Bills QB Josh Allen is changing skeptical minds. ---- Brady Quinn apparently prefers potential over results

[Saratoga Leo]

It would be interesting if the people responding to this topic actually read the article and watched the video. Too many "The writer probably looked at the completion percentage without watching the whole game and thought he was throwing inaccurately and making poor decisions." or I didn't read the article but.....

The writer actually had high praise for Josh - ability to handle pressure, running ability including breaking tackles, arm strength.

For areas to work on here is what he wrote " But he’s not a perfect player, and I cover that in the video, too. My biggest concern with Allen are his slow eyes and accuracy. I have no idea if either will get better. While some say both can be improved significantly with reps and tweaking of fundamentals, there are others who say it’s easier said than done."

[Irv]

31 minutes ago, jimmy10 said:

 

I get it, but the taking off and running scares the hell out of me every single time. 

 

I agree.  He has to protect himself.  I see ACL tear and shoulder seperation every time he runs.  Scares me to death.  

[NickelCity]

1 hour ago, billsfan11 said:

All his negatives?

 

I didn’t read the article but I wonder what he was referring too.

 

A few throws he wanted back im sure, but overall I thought he played a very solid game

 

Agreed. "All his negatives" exist, but they were not on display. 

[Ronin]

1 hour ago, RaoulDuke79 said:

There's so many media outlets and social media hacks out there who write articles based on such small sample sizes. Over the course of the season I'm sure Allen has or will have gone from bust to legend and back again several times.

 

That's exactly right. 

 

Just like every franchise QB, Allen's success as such is going to be directly tied to his ability to run the short-medium passing game.  His rushing is great, exciting, but eventually it's going to get him killed, particularly since so many times he goes head-first and doesn't protect himself.  If the team wants him around for any length of time then they need to seriously work on that.  

 

Otherwise, there isn't nor has been a "strong-armed QB" in the modern NFL that became a franchise QB based exclusively on having a strong arm and a deep-game in the absence of the short-medium game.  So if he can't develop that, then he won't work out.  If he can, then his deep game will merely be gravy.  

 

Not team lives on the deep ball and it's a fool's game to attempt to do so.  Allen's numbers to date are all but a carbon copy of another strong-armed QB with even better collegiate credentials that we drafted, over his first 6 games.  Losman was unable to master that short-medium game.  

 

If Allen can do it, then he'll be entrenched as the QB for hopefully a decade-and-a-half.  If not, then the team will be looking for another QB in the 2020 draft again.  This past game didn't prove his naysayers incorrect, and winning a game because of a 100-yard rushing performance by your QB is an unlikely occurrence unless people seem to think that Allen's going to log 1,000+ rushing yards every season.  

 

He was 4 for 11 for 35 yards in the 2nd half.  He had two impressive pass plays that totaled 107 of his 160 passing yards.  There was absolutely nothing impressive about his passing otherwise.  Two plays a game is hardly enough to produce consistent QB play and do not a QB make.  He was 6 for 17 for 53 yards otherwise.  He'll have to start producing much better than that to cement himself as a franchise QB, much.  And in being honest, that deep play to Foster was due to fortunate slack coverage by Jax's Safety.  Great play, but let's at least be honest about what it was.  Plays like that simply don't develop like that on a regular basis.  

 

As of now, when he drops back, he seems to make one read, if that pass isn't possible he has a tendency to take off running or scrambling.  There are exceptions, but that's his current steady-state level of play.  In this last game, I watched the "every-snap" for Allen and didn't see him look to a second option once.  Unfortunately, that's not a trait that makes up the franchise QBs in the league.  Quite the opposite in fact.  

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by TaskersGhost

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Josh has had his struggles for shure.

 

He’s progressed  had some relapses and bad sacks progressed and hiccuped and progressed.   

 

I dont recall seeing many bad plays last Sunday myself.  

 

Repetition repetition repetition.   

Dabol just needs to do a good job calling plays.  

[WhickedWilliams]

1 hour ago, Irv said:

 

I agree.  He has to protect himself.  I see ACL tear and shoulder seperation every time he runs.  Scares me to death.  

? with those words!

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Yahoo Sports article 

 

Bills QB Josh Allen is changing some skeptical minds

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/bills-qb-josh-allen-changing-skeptical-minds-215422581.html

 

While all his negatives were on display in Sunday’s win, his strengths — athleticism/size and strong arm — were too, and I’ve gotta tell you … I kinda like Allen now.

This pretty much sums up where I stand. Allen was never my top choice. I recognized his talent but the downside scared me quite a bit. He is ahead of where I thought he’d be and there are moments of brilliance. He always had a chance to be special. It is just a little more likely than I thought.

