Is Vander Eshe to Edmunds the same as Juju to Zay

[FeelingOnYouboty]

12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Are people really unhappy with Edmunds?  I mean the kid has show a lot of potential already, his teammates rave about him, he has drawn praise from opposing teams and players, etc etc.  Is LVE having a better rookie season, sure, but he also plays on a better team.  Bills defense was a wreck the first 6 quarters of the year...then Allen got hurt and Pickerman and Company were beyond atrocious putting the D on the field a lot and frequently with short fields.  

 

So is it really fair to compare the two situations?  I mean what if Edmunds went to Dallas and LVE came to Buffalo?  We dont really know if LVE would still be making the same impact here as he is in Dallas in that system.  

 

Its an NFL draft, there are going to be great players found all up and down it.  You cant sit here and now hate on our staff for trading up to get a guy they coveted on draft night.  Especially given he has flashed a lot of that upside many times this year.  He hasn't had a perfect year, but hes a rookie on a 4 win team.  

 

I mean what is the point of this?  Why cant both teams have gotten a player who can be good for a very long time?  This need to try and always prove the Bills made a mistake is foolish.  When I sit back and look at our draft, the first thing that pops out to me is WOW.  We look like we may have a had a monster draft...landing both Allen and Edmunds, to go along with Taron, Phillips, and Teller who all look like they have the potential to be good rotational guys or better.  

 

Two strong drafts = People still complaining.  I mean people act like a GM is supposed to magically identify who the player on the board still is going to have the absolute best career with each pick.  Its insane the way fans nit pick these drafts once they safely have all the data way after the fact.  

 

Bills had a good draft.  Period.  Move on.

 

He's raw but I like him and again McDermott deserves the benefit of the doubt when it comes to DB's and LB's. I trust him.

[corta765]

13 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

But Allen did show instant gratification this season. That's fantastic is it not. Albeit a little later but so did LVE. I hate playing the "wish we had XXX players we never drafted" as much as the next guy. But instant returns are great. That's one less season where we find out if our guy can play vs not. Had Edmunds balled out this year we wouldn't be on pins and needles that next year is the year.. and if that doesn't work we're even more nervous year 3 this is the year!

 

So I respect JuJu and LVE's quick returns. They're simply on the fast tracks to great careers. We just have to hope Zay and Edmunds pan out later. The Mahomes miss isn't so bad because we knew day one he was a shut down corner. I'm rooting for Zay and Edmunds to justify their status, and every year they don't is diminishing chances they will. 

 

Knowing someone can play high level football immediately is fantastic. It means not wasting opportunity cost. No one in their right mind wants Zay and Edmunds cut of course we're rooting for them to play top ball ASAP. It's not impatience, we're very likely going to see their contracts out. Felt the same way about Shaq Lawson. But we can acknowledge it'd be great to see them show why we drafted them same way it's great JA is showing it.

 

Would you rather have Allen or Rosen at this point? Why do you pick which one? Because Allen has had a better season rookie year.

 

I'm sure Cardinals fans are preaching patience as they should but don't tell me they're not biting their nails they might have whiffed that one.

 

Allen certainly has had his moments and seems to have already progressed from completely raw rookie to rookie with some things figured out and a lot of room to grow. But that is not a precusor or guarantee either. QB's in the NFL need 2 years to gave a true judgement unless they tirefire out the way EJ did. I would not say that Rosen has been a tirefire he just hasn't been good and is in a pretty poor situation. I don't disagree that Cards fans are probably gritting their teeth a little, but that offensive line is a firing squad for the QB and they don't scheme to give him a chance. The Bills offense is not much more talented but at least Daboll tries to put his guy in a position to have a chance a lot. That is not being done in AZ.

[NewEraBills]

Neither are having the type of season Darius Leonard is having IMO.  In any case with these two, I think athletically, Edmunds is the guy with the upper hand, probably not by much.  But just a dirty dog linebacker, right now LVE looks more the part for that.  LVE just reminds me of the old school linebackers in attitude with the new school guys athleticism.  The Dallas defense may not be asking LVE to process and do the things that Edmunds is being asked to, I'm not sure, so I won't get into that, but right now, the eye test has LVE ahead by a mile. 

