Anonymous Poll: Would you support a Bills waiver claim for Kareem Hunt?

[BillsFan2313]

On 12/1/2018 at 6:31 AM, KGun12TD said:

Seriously? You made this post? Do you have a mother, wife and/or daughter? Are you sick? 

 

Anyone who Did what he did does not deserve to be rewarded with millions of dollars! At some point common decency Is needed.

 

he needs to go to some serious therapy...how about that instead of football?

 

This is pretty funny, given your screen name. Jill was a regular back door visitor at a hospital due to Kguns beatdowns.

[billsfan1959]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Well considering all the police interviews and witness testimony tell a different story, seems pretty premature to just assume what you just said to be fact.

 

You are taking about a girl who was there after lying about her age, refusing to leave multiple times when asked politely to leave, and who instigated most the physical contact on not only Hunt, but his girlfriend and one of his buddies.  Why is her “version” suddenly gospel?

 

I am all about protecting women and very against men hitting females.  BUT...this free pass that happens all the time where no one holds women accountable for any of their actions is also out of hand too.  Hunt certainly went too far, but she doesn’t just get a free pass here and we don’t get to just assume this drink girl who wouldn’t leave, lied already that night is somehow telling the full truth. 

 

And Hunt came out very calm just asking her to leave, she says something and makes contact that sets him off.  Witnesses said she called him the N word.  I mean there were a lot of people there and all their stories matched in all the police interview videos too.

 

Not justifying his actions, he deserves to face consequences.   But her version of the story is pretty hard to fully believe.  Hunts girlfriend was there, I have a hard time believing he “attacked her” over not banging his buddy and Hunts GF was just ok with this. 

 

TMZ and people not watching all the police videos and not using a little common sense about her story have all decided to convict him and paint him a monster prematurely before the whole story is really known.

I cannot comment on what happened to precipitate what occurred in that hallway, as all of the information (from interviews and other investigative activity) gathered by the police has not been released, and it is silly to try to reach any definitive conclusions before knowing all the facts. Like everyone else, I did see the video. Technically speaking, both Hunt and the young woman could have been charged with simple assault based solely on the video evidence. People can debate whether any charges should have been brought against either one; however, the prosecuting attorney(s) clearly felt it wasn't worth pursuing. They make those discretionary decisions all the time.

 

The young woman was clearly acting aggressively in the video, so, to a certain degree, she clearly has some culpability in what transpired. I don't give her a free pass. Having said that, I have a bigger issue with Hunt. He could have simply walked into his room and called hotel security or the police to have the young woman removed from the hotel. He didn't do that. Instead he chose to react aggressively and, IMO, he crossed the line. What bothered me the most is that Hunt had to be physically restrained, which means he was no longer able to restrain himself. He reached a point where his rage was greater than his self-control, and I am not so sure that things would not have ended up a lot worse had he not been restrained. That young woman does share some culpability in the escalation of events; however, there is nothing that young woman did that justified Hunt putting his hands or feet on her. He was never in any physical danger from this woman. While there were no serious injuries inflicted, it doesn't minimize the fact that he crossed the line when he touched her in any way. The fact that he reached a level of rage that caused others to have to physically hold him back from going after a woman is actually more disturbing to me.

 

So, I have no problem with whatever discipline the NFL or his team would want to hand out. I agree with you that it is hypocritical of the Chiefs to release him while keeping someone like Hill on the team. I do believe there should be consistency in these things and that discipline should be based on the facts - not on PR issues.

Edited December 2, 2018 by billsfan1959

[CEN-CAL17]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm wondering about the "50% effort kick to her butt".   Just how do you quantitate that effort?  And when, according to your quantitation, does the action start to matter?  55% effort?  75%?  90%?  Or does it only count if we all agree he is going full-out?

 

Does the force exerted play into it at all? Let's say I'm kind of a Flabby McFlabCakes type and I kick someone with 100% effort but less force than Hunt's 50% effort.  Can I now go around kicking people who are crouching on the ground posing no current threat to me full force, and get a free pass from ya? 

 

Is the location of the kick relevant?  If it were a kick to her butt, is that less worthy of notice than a kick to her thigh or kidneys (which is where I see the kick landing)?  What if he were aiming to give her a kidney rupture or compartment syndrome in the thigh, but only managed the butt 'cuz drunk?  Does that mean we should care more, or less? 

 

Lastly, I'm a bit curious about the "did he hit a woman?" question followed by the "50% effort kick to her butt" coda.  We all agree the woman was struck by an extremity connected to Kareem Hunt, right?  Does it somehow make it more chill if the extremity is covered by shoe leather vs terminating in curled fingers?