[Jpsredemption]

1 hour ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

That's exactly right. 

 

Just like every franchise QB, Allen's success as such is going to be directly tied to his ability to run the short-medium passing game.  His rushing is great, exciting, but eventually it's going to get him killed, particularly since so many times he goes head-first and doesn't protect himself.  If the team wants him around for any length of time then they need to seriously work on that.  

 

Otherwise, there isn't nor has been a "strong-armed QB" in the modern NFL that became a franchise QB based exclusively on having a strong arm and a deep-game in the absence of the short-medium game.  So if he can't develop that, then he won't work out.  If he can, then his deep game will merely be gravy.  

 

Not team lives on the deep ball and it's a fool's game to attempt to do so.  Allen's numbers to date are all but a carbon copy of another strong-armed QB with even better collegiate credentials that we drafted, over his first 6 games.  Losman was unable to master that short-medium game.  

 

If Allen can do it, then he'll be entrenched as the QB for hopefully a decade-and-a-half.  If not, then the team will be looking for another QB in the 2020 draft again.  This past game didn't prove his naysayers incorrect, and winning a game because of a 100-yard rushing performance by your QB is an unlikely occurrence unless people seem to think that Allen's going to log 1,000+ rushing yards every season.  

 

He was 4 for 11 for 35 yards in the 2nd half.  He had two impressive pass plays that totaled 107 of his 160 passing yards.  There was absolutely nothing impressive about his passing otherwise.  Two plays a game is hardly enough to produce consistent QB play and do not a QB make.  He was 6 for 17 for 53 yards otherwise.  He'll have to start producing much better than that to cement himself as a franchise QB, much.  And in being honest, that deep play to Foster was due to fortunate slack coverage by Jax's Safety.  Great play, but let's at least be honest about what it was.  Plays like that simply don't develop like that on a regular basis.  

 

As of now, when he drops back, he seems to make one read, if that pass isn't possible he has a tendency to take off running or scrambling.  There are exceptions, but that's his current steady-state level of play.  In this last game, I watched the "every-snap" for Allen and didn't see him look to a second option once.  Unfortunately, that's not a trait that makes up the franchise QBs in the league.  Quite the opposite in fact.  

 

 

Oh no you told the truth..what are Allen defense attorneys to do?

[kota]

Allen's progress has been sparked by McD's direct involvment.  He said a few weeks ago that due to Allen's injury he has had more time to spend with Allen.  AKA i am teaching him defense.  

he is way more decisive with his throws.  He needs to learn some touch.  He only has to flick his wrist to match half the NFL QB's arm strength.

[BB@Shooter]

1 hour ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

That's exactly right. 

 

Just like every franchise QB, Allen's success as such is going to be directly tied to his ability to run the short-medium passing game.  His rushing is great, exciting, but eventually it's going to get him killed, particularly since so many times he goes head-first and doesn't protect himself.  If the team wants him around for any length of time then they need to seriously work on that.  

 

Otherwise, there isn't nor has been a "strong-armed QB" in the modern NFL that became a franchise QB based exclusively on having a strong arm and a deep-game in the absence of the short-medium game.  So if he can't develop that, then he won't work out.  If he can, then his deep game will merely be gravy.  

 

Not team lives on the deep ball and it's a fool's game to attempt to do so.  Allen's numbers to date are all but a carbon copy of another strong-armed QB with even better collegiate credentials that we drafted, over his first 6 games.  Losman was unable to master that short-medium game.  

 

If Allen can do it, then he'll be entrenched as the QB for hopefully a decade-and-a-half.  If not, then the team will be looking for another QB in the 2020 draft again.  This past game didn't prove his naysayers incorrect, and winning a game because of a 100-yard rushing performance by your QB is an unlikely occurrence unless people seem to think that Allen's going to log 1,000+ rushing yards every season.  

 

He was 4 for 11 for 35 yards in the 2nd half.  He had two impressive pass plays that totaled 107 of his 160 passing yards.  There was absolutely nothing impressive about his passing otherwise.  Two plays a game is hardly enough to produce consistent QB play and do not a QB make.  He was 6 for 17 for 53 yards otherwise.  He'll have to start producing much better than that to cement himself as a franchise QB, much.  And in being honest, that deep play to Foster was due to fortunate slack coverage by Jax's Safety.  Great play, but let's at least be honest about what it was.  Plays like that simply don't develop like that on a regular basis.  