 

What I can say, from what I can gather on the surface, is that Edmunds tends to make his biggest mistakes when we run Quarters coverage (at least that's what it looks like) the crossing route, which the third WR typically runs is always open and he's supposed to cover it in base quarters.  The Chargers killed us with just that and it was because of his inexperience.  Other teams are following suit.  Edmunds run defense is just OK at this point.  He gets lost a lot, does too much processing and not enough moving at times.  There are some run plays that he diagnoses really well and he moves fast, but there are others that have him guessing and playing flat footed and ultimately getting washed out of the play.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I can’t belive they took Marcus Easley over Antonio Brown ?

 

Edited December 12, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[BillsMafia13]

18 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I'll take a guy that's already a key player in one of the league best defenses rookie year over a guy "THAT'S ONLY 19 AND MIGHT BE AS GOOD AS, AND IF WE'RE LUCKY, BETTER THAN LVE".

 

There's a thing called proven commodities in this league. The faster a rookie picks up the game the better. Who cares about potential when we're looking at someone that's met if not already exceeded potential. Being 19 doesn't mean a hill a beans. It makes you a bigger question mark as to what you're going to turn into.

Take your blinders off man, you must be the only one who doesnt recognize TE19 is way younger than LVE22.  Ignoring that is just plain short sighted.  Now im not saying one will be better than the other but to condemn Edmunds after 14 games is just stupid.  if you didnt expect a greater learning curve for a 19 year old vs a 22 year old you're stubborn to look at something rationally.  I bet TE will be better in 3 years than LVE is now,  but at this point I like our boy

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I can’t belive they took Marcus Easley over Antonio Brown ?

 

Or Leif Larsen over Brady!

 

but in all seriousness, the 1st and 2nd rounds are the money rounds.  Trading up for a non qb is rarely the smart choice and it’s something people killed Whaley for.  I’m not even made about Edmunds but the Zay trade up is awful.  

[BullBuchanan]

On 12/11/2018 at 6:49 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

Are people really unhappy with Edmunds?  I mean the kid has show a lot of potential already, his teammates rave about him, he has drawn praise from opposing teams and players, etc etc.  Is LVE having a better rookie season, sure, but he also plays on a better team.  Bills defense was a wreck the first 6 quarters of the year...then Allen got hurt and Pickerman and Company were beyond atrocious putting the D on the field a lot and frequently with short fields.  

 

So is it really fair to compare the two situations?  I mean what if Edmunds went to Dallas and LVE came to Buffalo?  We dont really know if LVE would still be making the same impact here as he is in Dallas in that system.  

 

Its an NFL draft, there are going to be great players found all up and down it.  You cant sit here and now hate on our staff for trading up to get a guy they coveted on draft night.  Especially given he has flashed a lot of that upside many times this year.  He hasn't had a perfect year, but hes a rookie on a 4 win team.  

 

I mean what is the point of this?  Why cant both teams have gotten a player who can be good for a very long time?  This need to try and always prove the Bills made a mistake is foolish.  When I sit back and look at our draft, the first thing that pops out to me is WOW.  We look like we may have a had a monster draft...landing both Allen and Edmunds, to go along with Taron, Phillips, and Teller who all look like they have the potential to be good rotational guys or better.  

 

Two strong drafts = People still complaining.  I mean people act like a GM is supposed to magically identify who the player on the board still is going to have the absolute best career with each pick.  Its insane the way fans nit pick these drafts once they safely have all the data way after the fact.  

 

Bills had a good draft.  Period.  Move on.

I'm not stoked about Edmunds at this point. So far he hasn't shown me anything special to offset his lack of skill at the MLB position. As a general rule, I believe it's best to build your team around a high floor, rather than a high ceiling. The NFL as a whole makes way too much out of potential. We see it as it plays out with regards to trades. Until the mega-trades this year, it was common to get lower draft compensation Insert other media for proven commodities than what they would cost if you drafted them in April, and that always blew my mind.

I'll take the guy that can play football over the combine warrior if their draft slot is equal 10 times out of 10. There are so many guys that weren't prototype players that turned into HOFers in this league, that I think it's ridiculous to watch teams gamble on "upside". Edmunds isn't a smash mouth tackler, so it already has me worried about what his true ceiling is. Through season one, I think we would've been better off with Preston Brown, and that doesn't encourage me. This kid has a mountain of hype to climb in order to be worth of the compensation they used to draft him.

 

The Bills would never ever do it, because they're the Bills, but I think Edmunds belongs on the strong side, with a true MLB that can shut down the run inside.

