Charles Clay- the most useless player ever

[row_33]

Just now, hemma said:

I think the game has beaten him down physically so that he couldn't perform and after today, he may start thinking like Vontae.

He might be done.

 

Next time.... don’t drop it....

 

please

[Kelly the Dog]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

Mental or physical error or both?

 

 

Depends. African or European?

[Warcodered]

Pretty poor timing for his drop, earlier in the game and sure he'd still be getting some crap but nothing compared to the avalanche of ***** he's got coming his way.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Warcodered

[dave mcbride]

4 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

It's wrong IMO to say a pass that was 55 yards in the air, running the opposite way, all the way across the field, AFTER running 30-40 yards to avoid the rush that hits the receiver in two hands and would have been a pretty easy catch if that receiver didnt trip himself, is 'highly inaccurate." 

We disagree strongly about this. But you blamed Watkins on a bad pass by Taylor, so we’re on different sides with regard to this basic issue. You blame receivers on bad but borderline catchable passes (which go incomplete ALL of the time if you actually watch other NFL teams), and I think it’s the QB’s job to be at least moderately accurate. I liked Allen’s game today, but his final throw today was very off target. He was a top ten pick and we should expect him to deliver on that pass. He didn’t today, but I expect him to do so in the future. He had a lot of good throws today, but consistency on the accuracy front is a real issue at present.

Edited December 3, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Kelly the Dog]

2 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

We disagree strongly about this. But you blamed Watkins on a bad pass by Taylor, so we’re on different sides with regard to this basic issue.

You seem to be the only person out of about 50 who have commented on it to take your position so I feel comfortable in mine.

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

You seem to be the only person out of about 50 who have commented on it to take your position so I feel comfortable in mine.

I honestly don’t care a whit if my opinion isn’t popular on this message board, and popular support for your position among fans here who have their pitchforks out ain’t what I call “empirical evidence.” See my expanded reply above. I also wonder if people here actually watch other teams with any degree of closeness.

Edited December 3, 2018 by dave mcbride

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

I honestly don’t care a whit if my opinion isn’t popular on this message board, and popular support for your position among fans here who have their pithforks out ain’t what I call “empirical evidence.” See my expanded reply above.

I did. I think you're ignoring the difficulty of the pass. He threw it rolling left after scrambling wildly across his body 55 yards in the air. Clay flat out said he stumbled, which is his fault. There was no one near him. He didn't have to change direction he was already coming back for the ball before he stumbled. He also had it right in his hands, two hands, and he dropped it. A lunging catch like that for an NFL player with no one near him is not an extremely hard catch. He said he flat dropped it.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

Clay, KB and Croom should all be released next year. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

14 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I did. I think you're ignoring the difficulty of the pass. He threw it rolling left after scrambling wildly across his body 55 yards in the air. Clay flat out said he stumbled, which is his fault. There was no one near him. He didn't have to change direction he was already coming back for the ball before he stumbled. He also had it right in his hands, two hands, and he dropped it. A lunging catch like that for an NFL player with no one near him is not an extremely hard catch. He said he flat dropped it.

Was an unfortunate situation thatl the Bill's put themselves into, the team wont good enough to recover, the drop by clay only being one play.  Not excusing clay or Allen.....but could have been a totally different outcome if someone had held on to the pass

[billsredneck1]

i can't believe it! he had both hands on the ball and dropped it. what a loser!   signed...kb

[Troll Toll]

I kind of feel for Clay on that pass. I’m not blaming Allen at all, but from Clay’s end I know what it’s like to stand on the other end of a strong armed launch and having a tough time judging where it will come down. 

 

If you’ve ever been there, sometimes the passes from those really strong armed QBs seem like they are going to drop short like Allen’s did, but instead they end up just going and going and wind up over your head. I don’t know if it is just that the wind gets behind it from time to time, but knowing about that possibility can make you hesitant to move up for the ball right away. That won’t happen with 90% of QBs in the NFL because their arm isn’t strong enough, but Allen’s cannon is one you have to be mindful of.

[Spiderweb]

16 hours ago, bigduke6 said:

there was a time when Clay was the extent of our passing game.    sure he was wide open on that last throw, but that ball wasnt close to an easy catch,  and remember,  hes a tight end.