 

As of now, when he drops back, he seems to make one read, if that pass isn't possible he has a tendency to take off running or scrambling.  There are exceptions, but that's his current steady-state level of play.  In this last game, I watched the "every-snap" for Allen and didn't see him look to a second option once.  Unfortunately, that's not a trait that makes up the franchise QBs in the league.  Quite the opposite in fact.  

 

 

 

If you only knew as much as you think you do. And he did go through his progressions. More knowledgeable people than you have already said it. A thing you should know, Daboll is taking a page out of Wyoming's boring ass playbook. In Allens sophomore year they threw the ball a lot as they had receivers. His last year as a Poke they lost almost all of his receivers and running backs. So they used Allen almost exactly like Daboll is using him now.

 

Try doing your homework. When your supporting cast is lame, you don't highlight them. So Allen was the leading rusher and they rode him to 8 wins even though they knew he was probably going to be a top 10 pick. As a coach you do what you have to do to win. Josh could throw 50 times a game, but with this crew it would probably be a loss. I hated and still hate Wyoming's OC, but he did what it took to win. Daboll is doing the same thing. It isn't that Josh can't pass, as he can. But Josh knows how to grind out these games and win ugly. Daboll did his homework. But wait until Josh gets his supporting cast, it will be fun times. As it was in 2016, even though Josh didn’t have a defense to keep up with his scoring. Games turned into a shootout because Wyoming couldn't contain other teams.

 

In 2017 Wyoming defense led the nation in turnover margin. They made it so Josh didn’t have to score much. So they played conservative and controlled the clock to shorten the games. The same thing Daboll is doing with Allen. You have to understand that this type of game is in Allens wheelhouse. So it is not all on Allen. I am pretty sure that is the gameplan.

[oldmanfan]

27 minutes ago, Jpsredemption said:

Oh no you told the truth..what are Allen defense attorneys to do?

Simple.  Tell you to quit trying to continually and sadly justify your preconceived notion that the kid can't play and recognize that in the just over 6games he's played that he's showing progress.

 

Instead of talking about misleading stats talk about how some incompletions were drops or throwaways when no one was open.  Recognize many of us simply are saying he's making progress and not that he's already a finished star product.  

 

And more than anything,  rather than hoping he doesn't make it so you can boast that you knew he wouldn't, actually root for him and your team to succeed.

 

That a sufficient answer to your question?

[Johnnycage46]

I still don't think completion percentage is a great measure of accuracy....its a GREAT measure of the percentage of passes thrown that were completed.  It doesn't account for throw aways, drops, receiver/QB miscommunications, etc.  I think Allen's accuracy has been fine for the most part.  He skips some or overthrows when he seems to be over excited but he doesn't appear to be as fundamentally inaccurate of a passer as many LOVED to say leading up to the draft (it was Allen's "Fitz played at Harvard").

 

It wouldn't surprise me if many pundits dont actually watch Bills games and just check box scores....8 of 19?  Traaassshhhhh

[Ronin]

2 minutes ago, Johnnycage46 said:

I still don't think completion percentage is a great measure of accuracy....its a GREAT measure of the percentage of passes thrown that were completed.  It doesn't account for throw aways, drops, receiver/QB miscommunications, etc.  I think Allen's accuracy has been fine for the most part.  He skips some or overthrows when he seems to be over excited but he doesn't appear to be as fundamentally inaccurate of a passer as many LOVED to say leading up to the draft (it was Allen's "Fitz played at Harvard").

 

It wouldn't surprise me if many pundits dont actually watch Bills games and just check box scores....8 of 19?  Traaassshhhhh

 

So 2 deep throws for 107 yards, one by a nothing WR on garbage coverage, 6 of 17 for 53 yards otherwise is a testimony to accuracy?

 

Well, ok.  If you say so.

 

He may be great down the road, but there's an enormous overreaction to this past game of his. 

 

Take away his rushing yards and there's no chance in H ell that we're even in this game, even against the Jag's pathetic offense.

 

The last time I checked franchise QB play wasn't predicated on a QB running the ball.  If it is then why'd we ditch Taylor. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, TaskersGhost said:

The last time I checked franchise QB play wasn't predicated on a QB running the ball.  If it is then why'd we ditch Taylor. 

Uh.  Cam Newton ring a bell?

Russel Wilson? 

[HappyDays]

7 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

He may be great down the road, but there's an enormous overreaction to this past game of his. 

 

Who is overreacting? Sounds like you are the one overreacting to nothing.

[Warcodered]

14 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

So 2 deep throws for 107 yards, one by a nothing WR on garbage coverage, 6 of 17 for 53 yards otherwise is a testimony to accuracy?

