Cowboys AND BEARS just showed why I keep saying Defense MATTERS still

[mannc]

Just now, row_33 said:

 

 

it doesn't matter

 

one team will pack it in a lot earlier on a Thursday than they will on Sundays

 

 

Sounds like you’ve done a scientific study.  What were your findings?

[Bobby Hooks]

 

I’m glad this thread was made. I was worried the OP didn’t think defense mattered anymore.

 

I wish I still thought defense mattered in football. 

 

Recently someone asked me and I was all like “nope!”

Edited November 30, 2018 by Bobby Hooks

[ctk232]

16 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

And who lost game?  And who would be advancing in the playoffs and who would be going home if this was a playoff game?

 

PS:  14 of last 20 SB champions had a defensive HC.  The top two scoring offenses in NFL history both had defensive Head Coaches.  

So this is just blatantly false.

 

Another way of saying this is 5 different coaches won the SB in the past 20 years that are defensively-minded. Only 9 have been won by a team with a defensive minded HC at the time. To break it down, of those 9, 5 were Belly in NE with Tom Brady, so skews that one just a bit. The others were Dungy, Cowher, Tomlin, and Carroll. I also don't know how you counted coaches with an ST background, but the balance is there. 

 

I'm so tired of these offensive v. defensive minded HCs affecting how things go. There's no statistical proof one way or the other. GREAT HC's compensate for any lack of knowledge on the other side of the ball with exceptional coordinators and assistants. These can be identified by the coach, but having a good GM and FO capable of identifying these individuals is equally important as they are the ones that make the hire. Not to mention so much more goes into winning an SB than whatever defensive/offensive school the coach is from.

[vorpma]

2 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

Fair enough sir. We shall see. I actually hope you’re right. I prefer defence over offence

Good debate, keep in touch! Hopefully we pull off another win Sunday!

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, ctk232 said:

So this is just blatantly false.

 

Another way of saying this is 5 different coaches won the SB in the past 20 years that are defensively-minded. Only 9 have been won by a team with a defensive minded HC at the time. To break it down, of those 9, 5 were Belly in NE with Tom Brady, so skews that one just a bit. The others were Dungy, Cowher, Tomlin, and Carroll. I also don't know how you counted coaches with an ST background, but the balance is there. 

 

I'm so tired of these offensive v. defensive minded HCs affecting how things go. There's no statistical proof one way or the other. GREAT HC's compensate for any lack of knowledge on the other side of the ball with exceptional coordinators and assistants. These can be identified by the coach, but having a good GM and FO capable of identifying these individuals is equally important as they are the ones that make the hire. Not to mention so much more goes into winning an SB than whatever defensive/offensive school the coach is from.

 

One, you are incorrect. You left guys out like John Fox, Tom Coughlin for instance.  Without even looking that’s 3 more you left out.  

 

But it doesn’t matter, you don’t realize it, but you and I are on same page as you actually agree with me overall as we both have the same point.  My case is not that we MUST have a DC.  My argument is against those insisting we can ONLY win with an offensive minded HC in which I provided information disputing that notion.

 

My stance is that it doesn’t matter if your HC comes from offensive or defensive background.  If they are a good HC is all that matters. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

They did a great job bottling up kamara and just... crushing him consistently when he cut up field.  I was honestly concerned he wouldnt make it out of that game.

 

They stopped the run really well, put them in tough down and distances all game.  They also did a great job just sticking to their receivers in man, and not letting kamara and ingram hurt them in the passing game.

 

The cowboys linebackers played excellent but kamara (even before being knocked silly) seemed a little lethargic and wasn’t as sharp in route running, etc... he’s normally electric but also precise.

[ctk232]

27 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

One, you are incorrect. You left guys out like John Fox, Tom Coughlin for instance.  Without even looking that’s 3 more you left out.  

 

But it doesn’t matter, you don’t realize it, but you and I are on same page as you actually agree with me overall as we both have the same point.  My case is not that we MUST have a DC.  My argument is against those insisting we can ONLY win with an offensive minded HC in which I provided information disputing that notion.

 

My stance is that it doesn’t matter if your HC comes from offensive or defensive background.  If they are a good HC is all that matters. 

Just fact-checking but when did John Fox win? Kubiak was HC of the broncos and Fox lost to Belly in the SB when he was with the Panthers. Tom Coughlin was always an offensive coach? I'm just confused where you're getting these facts. Coughlin was an OC at cuse, WR and QB coach exclusively until he became HC. 

 

I definitely don't disagree with your point on defensive v. offensive minded HCs being successful in the least - but there's better evidence to provide to this outside of claiming 14 of the last 20 winners were coached by a defensive coach. 

[apuszczalowski]

14 hours ago, mannc said:

Well, if it was a playoff game it would have been in NO and quite likely a different result.  Cowboys d looked very good, but it was one game.  Let’s keep perspective.  

