Zerovoltz Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, billieve420 said: If his ceiling is Cam Newton you take it. Of course you do! Cam is a career 60 PCT passer thus far ....although having an above career year in that stat so far this season. .....if you get ALLEN to 60, 61, 62...You will have WON that draft pick. (also assuing the INTS are limited to something reasonable) He isn't there yet...and 60 would be a remarkable improvement over his college numbers....
John from Riverside Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: Both big build, good runners, charismatic, winners, scouting reports concered about accuracy at pro level. Completion PCT, TD's INTS, comparable...Allen better comp % by a little bit...but Tebow more TD and less INTS ....still pretty close. Both had very good defenses to help them. Allen certainly has the better raw arm. Im sorry zero....but this is like saying hamburger meat and ribeye steak are the same because they both come from a cow. Josh Allen is extremely raw...we dont know what his ceiling even is...and he is already better then Tim Tebow and I try very hard not to talk about this because I dont want it factored into the QB equation...but Josh Allen is not a "good runner" the guy is elite.....he is having running stats that Tyrod Taylor didnt even have....he is actually setting all time records in the NFL in that department.
SJDK Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Zerovotlz said: The QB's you quoted earlier especially Montana....had like 20 attempts his first year... ....anyhow...Steve Young was 65 % passer in college. He was a 65% passer in the pros. Aikman was a 63% passer in College and a 61% passer in the pros. Trubisky was a 67% completion thrower in college.....I don't understand your point...All these guys were accurate passers who were also accurate in the pros...They all progressed (except Trubs who only played one year) while in college. They were the passers everyone thought they were. Allen is the passer everyone thought he was. How about Brett Favre?
Augie Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: Of course you do! Cam is a career 60 PCT passer thus far ....although having an above career year in that stat so far this season. .....if you get ALLEN to 60, 61, 62...You will have WON that draft pick. (also assuing the INTS are limited to something reasonable) He isn't there yet...and 60 would be a remarkable improvement over his college numbers.... Is your first name Jeff? Are you magic? 1
GoBills808 Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 10 hours ago, SJDK said: How about Brett Favre? How about Russell Wilson, or Matt Stafford? How about Drew Brees? Because according to Chiefs fan it's impossible to improve your accuracy from college to pros... 1 1
Gunsgoodtime Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 Tyrod had low stats, but won most the time due to his conservative nature and turnover ratio, he also hit some big passes from time to time. Josh is showing great signs and although we lost, I cant help but to think what he could do with a NFL caliber Oline and receivers, he dont have that
Augie Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Gunsgoodtime said: Tyrod had low stats, but won most the time due to his conservative nature and turnover ratio, he also hit some big passes from time to time. Josh is showing great signs and although we lost, I cant help but to think what he could do with a NFL caliber Oline and receivers, he dont have that And some experience. Surround him with talent (like Mahomes) and let him learn. I’m not swearing by the guy, but I’m encouraged.
Gunsgoodtime Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 Looking back at comments we have a large number of people frustrated....certainly understandable. But you have to feel optimistic with Allen, and maybe a good line and WR to support him. This is a dumpster team atm literally, wr off the streets. OL that would be backups on most teams. Get the guy a real OL and WR and let's judge then
Zerovoltz Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, Augie said: Is your first name Jeff? Are you magic? No. My name is gary. I am not magic.
BB@Shooter Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 7 hours ago, Bangarang said: Bills fans: Yards don’t matter, wins do Also Bills fans: Yeah we lost but look at the amount of yards he had! And when we win Bills fans say that Allen didn't have many yards. And that he threw the ball too hard. And that he didn't look downfield. And........
Zerovoltz Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 Let me try this AGAIN. I like ALLEN. I am amused, intrigued...what have you....that so many of you are quick to look at Allens accuracy is some minor detail that just needs cleaned up. My point is that accuracy is a MAJOR component of a QB's game...perhaps the most important part. I hope he does. I harbor no ill will toward teh Bills, the players, the fans etc. I think I were a Bills fan, I would be very cautiously optimistic about Allen....because of the accuracy and not just casually throwing out statements like "with a little more time, his accuracy will be better" If he just had a few better pieces, his accuaracy will be better....etc.
HappyDays Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 I don't understand the obsession with completion percentage. I'm as big a stats guy as anyone but that is the worst stat to judge a QB by. This is the top 10 in completion percentage this season: Brees Ryan Cousins Mariota Wentz Newton Rivers Manning Luck Carr Tom Brady is ranked one slot above Brock Osweiler in that stat. I still go passer rating, YPA, and ANY/A. It's dumb to rank rookies on stats anyways, I just want to see progress and Allen is showing that.