 

Well, ok.  If you say so.

 

He may be great down the road, but there's an enormous overreaction to this past game of his. 

 

Take away his rushing yards and there's no chance in H ell that we're even in this game, even against the Jag's pathetic offense.

 

The last time I checked franchise QB play wasn't predicated on a QB running the ball.  If it is then why'd we ditch Taylor. 

What your saying if we subtracted 100 yards from a 24-21 game it would of cost them the game...no *****.

 

Now what everyone is saying is look at the actual throws to determine if they're inaccurate don't just assume they were.

Edited November 30, 2018 by Warcodered

[CincyBillsFan]

Look you can cut the stats any way you want if you're trying to make Allen look inaccurate.  Go ahead and take away Allen's two big chunk throws but how about that perfect 40 yard strike in the 2nd half that was dropped?  Cherry picking stats works both ways!

 

And some of his incompletions were throw away's to avoid a sack.  The fact that in spite of the Jags defensive front 7 mauling our offensive line the Bills did not "give" up a sack and a lot of that had to do with Allen throwing the ball away.  It's funny how when Allen was sacked earlier in the season people yelled "why didn't he just throw the ball away".  But when he throws the ball away they complain about his inaccuracy.

 

Look it's frustrating watching a raw rookie QB develop.  But one fun thing is that you can use unconventional stats to evaluate his progress.  In this game Allen made two great throws to convert back-to-back 3rd downs.  Both were called back on penalty.  Sure I was mad at the dumb penalties but I also recognized how good the throws were so I didn't feel as bad. 

 

As for the video linked on this thread it seemed fair to me.  Allen is making progress and he has a lot to work on.  Did anyone think that wouldn't be the case at this point in the season? 

13 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

Uh.  Cam Newton ring a bell?

Russel Wilson? 

 

Agree 100%!  Newton makes running the football a big part of his game.  He regularly runs out of the read option with McCaffrey.

[Johnnycage46]

16 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

So 2 deep throws for 107 yards, one by a nothing WR on garbage coverage, 6 of 17 for 53 yards otherwise is a testimony to accuracy?

 

Well, ok.  If you say so.

 

He may be great down the road, but there's an enormous overreaction to this past game of his. 

 

Take away his rushing yards and there's no chance in H ell that we're even in this game, even against the Jag's pathetic offense.

 

The last time I checked franchise QB play wasn't predicated on a QB running the ball.  If it is then why'd we ditch Taylor. 

 

But here's the thing...you can't play the "take the such and such away". If you do that you have to reverse ALL things (penalties that negated good throws, drops, etc).

 

You mention over reaction to his last game...that's the point I am making with his "inaccuracy issues". Oberblown.

7 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

What your saying if we subtracted 100 yards from a 24-21 game it would of cost them the game...no *****.

 

Now what everyone is saying is look at the actual throws to determine if they're inaccurate don't just assume they were.

Exactly.  Good point.  Its like saying well take Brady away and the Pats suck...yes that is true lol.  But they DO have Brady and Allen did rush for those yards.

[CincyBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Who is overreacting? Sounds like you are the one overreacting to nothing.

 

I don't get how these people think.  Of course we're happy that Allen had an overall good game and showed flashes of brilliance.  None of us are saying carve his bust for the HOF but with a rookie QB as raw as Allen in which the Bills used a #7 pick we want to see him succeed?  Right? 

 

We know that Allen is likely to have a couple of rough games over these final 5 weeks.  That goes with the territory.  But games like the one against Jacksonville remind us of why the Bills took this guy as high as they did.  If it works out with Allen the Bills are back in the mix and we can expect yearly playoff runs.  If he's a bust, as some of these folks seem to be wishing for, we're back to ground zero and face another lost decade. 

[Johnnycage46]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I don't get how these people think.  Of course we're happy that Allen had an overall good game and showed flashes of brilliance.  None of us are saying carve his bust for the HOF but with a rookie QB as raw as Allen in which the Bills used a #7 pick we want to see him succeed?  Right? 

 

We know that Allen is likely to have a couple of rough games over these final 5 weeks.  That goes with the territory.  But games like the one against Jacksonville remind us of why the Bills took this guy as high as they did.  If it works out with Allen the Bills are back in the mix and we can expect yearly playoff runs.  If he's a bust, as some of these folks seem to be wishing for, we're back to ground zero and face another lost decade. 

Right.

 

It's like some fans are legit pissed that some other fans have the audacity to enjoy one sliver of an NFL season with our favorite team.  Some people just wake up mad.