How many visiting teams have won on Thursday nights this year? I thought they showed a stat earlier that showed the visitors did not have much luck in thursday night this year.

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

How many visiting teams have won on Thursday nights this year? I thought they showed a stat earlier that showed the visitors did not have much luck in thursday night this year.

I’m not sure, but it shouldn’t matter, as both teams played on thanksging and therefore had a full week’s rest.

[apuszczalowski]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

I’m not sure, but it shouldn’t matter, as both teams played on thanksging and therefore had a full week’s rest.

Not saying the rest matters, just that the visiting teams on Thursdays have not faired well on Thursdays.

[Alphadawg7]

56 minutes ago, ctk232 said:

Just fact-checking but when did John Fox win? Kubiak was HC of the broncos and Fox lost to Belly in the SB when he was with the Panthers. Tom Coughlin was always an offensive coach? I'm just confused where you're getting these facts. Coughlin was an OC at cuse, WR and QB coach exclusively until he became HC. 

 

I definitely don't disagree with your point on defensive v. offensive minded HCs being successful in the least - but there's better evidence to provide to this outside of claiming 14 of the last 20 winners were coached by a defensive coach. 

 

Ah well thats on me then, I have always thought Coughlin had been a DC for Parcells at some point.  Maybe it was because he was part of so many defensive heavy teams, but just literally for as long as I have known Coughlin thought he had defensive background.  

 

And when I looked at Fox, it said he was the coach until 2015, I didn't realize he left at the beginning of 2015 and wasnt part of the Super Bowl winning team that year.  So that was an ovesight, so my apologies.  One was just a long incorrect understanding of Coughlins background and the other was a misread on my part when I was looking at the past winners.  

 

But yes, original point remains and we are in agreement on.  

23 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

How many visiting teams have won on Thursday nights this year? I thought they showed a stat earlier that showed the visitors did not have much luck in thursday night this year.

 

But they had the same amount of time to prepare, and it was a full week.  So this doesn't really apply here compared to a normal Thursday night game since they both played on Thanksgiving.  

 

[apuszczalowski]

39 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

But they had the same amount of time to prepare, and it was a full week.  So this doesn't really apply here compared to a normal Thursday night game since they both played on Thanksgiving.  

 

That has nothing to do with what I am talking about, No where did I ever say that one had more time to prepare then the other, just that fact that it seems THE VISITING TEAM PLAYING ON THURSDAY NIGHTS THIS YEAR HAVE NOT FAIRED WELL. Never mentioned anything about a team having more time to prepare then the other, just that this year the visitors have not won many of them

 

So I just looked it up, Thursday night games, the visitors are 2-11 with the Eagles beating the Giants in week 5, and the Broncos beating the cardinals in Week 6

If you include all the Thanksgiving day games, its 3-12 with the Bears beating the Lions

 

Again, because reading comprehension seems to be low, this is just the results of the game, not getting into whether one team had more or less time then the other to prepare,  the visitors have not faired well in the thursday night games.

[stuvian]

21 hours ago, Domdab99 said:

you know what matters more?

 

Brees missing every other throw

NO receivers dropping passes

lots of flags

are you saying he's Andrew Luck style done? I didn't have the guts to say it....

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

That has nothing to do with what I am talking about, No where did I ever say that one had more time to prepare then the other, just that fact that it seems THE VISITING TEAM PLAYING ON THURSDAY NIGHTS THIS YEAR HAVE NOT FAIRED WELL. Never mentioned anything about a team having more time to prepare then the other, just that this year the visitors have not won many of them

 

So I just looked it up, Thursday night games, the visitors are 2-11 with the Eagles beating the Giants in week 5, and the Broncos beating the cardinals in Week 6

If you include all the Thanksgiving day games, its 3-12 with the Bears beating the Lions

 

Again, because reading comprehension seems to be low, this is just the results of the game, not getting into whether one team had more or less time then the other to prepare,  the visitors have not faired well in the thursday night games.

 

But that relates to a team traveling on a short week.  Saints did not have a short week, they had the standard full week given they played last Thursday, so again irrelevant to bring up Thursday win loss records when this doesn’t have the factors that make other Thursday games different than Sunday games, which is a road team having to travel on a short week.

 

So still does not apply to this exact game.  This was no different than a Sunday night road game for the Saints, full week to prepare and travel.  

Edited December 1, 2018 by Alphadawg7

[mrags]

18 hours ago, NewDayBills said:

Funny thing about our defense is we're a player or two away before we enter that elite echelon. We're really good now but a shutdown corner opposite of Tre White and we'd go into Seattle Seahawks territory from their SB era. Wouldn't mind another EDGE behind Lorax. Someone who can play SLB and DE.

