Bills QB Josh Allen is changing skeptical minds. ---- Brady Quinn apparently prefers potential over results

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I think Josh has to hit the weight room hard and squeeze every ounce of athletic ability out of his body. 

 

He’s never going to be Drew Brees accurate, or Peyton Manning-like pre-snap.

 

He looks like he will have to get by on broken plays and rolling out of the pocket.

 

To do that he has to build on his frame and try to make rare plays with physical ability. 

[Boca BIlls]

14 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

That has nothing to do with it at all. It's just where Allen is right now as a passer.

 

Barkley showcased a more typical passing game the week before with the same supporting cast.

 

You don't have to try to defend Allen. We're just talking about his development.

Barkley played an absolutely garbage defense and team in the Jets. Dont act like he did anything special.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Boca BIlls

[BB@Shooter]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think Josh has to hit the weight room hard and squeeze every ounce of athletic ability out of his body. 

 

He’s never going to be Drew Brees accurate, or Peyton Manning-like pre-snap.

 

He looks like he will have to get by on broken plays and rolling out of the pocket.

 

To do that he has to build on his frame and try to make rare plays with physical ability. 

He is a rookie, geez. And you came by this after 5 and a half games?  What about the Rams QB? Did you guess right about him? I could go on but why bother.

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I think Josh has to hit the weight room hard and squeeze every ounce of athletic ability out of his body. 

 

He’s never going to be Drew Brees accurate, or Peyton Manning-like pre-snap.

 

He looks like he will have to get by on broken plays and rolling out of the pocket.

 

To do that he has to build on his frame and try to make rare plays with physical ability. 

Build on that frame that just ran for 100 yards and mowed over linebackers? Too funny. Where do you guys come from?

[Bookie Man]

Am I the only one who thinks that the ball thrown to Zay over the middle got tipped by Calais? It's so hard to tell, but it looks like it just grazed his fingertips and altered it just a pinch.

 

The guy said Josh had slow eyes. He kind of does. But I think it's likely he'll get quicker with his reads over time. I keep forgetting how raw he was coming out. I'm not sure if I've seen a QB as raw go that high. But he also has that golden skill set. I liked how he seemed to start looking right, then coming back and throwing to the left side of the field. I am hoping to see more plays like the one drawn up to DT, that he unfortunately couldn't hang onto. Add a few strong OL and a speedster and this offense can open up a ton. If he develops his short to mid passing game, he could be special.

[JaCrispy]

3 hours ago, R Y G A R said:

Am I the only one who thinks that the ball thrown to Zay over the middle got tipped by Calais? It's so hard to tell, but it looks like it just grazed his fingertips and altered it just a pinch.

 

The guy said Josh had slow eyes. He kind of does. But I think it's likely he'll get quicker with his reads over time. I keep forgetting how raw he was coming out. I'm not sure if I've seen a QB as raw go that high. But he also has that golden skill set. I liked how he seemed to start looking right, then coming back and throwing to the left side of the field. I am hoping to see more plays like the one drawn up to DT, that he unfortunately couldn't hang onto. Add a few strong OL and a speedster and this offense can open up a ton. If he develops his short to mid passing game, he could be special.

Honestly, he is so raw it may take him 5 years before he reaches his potential...the pass may have been tipped...but we know that his accuracy can be spotty at times, too, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just a poor throw.

Edited December 1, 2018 by JaCrispy

[billsredneck1]

3 hours ago, R Y G A R said:

Am I the only one who thinks that the ball thrown to Zay over the middle got tipped by Calais? It's so hard to tell, but it looks like it just grazed his fingertips and altered it just a pinch.

 

The guy said Josh had slow eyes. He kind of does. But I think it's likely he'll get quicker with his reads over time. I keep forgetting how raw he was coming out. I'm not sure if I've seen a QB as raw go that high. But he also has that golden skill set. I liked how he seemed to start looking right, then coming back and throwing to the left side of the field. I am hoping to see more plays like the one drawn up to DT, that he unfortunately couldn't hang onto. Add a few strong OL and a speedster and this offense can open up a ton. If he develops his short to mid passing game, he could be special.

  a lot of people harp on his short game.  up until the jets game with the new adds at wr, every team we face stacked and crushed the line so i think that had a lot to do with it.

allen has had a little success hitting shady and ivory on swing passes.  i think dabol has held off on those and now that we can force teams to defend the whole field, things may loosen up underneath.