 

I'll tell you what I think is silly - it's folks trying to make excuses for something that's plainly wrong and has no extenuation - a guy delivering a blow to a girl who is crouching and looks like she's trying to collect her things, posing no current threat that arguably calls for self defense from him.  It would be wrong if it were the girl kicking him, it's wrong with it him kicking her.  Whether he expended 50, 65, 80 or 100% effort does not matter, and neither does the location where his kick landed.  It's wrong, and it's not less wrong because the extremity used to deliver the blow was at the end of his leg rather than his arm.

 

 

 

 

Your such a fruit cake! 

 

Holding so so much weight against me saying 50% effort kick is childish. You know what I meant. Even women who have weighed in on this and didn’t feel it’s everything the media has played it out to be.

 

All im saying is Hunt tried taking the high road of asking them nicely to leave. Those girls wanted a confrontation and got it. Hunt was stupid enough to fall into their trap and did things I wouldn’t agree with.

 

Is hunt a woman beater? Did he hit her? Did that kick truly mean to cause her harm? Does he have a drinking problem? What is his character really like? Do we destroy every athlete that gets in a fued? Why were there no charges filed? What was the item his friend snatched back? Were they trying to steal something?

 

Your acting as if your morals are greater than thou. Everyone makes mistakes. You want to end this mans career without even hearing any reasoning behind the whole ordeal.

 

Does he deserved to be suspended, sure. How long. Let the league decide. Is this domestic abuse, no. I see it as plain assault. You want to label him some woman beater. That’s fine, we will agree to disagree. But don’t try to clown me using a play of words cause I put a percentage of the kick and considered it a warning kick vs some woman beating, no man should ever do that, act of brutality etc kick.

 

Just think of all the chargers some of these players have gathered over the years and are still playing, stayed clean and lived the straight and narrow since..... and think about where this lined up with those.

 

I give him another shot! People make mistakes.

 

[KGun12TD]

19 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said:

 

This is pretty funny, given your screen name. Jill was a regular back door visitor at a hospital due to Kguns beatdowns.

 

 

So, you’re saying I gave Jim a pass on that stuff? Let me assure you, I didn’t!

Edited December 2, 2018 by KGun12TD

[Needle]

I would do my homework on Hunt. I think he looked a little too comfortable resorting to violence. With that being said, people can change. If I was convinced that Hunt was going to work on the issues, yes I'd sign him. 

 

[Buffalo ill]

On 11/30/2018 at 11:07 PM, Warcodered said:

Only way I'm even remotely comfortable with it is if he agrees to go through some sort of program to deal with his issues.

Would the counseling consist of "Don't stick your D in crazy"?

[Needle]

1 minute ago, Buffalo ill said:

Would the counseling consist of "Don't stick your D in crazy"?

Crazy is too hot. Counseling should start with escape plan training.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

11 minutes ago, Needle said:

I would do my homework on Hunt. I think he looked a little too comfortable resorting to violence. With that being said, people can change. If I was convinced that Hunt was going to work on the issues, yes I'd sign him. 

 

 

...I wouldn't bother....the fact that he originally lied to the Chiefs when questioned is enough for me....tell the truth and this doesn't unravel to where it is today IMO....the truth maybe gets an in-house one or two game "conduct detrimental" suspension...now he's cut and facing six.....not too smart...

[Needle]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...I wouldn't bother....the fact that he originally lied to the Chiefs when questioned is enough for me....tell the truth and this doesn't unravel to where it is today IMO....the truth maybe gets an in-house one or two game "conduct detrimental" suspension...now he's cut and facing six.....not too smart...

Honestly I find it hard to believe that the NFL, Chiefs, and police were so in the dark on what happened. If they were in the dark it was because they wanted to be. I doubt some kid totally fooled everyone.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, Needle said:

Honestly I find it hard to believe that the NFL, Chiefs, and police were so in the dark on what happened. If they were in the dark it was because they wanted to be. I doubt some kid totally fooled everyone.

 

 

....could be right.....no charges filed so the police are out.....Chiefs questioned him but he lied.....have no idea what the NFL knew when or if at all......

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

I cannot comment on what happened to precipitate what occurred in that hallway, as all of the information (from interviews and other investigative activity) gathered by the police has not been released, and it is silly to try to reach any definitive conclusions before knowing all the facts. Like everyone else, I did see the video. Technically speaking, both Hunt and the young woman could have been charged with simple assault based solely on the video evidence. People can debate whether any charges should have been brought against either one; however, the prosecuting attorney(s) clearly felt it wasn't worth pursuing. They make those discretionary decisions all the time.