BB@Shooter Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 8 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said: Tyrod had low stats, but won most the time due to his conservative nature and turnover ratio, he also hit some big passes from time to time. Josh is showing great signs and although we lost, I cant help but to think what he could do with a NFL caliber Oline and receivers, he dont have that If Tyrod won most of the time then why weren't they in the playoffs every year? And why did he get benched in the year they did luck into the playoffs. Tyrod was not a good QB. He couldn't even stay starting in Cleveland. Who has a lot more talent than the Bills.
Zerovoltz Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 IF Tebow were accurate he would be a star.....that's the thing that bothers me...No one could make Tebow more accurate...he didn't have it in him...and he had Baby Hoodie coaching him. Improving accuracy is not a given...it's much more likely that it doesn't improve.....If you could take a guy whose problem is accuracy and fix it....then guys like Lamar Jackson and Mike Vick would have been all time greats.
John from Riverside Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: Let me try this AGAIN. I like ALLEN. I am amused, intrigued...what have you....that so many of you are quick to look at Allens accuracy is some minor detail that just needs cleaned up. My point is that accuracy is a MAJOR component of a QB's game...perhaps the most important part. I hope he does. I harbor no ill will toward teh Bills, the players, the fans etc. I think I were a Bills fan, I would be very cautiously optimistic about Allen....because of the accuracy and not just casually throwing out statements like "with a little more time, his accuracy will be better" If he just had a few better pieces, his accuaracy will be better....etc. Josh Allen should have 4 TD passes today......are you saying that dropped passes that hit a QB right in the hands is not something we should expect to improve with better talent at wideout? He was supposed to be the most raw rookie of this draft class.....by a lot actually......so bills fans are not supposed to expect him to improve as he matures as a passer? His offensive line is crap.....we literally cannot run the ball.......we put Josh Allen is ridiculous situations with 3rd and longs do to not being able to run the ball and penalties....are we not supposed to think he cant improve if he has more plays to his disposal. We hardly ever throw screens....which is a pass to drive up percentage for QBs....you dont think that doesnt come into play? Come on man
billieve420 Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 Josh is still very raw and he is more athlete than QB at this point. This was to be expected. I have been pleased with his progress so far. Josh was literally the entire offense today. Fix the o-line and get some athletic playmakers who can get open in space and I think he makes a jump next year.
Gunsgoodtime Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said: If Tyrod won most of the time then why weren't they in the playoffs every year? And why did he get benched in the year they did luck into the playoffs. Tyrod was not a good QB. He couldn't even stay starting in Cleveland. Who has a lot more talent than the Bills. Tyrod was a part of the Bill's eliminating a 18 year playoff drought, no matter how much YOU may despise him, he got the job done that no one else before him could, all the way back to the kelly days almost. You are obviously a die hard Bill's fan, that hates everyone on the team before. I get it, but I'm not joining the hate train Edited December 3, 2018 by Gunsgoodtime
GoBills808 Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 To someone who thinks completion % = accuracy, I guess it would make sense to compare Tebow and Allen.
Alphadawg7 Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 23 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: Both big build, good runners, charismatic, winners, scouting reports concered about accuracy at pro level. Completion PCT, TD's INTS, comparable...Allen better comp % by a little bit...but Tebow more TD and less INTS ....still pretty close. Both had very good defenses to help them. Allen certainly has the better raw arm. Hahahahahaha, you got to be kidding me!? You’re comparing Tebow to Allen?!?! Geezus, stop posting if you really believe this because you have no business discussing QBs if you think they are remotely comparable. Tebow could NOT throw, so he didn’t really play QB, he played as a runner that occasionally will try a throw to keep the defense guessing. Allen is light years better as a QB already right now. These stupid lazy assessments here are comical. Because Allen can ALSO can run, you make a lazy comparison to a QB who could ONLY run?!?! Hahaha my gawd, this is one of the worst “hot takes” of the year.
GoBills808 Posted December 3, 2018 Posted December 3, 2018 Just now, Alphadawg7 said: Hahahahahaha, you got to be kidding me!? You’re comparing Tebow to Allen?!?! Geezus, stop posting if you really believe this because you have no business discussing QBs if you think they are remotely comparable. Tebow could NOT throw, so he didn’t really play QB, he played as a runner that occasionally will try a throw to keep the defense guessing. Allen is light years better as a QB already right now. These stupid lazy assessments here are comical. Because Allen can ALSO can run, you make a lazy comparison to a QB who could ONLY run?!?! Hahaha my gawd, this is one of the worst “hot takes” of the year. He’s a troll imo. A not so subtle one.
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