Edited December 15, 2018 by BullBuchanan

[SoCal Deek]

6 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

The Bills would never ever do it, because they're the Bills, but I think Edmunds belongs on the strong side, with a true MLB that can shut down the run inside.

This! End thread.

[Doc]

40 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

This! End thread.

 

Not yet:

 

Kyle Williams passes the torch to Tremaine Edmunds

 

Kyle’s done. Hopefully they offer him a coaching position.

[buffaloboyinATL]

After watching the Cowboys/Rams playoff game last night and seeing Vander Eche controlled for most of the game, I hope we can put this silly argument behind us. 

 

Vander Eche is a good player, and had a rookie game, like all rookies do, but he is not better than Edmunds at this point in his career. They both have very high ceilings. 

[Teddy KGB]

22 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

After watching the Cowboys/Rams playoff game last night and seeing Vander Eche controlled for most of the game, I hope we can put this silly argument behind us. 

 

Vander Eche is a good player, and had a rookie game, like all rookies do, but he is not better than Edmunds at this point in his career. They both have very high ceilings. 

 

Maybe.    The game Vander Esch has vs the Saints was insanely impressive.  

 

As was Edmunds vs the Dolphins.  

[Bangarang]

23 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

After watching the Cowboys/Rams playoff game last night and seeing Vander Eche controlled for most of the game, I hope we can put this silly argument behind us. 

 

Vander Eche is a good player, and had a rookie game, like all rookies do, but he is not better than Edmunds at this point in his career. They both have very high ceilings. 

 

One game doesn’t put any argument to rest. 

[GreggTX]

No doubt about it. Vander Esche is way better than Edmunds is right now, but let's see how they fare in 2019 before making any final judgement.

[buffaloboyinATL]

3 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

One game doesn’t put any argument to rest. 

No, but in my opinion they have been relatively even all year, this just shows Vander Eche can have off days too, just like Edmunds. Not nearly enough difference between them to call Edmunds a mistake. That is my main point.

6 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Thanks for that dynamic addition to the thread ??. 

 

Pm me if you feel the name to run that yap.

 

Threads from months ago.  

Sorry for bringing it back. I always try to add to an existing conversation rather than start a new thread. I understand opinions can change once new data is available. 

[Teddy KGB]

6 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

 

Sorry for bringing it back. I always try to add to an existing conversation rather than start a new thread. I understand opinions can change once new data is available. 

 

Not a problem at all.   The only problem is that other posters talking smack.  

 

Something he would never do in a real

life setting ??‍♂️

[Doc]

You can't compare them because they don't play the same position.

[loyal2dagame]

Vander Eche plays for a high profile team in a big market.  Talking heads tend to play more lip service to those team's players and overhype them. Look at all the Dak Prescott talk this week leading up to the game before he lead an egg.

Vander Eche had a good rookie year,  but I'm glad we have Edmunds. Edmunds went from looking lost in the beginning of the season to performing like a solid player by the end. He's developing as he goes and that's exactly what i hoped to see from him. I think Edmunds turns out to be more valuable in the longrun.

[Nextmanup]

Does anyone else like Vander Eshe's name as much as I do?

 

Sounds cool, like one of the bad guy characters from a Star Wars movie.

 

"Young Skywalker knew he could only control his destiny by directly confronting, and defeating, Sith Lord Vander Eshe."

 

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Maybe.    The game Vander Esch has vs the Saints was insanely impressive.  

 

As was Edmunds vs the Dolphins.  

The hell you been?

 

At this point, I'd rather have LVE, but Edmunds bounced back in the finale. I just don't know how much to take away from that game as it seemed like the Fins quit. Edmunds needs to start playing angry; maybe he needs a messy breakup or something. Got all the talent in the world. Prefer LVE's production for the moment but time will tell.

Edited January 13, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[Teddy KGB]

12 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

The hell you been?

 

At this point, I'd rather have LVE, but Edmunds bounced back in the finale. I just don't know how much to take away from that game as it seemed like the Fins quit. Edmunds needs to start playing angry; maybe he needs a messy breakup or something. Got all the talent in the world. Prefer LVE's production for the moment but time will tell.

 

Little vacation for a firm retort vs one of the Josh Allen bashers after a good game from Allen 

 

I think.      

 

If I had to pick one at gunpoint, I’d go with LVE but both look like winners and wouldn’t be surprised if Edmunds steps it up another level. 

 

When i I started this thread months ago it was LVE in a landslide.