 

The young woman was clearly acting aggressively in the video, so, to a certain degree, she clearly has some culpability in what transpired. I don't give her a free pass. Having said that, I have a bigger issue with Hunt. He could have simply walked into his room and called hotel security or the police to have the young woman removed from the hotel. He didn't do that. Instead he chose to react aggressively and, IMO, he crossed the line. What bothered me the most is that Hunt had to be physically restrained, which means he was no longer able to restrain himself. He reached a point where his rage was greater than his self-control, and I am not so sure that things would not have ended up a lot worse had he not been restrained. That young woman does share some culpability in the escalation of events; however, there is nothing that young woman did that justified Hunt putting his hands or feet on her. He was never in any physical danger from this woman. While there were no serious injuries inflicted, it doesn't minimize the fact that he crossed the line when he touched her in any way. The fact that he reached a level of rage that caused others to have to physically hold him back from going after a woman is actually more disturbing to me.

 

So, I have no problem with whatever discipline the NFL or his team would want to hand out. I agree with you that it is hypocritical of the Chiefs to release him while keeping someone like Hill on the team. I do believe there should be consistency in these things and that discipline should be based on the facts - not on PR issues.

 

There are also several videos of the police interviewing everyone involved and hearing both sides, so there is a lot more info out there at the moment other than the TMZ main video. 

 

I don’t disagree with anything you said.  I will add one thing though, things always look worse when people are being restrained.  People tend to over sell their rage while being restrained.  They know they are being held back so psychologically they really amp up the show for higher levels of intimidation and bolstering their ego.  Not excusing his behavior by any means, but I’ve seen people  mention many times the comment about fearing what he would have done if not restrained.  I find it hard to believe had he not been restrained he would have just mauled her like an animal.  

 

The “restrained” reaction by guys is most often so much more dramatic over animated than the non-restrained guy, especially when drinking is involved.  And considering he had multiple chances where he could have seriously hurt her in this incident and didn’t, makes me feel confident that had he not been restrained it likely isn’t much different or more severe.

10 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...I wouldn't bother....the fact that he originally lied to the Chiefs when questioned is enough for me....tell the truth and this doesn't unravel to where it is today IMO....the truth maybe gets an in-house one or two game "conduct detrimental" suspension...now he's cut and facing six.....not too smart...

 

Has the “lying” been confirmed?  Just curious, if it’s internet talk or Chiefs made a statement confirming this.

 

In terms of the lying, I think that’s the less concerning issue personally.  I mean I don’t know if any player in the NFL wouldn’t have also tried to down play this given the consequences were going to be just as severe either way with the NFL.  It’s human nature, and these are still young players who are still maturing.  So I think the “lying” isn’t really a red flag, it’s pretty much what just about anyone would do in this situation who has so much to lose over this.

 

And lets not forget...no charges were filed and this was almost a year ago.  He probably was naive and felt since no charges were filed and story never really got out that this would kind of go away, so further reason why he wouldn’t divulge more info or more truthful info to the Chiefs.

[Needle]

7 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

....could be right.....no charges filed so the police are out.....Chiefs questioned him but he lied.....have no idea what the NFL knew when or if at all......

The fact that no one supposedly saw the video is strange to me. The police claim they didn't review it because it was a misdemeanor. Really? They can't be bothered to fact check and watch the video for 5 minutes?  The NFL conducted an investigation that didn't include an interview with Hunt or the woman. Sounds like they were really interested in what happened. The Chiefs reportedly had a conversation with Hunt about whether charges were filed and then it was a dead issue. 

 

No one cared until the video surfaced and then the spinning begins. 

[billsfan1959]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

There are also several videos of the police interviewing everyone involved and hearing both sides, so there is a lot more info out there at the moment other than the TMZ main video. 

 

I don’t disagree with anything you said.  I will add one thing though, things always look worse when people are being restrained.  People tend to over sell their rage while being restrained.  They know they are being held back so psychologically they really amp up the show for higher levels of intimidation and bolstering their ego.  Not excusing his behavior by any means, but I’ve seen people  mention many times the comment about fearing what he would have done if not restrained.  I find it hard to believe had he not been restrained he would have just mauled her like an animal.  

 

The “restrained” reaction by guys is most often so much more dramatic over animated than the non-restrained guy, especially when drinking is involved.  And considering he had multiple chances where he could have seriously hurt her in this incident and didn’t, makes me feel confident that had he not been restrained it likely isn’t much different or more severe.

Yeah, we will never know what he would have done had he not been restrained and I certainly do not want to indict him on speculation. Still bothers me that he had to be restrained at all and that he touched her in any way - even given her aggressive behavior. However, given what I do know of the incident, I agree with you that his release was as much about PR issues as it was about what he actually did. I think he did enough to warrant a suspension and I wouldn't disagree with their decision if it truly was based solely on his behavior and if that same standard applied to all of their players. Always good takes, Alphadawg7. 