 

that bein said,  i think his time as a Bill is over.   u dont pay a guy his salary for the output hes had the last coupla years.  age and injuries are a bad mix.

Poor excuses. Clay should have moved quicker to the ball, and even as Lifton said he should have come out to the 5 yard line if necessary to catch that ball. A few years ago, Clay was fair, last year he was poor, this year he just sucks. He has always had a penchant for dropping possible TDs and for coming up little in big moments. I have seen all I ever want to see from him.

 

Also, even more so, KB should never take another snap, period. He is a total waste, cut him now. He is a poster child for addition by subtraction.

[dave mcbride]

8 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I did. I think you're ignoring the difficulty of the pass. He threw it rolling left after scrambling wildly across his body 55 yards in the air. Clay flat out said he stumbled, which is his fault. There was no one near him. He didn't have to change direction he was already coming back for the ball before he stumbled. He also had it right in his hands, two hands, and he dropped it. A lunging catch like that for an NFL player with no one near him is not an extremely hard catch. He said he flat dropped it.

Again, he is not going to throw the qb under the bus. Again, it was an impressive play in many ways and Allen played a pretty good game. But if you're going to focus on drops, focus on the play before (and yes, I know the pitchforks aren't out for zay because he has been playing well). Jones was interfered with, and yes, PI should have been called, but good receivers hold onto perfect throws like that all the time even while being mildly interfered with (that is, it was PI but hardly a mugging). It was a perfect back-shoulder throw right in his breadbasket, and he basically failed to keep it in. Moderately tough play, yes, because of the interference (and hence I'll give him a pass on it), but a less tough catch than the wounded duck Clay had to field. But because the pitchforks are out for Clay, there is no mention of the previous--and equally important--play.

[Bookie Man]

Maybe Clay could be a decent #2 TE. Hard to tell, I feel like I haven't seem him play in a year. Not sure where his body's at. I would love to see this team score a legit TE in the draft.

[Spiderweb]

16 hours ago, popcornpam said:

 When your quarterback scrambles you’re supposed to move up towards the Quarterback It was only 11 yards it wasn’t the end of the game. Poor coaching. 

?

16 hours ago, Pete said:

That play was on Josh.  Put your pitchforks down.  He also missed a wide open Foster.  Growing pains. We finally have our QB!

Allen performed a near miracle just to get the ball away. Clay simply has to make a play on the ball. Slow to eeacte and even worse hands. That's on Clay for not making a play.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

3 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

I kind of feel for Clay on that pass. I’m not blaming Allen at all, but from Clay’s end I know what it’s like to stand on the other end of a strong armed launch and having a tough time judging where it will come down. 

 

If you’ve ever been there, sometimes the passes from those really strong armed QBs seem like they are going to drop short like Allen’s did, but instead they end up just going and going and wind up over your head. I don’t know if it is just that the wind gets behind it from time to time, but knowing about that possibility can make you hesitant to move up for the ball right away. That won’t happen with 90% of QBs in the NFL because their arm isn’t strong enough, but Allen’s cannon is one you have to be mindful of.

Unfortunately Clay is a professional and a veteran and he should have realized that a cross body, on the run throw is not going to have that much zip on it, even from Josh Allen. It was a bad play by him, but it's not grounds for removal (for me) even given his salary.

 

On another note, those that want to blow $90 million in FA, this is what happens seemingly more often than not. The player doesn't live up to the contract.

Edited December 3, 2018 by 4BillsintheBurgh

[All_Pro_Bills]

I've watched the final 4 plays several times. 

 

1st and 10 from the 29, Allen screen to McCoy for 4 yards, 2nd and 6 from the 25, false start, 2nd and 11 from the 30, Allen under pressure throws the ball away to the left sideline.  Blow to the helmet of the QB by #50 of Dolphins not called.  Should have been 1st and 10 from the 15 on a 15 yard PF.

 

3rd and 11. Allen pass to Z. Jones to left sideline to the Miami 6 ruled complete.  Reviewed and over turned  But should have been defensive PI at the 6 for first and goal.  You can argue the non-call but the defender has his arms wrapped around the receivers chest prior to the ball arriving.  That looks like PI not playing the ball. 