 

 i've been clamoring for two back sets to work the short passes for a while. i think dabol will now start to pull these plays out of the bag and finally give us that 2nd dimension to the passing game. i don't think it's about allen's inability to hit those in as much as until now those plays haven't been doable.

[Chicken Boo]

15 hours ago, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

We've addressed :16 as a bit behind the receiver although it was good coverage. 

 

Come on, 1:44 is nitpicking. Every QB throws a ball out of bounds like that literally every week. 

 

2:42 shows why it's hard to take you seriously. There is nothing wrong with that throw. That All in all, your anti-Allen crusade is tiresome and telling people to go cry in their pillow because of it is just sad. 

 

2:42 is in reference to the following play.  2:45 is a better marker, I guess. 

 

I'm not anti-Allen.  That's the thing.  

 

This fanbase has a Napoleon complex.  We've been bad for so long, that any criticism of the promising new QB is seen as being negative.

 

I'm not trying to run Allen out of town,  I'm just pointing out areas of his game that he needs to clean up.

 

After all these years, you'd think Bills fans would have thicker skin.

 

Johnny boy from Riverside started with the sarcasm, I'm just returning fire.  He's a big boy, he can take it.

13 hours ago, Warcodered said:

:16 wasn't that the one that was tipped?

1:44 look at the down and how far he has to for the first that one was a prayer for a 1st or at worst a punt.

2:42 directly into his receivers hands...how is that inaccurate?

2:51That one was either a bad throw or miscommunication.

3:30 Yeah that one wasn't good.

3:57 Thrown away

4:04 Somewhat off but he was hit as he was throwing it.

 

Trent Dilfer covered it pretty good in that interview about the Soul & Science

I don't see a lot of his throws that I think are not where he wants them to be.

 

2:42 is my mistake.  2:45 is the play I meant to reference. 

 

It's ok to point this stuff out, guys/gals.  Allen is raw.  We know this.  These are areas of his game that he needs to clean up.

Edited December 1, 2018 by Chicken Boo

[K-9]

14 hours ago, Warcodered said:

:16 wasn't that the one that was tipped?

1:44 look at the down and how far he has to for the first that one was a prayer for a 1st or at worst a punt.

2:42 directly into his receivers hands...how is that inaccurate?

2:51That one was either a bad throw or miscommunication.

3:30 Yeah that one wasn't good.

3:57 Thrown away

4:04 Somewhat off but he was hit as he was throwing it.

 

Trent Dilfer covered it pretty good in that interview about the Soul & Science

I don't see a lot of his throws that I think are not where he wants them to be.

“Feels like Favre. Feels like Elway.” 

 

Nice.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

12 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Barkley played an absolutely garbage defense and team in the Jets. Dont act like he did anything special.

The Jets passing defense is 15th against the pass.  

 

Not the worst but nowhere near the best.  

 

 

 

 

[Jay_Fixit]

11 hours ago, BB@Shooter said:

He is a rookie, geez. And you came by this after 5 and a half games?  What about the Rams QB? Did you guess right about him? I could go on but why bother.

Build on that frame that just ran for 100 yards and mowed over linebackers? Too funny. Where do you guys come from?

My favorite was “he’ll never be Peyton Manning like pre-snap.”

 

Apparently this guy sees the future. And also sees into Josh Allen’s brain.

[Guest K-GunJimKelly12]

On 11/30/2018 at 4:23 PM, TheElectricCompany said:

 

NCAA numbers: 

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/24/17271686/josh-allen-nfl-draft-2018-stats-analysis-comparisons

 

NFL numbers....pretty straight forward.  He's the 33rd rated PFF passer, and if you want to get into total and rate stats, his numbers are in the bottom 20%. 

 

I hope there is a day where all the stats scream "Hey, Josh is a top 10 QB!", but they never did leading up to the draft, and they are nowhere near that now. 

 

His NFL numbers are pretty straight forward, that's cool.  The guy has has played in 7 games and thrown 158 passes.  Besides PFF has proven in the past that their QB ratings are suspect.  As for the college numbers, like I said before, he played in an very different offense than everyone on that list.  He threw the ball 15-25 times a game and Wyoming ran a lot more deep routes that take time to develop than most big college programs.  If he were at Oklahoma and other number of colleges that throw 30-50 times a game with a lot more screens and shorter routes his completion percentage would have been a lot higher.  They also mention in the article about how the biggest take away is Allen's struggles with the blitz, but to my eye he has looked very good against the blitz in the NFL. 