[Rc2catch]

This is all a moot point, especially now there’s supposedly a second incident coming to light that’s going to have his suspension possibly longer than 6 games. He’s basically losing 2 years of his already short career span over this suspension. And they are prime years. The bills don’t need that kind of press distraction. We already have posts about luring free agents here, signing this guy with all the bad press sure ain’t helping with the free agent ideas. Very few teams can afford this type of risk. The Pats of course could absorb this kind of headache. But I would be completely shocked if any newer coaching regimes would attach this headache to their name. McDermott is 2 years almost into being a head coach. Why link your name to a guy who probably isn’t even as good as an aging McCoy? Why risk the headache 

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Yeah, we will never know what he would have done had he not been restrained and I certainly do not want to indict him on speculation. Still bothers me that he had to be restrained at all and that he touched her in any way - even given her aggressive behavior. However, given what I do know of the incident, I agree with you that his release was as much about PR issues as it was about what he actually did. I think he did enough to warrant a suspension and I wouldn't disagree with their decision if it truly was based solely on his behavior and if that same standard applied to all of their players. Always good takes, Alphadawg7. 

 

Look at the end of the video.  He had free access to her.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

29 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

There are also several videos of the police interviewing everyone involved and hearing both sides, so there is a lot more info out there at the moment other than the TMZ main video. 

 

I don’t disagree with anything you said.  I will add one thing though, things always look worse when people are being restrained.  People tend to over sell their rage while being restrained.  They know they are being held back so psychologically they really amp up the show for higher levels of intimidation and bolstering their ego.  Not excusing his behavior by any means, but I’ve seen people  mention many times the comment about fearing what he would have done if not restrained.  I find it hard to believe had he not been restrained he would have just mauled her like an animal.  

 

The “restrained” reaction by guys is most often so much more dramatic over animated than the non-restrained guy, especially when drinking is involved.  And considering he had multiple chances where he could have seriously hurt her in this incident and didn’t, makes me feel confident that had he not been restrained it likely isn’t much different or more severe.

 

Has the “lying” been confirmed?  Just curious, if it’s internet talk or Chiefs made a statement confirming this.

 

In terms of the lying, I think that’s the less concerning issue personally.  I mean I don’t know if any player in the NFL wouldn’t have also tried to down play this given the consequences were going to be just as severe either way with the NFL.  It’s human nature, and these are still young players who are still maturing.  So I think the “lying” isn’t really a red flag, it’s pretty much what just about anyone would do in this situation who has so much to lose over this.

 

And lets not forget...no charges were filed and this was almost a year ago.  He probably was naive and felt since no charges were filed and story never really got out that this would kind of go away, so further reason why he wouldn’t divulge more info or more truthful info to the Chiefs.

 

6:27 PM PT -- Hunt just made a statement to ESPN about our video, saying, "I want to apologize for my actions. I deeply regret what I did. I hope to move on from this."

 

5:50 PM PT -- The Chiefs have cut Kareem Hunt, and say he lied to the team when they spoke directly to him about the incident. 

 

The team says when the NFL and Cleveland PD launched their investigations the team called in Hunt and "several members of our management team spoke directly to him. Kareem was not truthful in those discussions. The video released today confirms that fact."

Edited December 2, 2018 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

This guy seems pretty sharp in this interview....He probably should have read from a prepared statement. Preferably prepared by someone other then himself. By the time he’s ready to play again, nobody is going to even bother. Hunt should go start sucking up to the AAF and get into that league.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

9 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

This guy seems pretty sharp in this interview....He probably should have read from a prepared statement. Preferably prepared by someone other then himself. By the time he’s ready to play again, nobody is going to even bother. Hunt should go start sucking up to the AAF and get into that league.

 

...but in this day and age, you have to know SOMEONE has a video and when the scurrilous TMZ shows up with a checkbook or is contacted, "SOLD" regardless of the ramifications....so nine months hence the guy gets hung out to dry......"pretty sharp"?......truth to Chiefs in February and it is potentially a non-issue today....oh well.........

[billsfan1959]

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Look at the end of the video.  He had free access to her.

She was already down and dazed at that point, so, I think it is far from definitive that he might, or might not, have done something worse at any point earlier when he was clearly being restrained while trying to get to her. As I said before, I don't want to indict him on speculation of what he might have done; however, I am also not going to say it is clear that he wouldn't have done more.

 

In the end, IMO, he crossed the line with the behavior he did engage in and the NFL and his team have every right to impose some punishment. How much punishment, the consistency of that punishment in regard to other players, and whether he deserves another chance are all different topics.

[longtimebillsfan]

As despicable as his actions were, I don't think he should have no chance for redemption.  If he gets counselling, he is serious about it and works the process (sorry) maybe he will earn the right to play in the NFL again. 

 

He could turn this situation into a positive by becoming an advocate of domestic nonviolence.  

 

Maybe I am feeling the after affects of our Christmas party last night, but if he shows true remorse and turns himself around, why not give him a second change?

3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

I’ll take Hunt over Kaepernick, he doesn’t suck at football. 

I like your Avatar.  That was a great movie.