 

4th and 11 Allen scrambles for about 12 seconds and throws the ball across his body to the right while running left/parallel.  When he releases the ball Clay is all alone 6 yards deep in the end zone as Miami's defenders had all drifted to the left side.  In fact the Bills had 3 receivers in the end zone at that point when they needed 11 yards, not 30.  None of them came back to the QB on the scramble.  McCoy did follow and run his pattern to the left side but was covered.  When the ball was released Clay ran out of the end zone but stumbled and missed the catch.

 

Should Clay have caught that?  I think so but the ref's missed two calls, it was a tough pass across the field and the receivers should have worked their way back out of the end zone when the play broke down and Allen started to scramble.  My point is this, I do blame Clay for dropping that pass, which a good receiver should come up with, but there were a host of other circumstances that could have changed the outcome.  Another, maybe discussed elsewhere how the Bills defense folded right after the Bills took the 17-14 lead.      

[2003Contenders]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I've watched the final 4 plays several times. 

 

1st and 10 from the 29, Allen screen to McCoy for 4 yards, 2nd and 6 from the 25, false start, 2nd and 11 from the 30, Allen under pressure throws the ball away to the left sideline.  Blow to the helmet of the QB by #50 of Dolphins not called.  Should have been 1st and 10 from the 15 on a 15 yard PF. 

 

3rd and 11. Allen pass to Z. Jones to left sideline to the Miami 6 ruled complete.  Reviewed and over turned  But should have been defensive PI at the 6 for first and goal.  You can argue the non-call but the defender has his arms wrapped around the receivers chest prior to the ball arriving.  That looks like PI not playing the ball. 

 

4th and 11 Allen scrambles for about 12 seconds and throws the ball across his body to the right while running left/parallel.  When he releases the ball Clay is all alone 6 yards deep in the end zone as Miami's defenders had all drifted to the left side.  In fact the Bills had 3 receivers in the end zone at that point when they needed 11 yards, not 30.  None of them came back to the QB on the scramble.  McCoy did follow and run his pattern to the left side but was covered.  When the ball was released Clay ran out of the end zone but stumbled and missed the catch. 

 

Should Clay have caught that?  I think so but the ref's missed two calls, it was a tough pass across the field and the receivers should have worked their way back out of the end zone when the play broke down and Allen started to scramble.  My point is this, I do blame Clay for dropping that pass, which a good receiver should come up with, but there were a host of other circumstances that could have changed the outcome.  Another, maybe discussed elsewhere how the Bills defense folded right after the Bills took the 17-14 lead.      

 

Excellent and fair review.

 

I will say in Clay's defense that he was not entirely useless yesterday either. He actually did a solid job blocking most of the game -- and made a couple of key outside blocks on 1st down runs.

[Kelly the Dog]

3 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Again, he is not going to throw the qb under the bus. Again, it was an impressive play in many ways and Allen played a pretty good game. But if you're going to focus on drops, focus on the play before (and yes, I know the pitchforks aren't out for zay because he has been playing well). Jones was interfered with, and yes, PI should have been called, but good receivers hold onto perfect throws like that all the time even while being mildly interfered with (that is, it was PI but hardly a mugging). It was a perfect back-shoulder throw right in his breadbasket, and he basically failed to keep it in. Moderately tough play, yes, because of the interference (and hence I'll give him a pass on it), but a less tough catch than the wounded duck Clay had to field. But because the pitchforks are out for Clay, there is no mention of the previous--and equally important--play.

I agree about Zay. When I mentioned it was a tough catch I was only referring to how he ended up dropping it. He could have made an easier play on the ball. He definitely was interfered with. The officials made the right call on the drop but wrong call on the PI which of course they cannot consider. But all around, the Clay catch was a lot easier than Zay’s. 

[Saxum]

20 hours ago, NewEra said:

Show your love for Charles ******* Clay.  You sir, are a bum.  Thanks for one game vs the dolphins years ago.  

 

Quite a bit of exaggeration.  How about Bush who in all his runs for Bills got negative yardage?  of Billy Joe who as backup did not even look at plays inserted for the game?

 

As my debate teacher taught me: exaggeration is the first tool of those unprepared for battle of wits.