 

That is the last I'll have to say here.  I only have so much time in a day to argue with loud mouth malcontents who would rather have Josh Allen fail to prove they are right, rather than enjoy the fact that he is winning us games, which is what he did against Jacksonville. 

Edited December 1, 2018 by K-GunJimKelly12

[Boca BIlls]

4 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

The Jets passing defense is 15th against the pass.  

 

Not the worst but nowhere near the best.  

 

 

 

 

One of the worst, stats don't tell the story. That us a team that was falling apart. 

[BB@Shooter]

11 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Honestly, he is so raw it may take him 5 years before he reaches his potential...the pass may have been tipped...but we know that his accuracy can be spotty at times, too, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just a poor throw.

 

Boy oh boy, you sure make it hard to tell that your are an Allen hater. All he has done is progress at a very high rate with hardly any weapons and a very suspect line. Only won three games out of the 5 he has finished, and is a rookie on top of it. Is he supposed to be playing like Kelly did during the Super Bowl years for you to say he is ok? Too funny. Are you really a Bills fan?

[JaCrispy]

18 hours ago, BB@Shooter said:

 

Boy oh boy, you sure make it hard to tell that your are an Allen hater. All he has done is progress at a very high rate with hardly any weapons and a very suspect line. Only won three games out of the 5 he has finished, and is a rookie on top of it. Is he supposed to be playing like Kelly did during the Super Bowl years for you to say he is ok? Too funny. Are you really a Bills fan?

Please stop with the 3rd grade accusations...if you want a legit conversation, ad hominem attacks in an attempt to discredit a view you disagree with is not the best route to go... however, if you just want an echo chamber of your own thoughts, carry on.

 

while I will admit Allen was not my first choice, I am anything but s hater...he does a lot of nice things to be excited about...however, ask anyone and they will tell you he averages about 2-3 passes a game of erratic throws...this goes back to his college days, so this is nothing new.

 

just because I would like him to clean it up does not make me hater, but someone who would like him to be the best possible QBs he can be ?

[BB@Shooter]

3 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Please stop with the 3rd grade accusations...if you want a legit conversation, ad hominem attacks in an attempt to discredit a view you disagree with is not the best route to go... however, if you just want an echo chamber of your own thoughts, carry on.

 

while I will admit Allen was not my first choice, I am anything but s hater...he does a lot of nice things to be excited about...however, ask anyone and they will tell you he averages about 2-3 passes a game of erratic throws...this goes back to his college days, so this is nothing new.

 

just because I would like him to clean it up does not make me hater, but someone who would like him to be the best possible QBs he can be ?

It makes you a hater because you can't get past it in your posts. Go back and read them. You keep poking at him every chance you get. I live in Laramie Wyoming and know exactly what he did as a player there. If you knew anything about his OC , offense , and lack of talent around him you could see past your dislike of him. Start to understand him. Big deal about some erratic throws. How about the throws that are dropped? Or the receivers that don't have enough talent to catch, get separation,  or run a clean route? I hear nothing from you about that. Or Allen moving in the pocket to avoid sacks, making the line look better than they are. He is a rookie, why are all you doubters not giving him a little slack? So don't roll up and point fingers at me, I am way more positive about the Bills as a whole than you. The only Bill I single out is Benjamin. He is lazy, entitled, and a cancer to the team.

[BB@Shooter]

20 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

His NFL numbers are pretty straight forward, that's cool.  The guy has has played in 7 games and thrown 158 passes.  Besides PFF has proven in the past that their QB ratings are suspect.  As for the college numbers, like I said before, he played in an very different offense than everyone on that list.  He threw the ball 15-25 times a game and Wyoming ran a lot more deep routes that take time to develop than most big college programs.  If he were at Oklahoma and other number of colleges that throw 30-50 times a game with a lot more screens and shorter routes his completion percentage would have been a lot higher.  They also mention in the article about how the biggest take away is Allen's struggles with the blitz, but to my eye he has looked very good against the blitz in the NFL. 

 

That is the last I'll have to say here.  I only have so much time in a day to argue with loud mouth malcontents who would rather have Josh Allen fail to prove they are right, rather than enjoy the fact that he is winning us games, which is what he did against Jacksonville. 