Unfortunately, another year means Kyle won’t be here or he’ll be even older. Hughes will be older. Lorax will be dust by the time next season hits. We’re still short another edge rusher. 1 LB at the least, and 1 DB. It’s definately a strength of our team but if we don’t get it done next season, a lot is going to fall apart. 

[Elite Poster]

Thursday. Night. Home. Team. 

 

The only two home teams that have lost Thursday are Giants and Cardinals. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But that relates to a team traveling on a short week.  Saints did not have a short week, they had the standard full week given they played last Thursday, so again irrelevant to bring up Thursday win loss records when this doesn’t have the factors that make other Thursday games different than Sunday games, which is a road team having to travel on a short week.

 

So still does not apply to this exact game.  This was no different than a Sunday night road game for the Saints, full week to prepare and travel.  

 

Disrupted routine. Same reason why teams struggle with coast to coast trips. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Elite Poster

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, apuszczalowski said:

That has nothing to do with what I am talking about, No where did I ever say that one had more time to prepare then the other, just that fact that it seems THE VISITING TEAM PLAYING ON THURSDAY NIGHTS THIS YEAR HAVE NOT FAIRED WELL. Never mentioned anything about a team having more time to prepare then the other, just that this year the visitors have not won many of them

 

So I just looked it up, Thursday night games, the visitors are 2-11 with the Eagles beating the Giants in week 5, and the Broncos beating the cardinals in Week 6

If you include all the Thanksgiving day games, its 3-12 with the Bears beating the Lions

 

Again, because reading comprehension seems to be low, this is just the results of the game, not getting into whether one team had more or less time then the other to prepare,  the visitors have not faired well in the thursday night games.

 

 

Perhaps it's not so much the visitors aren't faring well on Thursday nights. Perhaps it's just a matter of better teams winning.

 

Dallas beating the Saints was the first game on Thursday this year where Vegas didn't correctly pick the game. The eleven home teams that won were all favored. So were the two road teams that won. The better teams won.

 

Thursday has got nothing to do with it. It comes down to Dallas doing a terrific job on defence, physically disrupting pass routes and pressuring Brees.

 

 

 

Anyone see any major upsets here? Games that come down to disrupted routines?

 

ATL @ PHI - Philly was a home favorite, and won

BAL @ CIN - Cincy were one point home favorites and won

NYJ @ CLE - Browns were a home favorite and won

MIN @ LAR - Rams 6.5 point home faves and won

IND @ NE - Pats home favorites won

PHI @ NYG - Philly a road favorite won

DEN @ ARI - Denver a small road fave wins

MIA @ HOU - Texans 7 point home faves won

OAK @ SF - 49ers home favorites won

CAR @ PIT - Steelers 3.5 point home faves won

GB @ SEA - Seahawks 2.5 point home faves won

ATL @ NO - Saints 13 point home faves

NO @ DAL - Saints 7 point road faves lose

 

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Thurman#1

[billsfan_34]

On 11/30/2018 at 12:29 AM, Domdab99 said:

you know what matters more?

 

Brees missing every other throw

NO receivers dropping passes

lots of flags

Brees, Rodgers, Brady, and Big Ben all seem to be on the decline. A changing of the guard is amongst us.

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, row_33 said:

 

it was an upset, whoop dee doo, doesn't mean the entire ethos of the NFL has turned in one evening

 

 

 

... or one season.

[MAJBobby]

On 11/29/2018 at 11:52 PM, Alphadawg7 said:

Cowboys and their top 5 defense just shut down and beat the hottest team with the most efficient and best offense in football led by the MVP front runner and one of the best QBs of all time.  

 

Everyone keeps saying “game has changed”, “you must have offensive minded coach”, “you gotta throw for 300 yards most games”...blah blah blah.  Same crap people have said every year for 10 years.  Yet the two highest scoring offenses in NFL history combined to score 22 points in their SB losses to defensive teams.   Last year Brady threw for 500 yards and lost to a journeyman QB because the Pats D was so bad.  In fact, none of the top 5 highest scoring offenses in history won the SB, and only 3 reached it going 0-3 and all losing to defensive teams.

 

There are a lot of ways to win.  And come playoff time, defense matters a lot.  I love offense as much as anyone, don’t get me wrong, but just tired of all the absurd hot takes around here every time a high scoring game happens people crap on McD like he has no chance to succeed.  Like this weeks ridiculous thread on how our biggest mistake was not hiring Frank Reich.  Or all the threads on now we have to fire McD and hire some other offensive HC.  It’s ridiculous.

 

Personally, I love the way McD and Beane are building this team.  Built the D into a real strength, cleared our cap, and got a promising young QB to build around.  Plus they got extra picks this draft too.

 

Couple OL and WR additions and we will be on our way to being a team that could really contend for a long time.

 

Let them get past the first round. Then it means something