penalties.   Solid throwing mechanics, great pocket presence.  Cmon man...  

How dare you question the people who dont actually watch the game.  Who are you? A fantasy league commissioner?

[PrimeTime101]

31 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

 

Go watch the ALL 22 from last week. + 70% completion if you don't count the penalties.   Solid throwing mechanics, great pocket presence.  Cmon man...  

I have been trying to explain this to people who have problems with Allen's accuracy issues.. people don't get it or don't want to get it or troll. Post of the day Thank you

[billsintaiwan]

5 hours ago, Dan said:

He got the ball back with 2:33 left in the game.  No time outs, down by 4.  Needed to got 90 yards for the win.   He got us within 1 dropped pass of the win.  That... Is impressive.   Its been quite some time since we seen a QB carry the team in the final 2 minutes like that.   Color me impressed and looking forward to seeing him grow and lead our team for decades to come.

It was the whole game, eh? Running game hurt us, but when Allen was allowed to make a play, he did most of the time. He's the only reason I will still watch a 4-8 team at two a.m. in the morning (game time Taiwan)