Good post K Gun. People too lazy to watch actual game film and have to go off something they read is crap. I never missed a home game of Allen's at UW. People too lazy to dig in and learn the real story need to take a step back. When all these people need to be eating crow, they will find some smsll way to take away from what Allen did. In a post earlier this year a poster claimed Allens passing yards weren't as good as they looked because they came off of screens and dumpoffs. Now posters are claiming he doesn't check down enough. And you never hear about how well he distributes the ball. Hitting 8 or 9 different receivers. But yet he has slow eyes, doesn't read his progressions,  locks in on receivers, or only looks at one third of the field, etc, etc, etc.

[JaCrispy]

10 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:

It makes you a hater because you can't get past it in your posts. Go back and read them. You keep poking at him every chance you get. I live in Laramie Wyoming and know exactly what he did as a player there. If you knew anything about his OC , offense , and lack of talent around him you could see past your dislike of him. Start to understand him. Big deal about some erratic throws. How about the throws that are dropped? Or the receivers that don't have enough talent to catch, get separation,  or run a clean route? I hear nothing from you about that. Or Allen moving in the pocket to avoid sacks, making the line look better than they are. He is a rookie, why are all you doubters not giving him a little slack? So don't roll up and point fingers at me, I am way more positive about the Bills as a whole than you. The only Bill I single out is Benjamin. He is lazy, entitled, and a cancer to the team.

All us “doubters” are hoping to be proven wrong, but until that happens, all we can go on are the numbers, and the numbers, so far, say he’s the worst QB in the league...couple that with his lack of production in a weak conference in college is not me being a hater, but a realist.

 

of course I want him to be great, but he hasn’t done anything at any level to make you think that will happen on a consistent basis...I’m sorry you don’t like that- I don’t either...but at this point it is a fact of life- not me being a hater.

[BB@Shooter]

Just now, JaCrispy said:

All us “doubters” are hoping to be proven wrong, but until that happens, all we can go on are the numbers, and the numbers, so far, say he’s the worst QB in the league...couple that with his lack of production in a weak conference in college is not me being a hater, but a realist.

 

of course I want him to be great, but he hasn’t done anything at any level to make you think that will happen on a consistent basis...I’m sorry you don’t like that- I don’t either...but at this point it is a fact of life- not me being a hater.

What don't you get about winning? He won in college and he is winning at this level. He is a leader, so stick the stats up your gazoo and look at the big picture. I was at his college games, you read some stats, what don't you get? You know nothing about what he had to work with in college. And you overlook what he has to work with on the Bills. If you want to stack the deck and play ignorant, keep it up as you are doing a great job. He didn't go 7th in the draft because no one wanted him. And he already looks better than Darnold and Rosen. And a bunch of people who do this for a living disagree with your poor evaluation. You are a sad excuse for a fan and even a spectator. You know very little about football but like to act like you do. So you know more than McDermott and Beane? I think not. And how were Allens numbers bad last week? Give it up, you suck at this.

[JaCrispy]

28 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:

What don't you get about winning? He won in college and he is winning at this level. He is a leader, so stick the stats up your gazoo and look at the big picture. I was at his college games, you read some stats, what don't you get? You know nothing about what he had to work with in college. And you overlook what he has to work with on the Bills. If you want to stack the deck and play ignorant, keep it up as you are doing a great job. He didn't go 7th in the draft because no one wanted him. And he already looks better than Darnold and Rosen. And a bunch of people who do this for a living disagree with your poor evaluation. You are a sad excuse for a fan and even a spectator. You know very little about football but like to act like you do. So you know more than McDermott and Beane? I think not. And how were Allens numbers bad last week? Give it up, you suck at this.

Another inaccurate pass on 3rd down...Allen is pleading my case for me- I don’t even need to say anything...receiver was wide open.

 

edit...another pass to kB not even close

Edited December 2, 2018 by JaCrispy

[BB@Shooter]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

Another inaccurate pass on 3rd down...Allen is pleading my case for me- I don’t even need to say anything...receiver was wide open.

 

edit...another pass to kB not even close

Are you goofy? And what about the pass KB dropped at the 4 yard line? And the special teams? And the line holding? Allen started out slow and has been excellent since. You are a troll, not a fan.  Whatever you do, don't look at the qb run that was called back, or the TD pass he made. Or the scrambles he made because the line sucks. And how many times he should have been tackled but shrugged it off. If special teams would hold up their end he would probably already scored again. You know very little about football and your hatred of Allen is showing up big time. You want him to do poorly. You are a big time troll who definitely isn't a fan. You are a sad little feller.

Edited December 2, 2018 by BB@Shooter