Is Vander Eshe to Edmunds the same as Juju to Zay

[BuffaloBillyG]

LVE and Jaylon Smith are an incredible young LB duo. Much like I see Milano and Edmunds being going forward. Difference is you will hear a LOT more about LVE and JS because they play for Dallas. 

 

It does, however get a bit frustrating in my opinion that Buffalo always seems to draft the guy that "needs time" and isn't an instant gratification. 

[snamsnoops]

5 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

This man is fantastic, looks like the real deal.  

 

The Saints dynamic running game wanted no parts of Vander Eshe 

 

Another unnecessary trade up from Beane ? 

 lil premature with this. Both seem to be playing well for rookies. Edmunds is 19 20 and Esche is 22.. 

 

I think they both will be good ones, but with being rookies and Edmunds so young. It is way way to early for this.... Maybe in like 3 years or so!

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by snamsnoops

[Bing Bong]

25 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

You guys want AJ Hawk or Brian Urlacher? 

He's young so he certainly has a high ceiling. But so did Barkevious Mingo. Not that Edmunds has outplayed Mingo by far.. but he's not even close to Urlacher's jock strap. Athleticism doesn't help you have perfect tackling form and game speed like LVE has shown immediately diagnosing plays to Kamara and swallowing the most elusive runner up allll game. That was an amazing performance Edmunds has not shown the ability to do.

 

He is very young.. he is calling signals (I don't get why that's such a big deal for his instinctual play vs LVE).. LVE likely has a better supporting class. But in a vacuum. LVE is still better. And he's already a great AJ Hawk type, like he can't improve and Edmunds can? He was a phenomenal pick by the Cowboys. I'm not rueing not getting him.. I mean many "anaylsts" criticized the LVE pick and praised Edmunds at the time. I just appreciate watching him help lock down the best offense in the league looking like anything but a rookie. Edmunds looks like a rookie and shows flashes and sky is the limit. But that's never a given, I'd take a Tre White rookie year over a rookie guy that COULD BE Darrrelle Revis. 

 

Edmunds has a long way to go to be HOF Urlacher. LVE is if not better than AJ Hawk already! That defense is fun to watch! 

 

Didn't we take Lawson over Myles Jack and Jaylon Smith.. oof! The cowboys have crushed us at drafting seems at the same position behind ours too. That defense is going to take them places.

16 minutes ago, No Place To Hyde said:

It does, however get a bit frustrating in my opinion that Buffalo always seems to draft the guy that "needs time" and isn't an instant gratification. 

And we post a million excuses for stunted development until we run somebody out of town 3 years later gleefully.

 

I'll simply ask: how nice would it be to get Tre White caliber rookie years instead of praying for projects needing time?

 

And I was hoping Edmunds would do it in his, but geez 19?? He absolutely has every reason to need time. When he's 23 I'll have my mind made up. I'm sure he has a Rolando McClain floor and an Urlacher ceiling.. so I love the floor to ceiling. And it will be a while before he shows where he is between that range.

Edited November 30, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Logic]

Leighton Vander Esch was 22 on draft day.

Tremaine Edmunds was 19.

I'm not taking anything away from LVE. He looks great. Tremaine hasn't been a slouch, either. Just in the Jags game alone, he tipped a ball in a key moment, allowing Poyer to intercept it. It's not as if he hasn't been making plays, too.

Let's just see after two or three years, who has turned out to be the best pick. Judging this matter 12 games in -- especially when one of the guys just turned 20 years old -- is silly.

[Bing Bong]

21 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

 

He's got the range because he can diagnose the reads and plays like the offense is playing in slow motion! Game speed. High IQ. And of course.. he's extremely athletic we saw it last night!

Edited November 30, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[wppete]

Not even close. Edmunds is going to be a star in this league.

[blacklabel]

These hindsight posts are getting ridiculous. Just because another player in the same draft had a good game doesn't mean the player your team picked is all of a sudden unworthy of the draft slot he was selected in. Vander Esch made a few flash plays last night. Edmunds has had his own share of big plays as well. Edmunds is still also only 20 years old and handling a ton of responsibilities on defense already. He's only gonna get better. He has the higher ceiling and more athletic talent. Both guys are probably going to be good, solid players for the next 10 years in this league.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, blacklabel said:

These hindsight posts are getting ridiculous. Just because another player in the same draft had a good game doesn't mean the player your team picked is all of a sudden unworthy of the draft slot he was selected in. Vander Esch made a few flash plays last night. Edmunds has had his own share of big plays as well. Edmunds is still also only 20 years old and handling a ton of responsibilities on defense already. He's only gonna get better. He has the higher ceiling and more athletic talent. Both guys are probably going to be good, solid players for the next 10 years in this league.

 

We hope that Edmunds gets better and he may very well do just that, but there's no guarantee.  Just ask the Texans regarding Amobi Okoye who was very young when he came into the league with the 10th overall pick. 

[Doc]

30 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

 

 

LVE's responsibility was the RB, he was unblocked, and he made the tackle both times.  Not sure what that video was supposed to prove, other than Smith should have been flagged for helmet-to-helmet.

[blacklabel]

7 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

We hope that Edmunds gets better and he may very well do just that, but there's no guarantee.  Just ask the Texans regarding Amobi Okoye who was very young when he came into the league with the 10th overall pick. 

 

That can be said about any player, that there's no guarantee, no sure bets, etc. It applies to all players. Edmunds may have different responsibilities than Vander Esch at this point as well, who knows? We don't, cause we ain't at practice and we ain't in the huddle. 

 

And I think Edmunds will get better because of the skills he already has and the situation he is in. McDermott knows how to coach up LBs and DBs. They probably haven't quite thrown everything at him just yet but by the end of the season I'm sure they'll be saying there wasn't a lot that they didn't assign to him. Edmunds has the work ethic to go along with the athletic talent as well. Some guys come into the league and figure they can coast on athleticism alone and don't bother to do their homework. That's not Edmunds. He'll be fine. Vander Esch will probably be fine as well. Both guys look like they're poised to have nice careers.

Edited November 30, 2018 by blacklabel

[Bill_with_it]

2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

This man is fantastic, looks like the real deal.  

 

The Saints dynamic running game wanted no parts of Vander Eshe 

 

Another unnecessary trade up from Beane ? 

Yeah lets discount the whole they have Smith on their team to; the orher instinctual freak of nature. The answer is no.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

Yeah, I think Edmunds is wayyyy better.  

 

His ability to get side line to side line is unmatched. The effect that has against opposing offenses is huge.  I mean, we are the #2 defense in the league.   

 

Also, lots of guys rack up tackles.  See Preston Brown.  That doesn't make them game changing linebackers. 

Edited November 30, 2018 by JoshAllenHasBigHands

[Bing Bong]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

LVE's responsibility was the RB, he was unblocked, and he made the tackle both times.  Not sure what that video was supposed to prove, other than Smith should have been flagged for helmet-to-helmet.

yeah that video doesn't show much. But I do like the play at the end, there was no indecisiveness and he had an awareness to time his attach when the free center began flailing looking for block. I doubt there's a "LVE Saints game every play compilation video" but if you saw the game last night and the Eagles before that. He simply has that instinct to follow the play and shed blockers as he does it.

 

And he's not unathletic by any means. Maybe he doesn't quite have the "range" Edmunds does, but how much range do you need? He diagnoses plays fast enough at the NFL level to be at the right place right time and is athletic enough to execute it. He hit consistently the game's most elusive runner in the flats, the power runner up the middle.. for little YAC or YPC. I haven't seen him miss a tackle last two games and I've seen him STOP the RB from falling forward rather than pulilng the ole Pozluszny "make a tackle piggy backing the ball carrier up another 4 yards."

[aceman_16]

3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

This man is fantastic, looks like the real deal.  

 

The Saints dynamic running game wanted no parts of Vander Eshe 

 

Another unnecessary trade up from Beane ? 

No...Edmund's is better.

[BillsFan4]

The Bills are betting on Edmunds higher ceiling. 

 

It isn’t about just this season. It’s about next year and the years that follow. 

 

Edmunds has a ridiculously high ceiling, and the Bills have one of the better (IMO) LB coaches in the NFL, plus a head coach who has shown an ability to develop LBs. 

They are betting on this coaching staff being able to develop Edmunds into the player he has the potential to become. 

 

I like that the Bills didn’t just make the safe(er) pick. This regime wants greatness and they are willing to take some risks to achieve it. 

 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

The Bills are betting on Edmunds higher ceiling. 

 

It isn’t about just this season. It’s about next year and the years that follow. 

 

Edmunds has a ridiculously high ceiling, and the Bills have one of the better (IMO) LB coaches in the NFL, plus a head coach who has shown an ability to develop LBs. 

They are betting on this coaching staff being able to develop Edmunds into the player he has the potential to become. 

 

I like that the Bills didn’t just make the safe(er) pick. This regime wants greatness and they are willing to take some risks to achieve it. 

 

 

Even this season he has been really good.  Just his length and range alone, and how they have affected the passing game, have been huge.  Lots of guys rack up tackles.  That doesn't mean they have the longevity to be a game changer long term. 

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Edmunds flashes a few times each game, especially in pass d where LVE really doesn’t have that kind of range.

 

Zay doesn’t flash - he’s getting more consistent and his blocking is becoming a strength but he’s low ceiling.

 

I think LVE is significantly better in coverage right now. In fact, I think that's one of Edmunds' weaknesses at the moment.

 

FWIW, LVE is ranked as the 3rd best linebacker in the league in pass coverage per PFF. Edmunds ranks 74th out of 82.

[Teddy KGB]

3 minutes ago, aceman_16 said:

No...Edmund's is better.

 

That would be a false statement as of today.  

 

VDE ranked top 6 

 

T Edmunds ranked top 71 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I think it is totally different actually. At draft time I felt Zay was a safer choice than JuJu who is explosive but was a bit raw in some of his fundamentals - route running etc.

 

With Edmunds I actually felt like both he and VDE were a little raw but that Edmunds was the higher ceiling guy. Sometimes when you take that explosive, athletic freak it take a while for their fundamentals to catch up. I think that is where the Bills are with Edmunds. It is a different position than with Zay.

 

 

Juju and Edmunds were both 20 years old to start their rookie seasons.

 

Zay is almost 2 years older than Juju..........and like Edmunds he was raised by a stud NFL father..............and yet they have been grossly outplayed by a WR 2 years his junior and a dude at LB who is in just his 4th season of playing 11 man football,  respectively.

 

Point is.........you are what you prove you are on the football field.

 

Edmunds could get better........or not..........his age doesn't necessarily have anything to do with his much slower career start than LVE.    

 

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Even this season he has been really good.  Just his length and range alone, and how they have affected the passing game, have been huge.  Lots of guys rack up tackles.  That doesn't mean they have the longevity to be a game changer long term. 

 

Not the case. He's been inconsistent in both the run game and pass coverage with good games and bad.