Bills QB Josh Allen is changing skeptical minds. ---- Brady Quinn apparently prefers potential over results

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I have a couple versions of his information. I'll start with strictly passing stats, but also include total stats. In order of how I've got them ranked:

 

Mayfield: 7.45 YPA, 5.08% TD%, 2.82% INT%, 6.21% Sack%, 6.46 YPT, 4.49% TD%, 2.99% TO%

Darnold: 6.69 YPA, 3.81% TD%, 4.84% INT%, 7.27% Sack %, 5.49 YPT, 3.53% TD%, 4.41% TO%

Allen: 6.40 YPA, 2.62% TD%, 3.66% INT%, 12.04% Sack%, 5.28 YPT, 3.32% TD%, 2.95% TO%

Jackson: 7.01 YPA, 2.60% TD%, 3.90% INT%, 7.79% Sack%, 5.48 YPT, 3.01% TD%, 2.41% TO%

Rosen: 6.12 YPA, 3.66% TD%, 4.03% INT%, 9.52% Sack%, 4.94 YPT, 3.18% TD%, 4.14% TO%

 

So on a per pass attempt basis, Allen has been better for Yards and INTs, Rosen has been better for TDs and Sacks.

 

Hokie I’m confused.  You’ve got 2 diff TD% - ‘sup?

also what’s your criteria for ranking? 

[Buffaloflash]

On 12/2/2018 at 5:19 PM, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

 

can I get a hallelujah. wait, what the hell am I doing, I'm not a religious man.

 

 

 

Well you should be.......Just remember, the Squares today will be Round tomorrow!

[zevo]

I do find it quite interesting that all is quiet on the WGR front with all the Rosen chatter....seems to have gone by the wayside 

[jlgarsh]

On 12/2/2018 at 4:51 PM, Cheektowaga Chad said:

The only qbs that could escape and get that throw to clay, I can only think of 2 rodgers and wilson

maybe Cam too.  I think OBJ threw the besg TD pass in the league yesterday haha

10 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Mastered the short-intermediate game?   As in never misses a pass?  And your statements are facts vs. everyone else just having an opinion?  Get over yourself.  You're just another wannabe NFL coach that thinks he knows it all and doesn't.

 

Drew Brees is a master, and even he misses on some throws short. it happens sometimes, and not the end of the world

5 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Take a lap.

was that guy really holding the int right before halftime against him? that pass is almost always picked off or knocked down.  It's called a hail mary for a reason...

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

8 hours ago, Buffaloflash said:

Well you should be.......Just remember, the Squares today will be Round tomorrow!

 

no, no I shouldn't be...

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 hours ago, zevo said:

I do find it quite interesting that all is quiet on the WGR front with all the Rosen chatter....seems to have gone by the wayside 

Some people are slower than others.

 

Some  Rosen fans will never get up to speed. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Hokie I’m confused.  You’ve got 2 diff TD% - ‘sup?

also what’s your criteria for ranking? 

First TD% only considers passing TDs and Pass Attempts, second includes rushing & sacks.

I give my ratings based on 4 criteria compared against their peers. How much are they asked to do (function of attempts per game), Yards per Touch, total TD%, and Turnover %. So basically 3 efficiency stats and one to give weight to volume.

[K-9]

16 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Take a lap.

Wait, what? I haven’t read most of the thread, but did someone actually refer to a Hail Mary int as “horrendous?” Gotta be one of the dumbest takes in TBD history. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

Wait, what? I haven’t read most of the thread, but did someone actually refer to a Hail Mary int as “horrendous?” Gotta be one of the dumbest takes in TBD history. 

maybe that's a good thing    

 

 

 

today,  even 15 minutes is  way late 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

https://sports.yahoo.com/week-14-fantasy-football-streaming-160734422.html

 

Quarterbacks

Josh Allen, Bills vs. Jets

Allen has been back on the field for two games, putting up scores of 26.30 and 28.74 fantasy points in those contests. In Week 13, he was second at his position in fantasy scoring, trailing only Patrick Mahomes. Allen has been a beast on the ground, rushing for 99 and 135 yards in his last two starts. Next up for Buffalo is a home contest against the Jets, whose defense ranks 26th in aFPA to opposing signal callers. I know it may be mentally tough to put your playoff chances in the hands of Allen, but he could be the one to get you to the next week.

Edited December 4, 2018 by ShadyBillsFan

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

Am starting to think that his time on the bench with the elbow mid-season was the best thing that could've happened to him--his play seems to be markedly better overall since coming back, and having the ability/time to "process" what he needed to take away as lessons from his first couple starts, together with watching other more veteran QB's like Barkley & Anderson go through game prep seems to have made a real impact. Hopefully the same can't be said for Darnold this week.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

19 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Am starting to think that his time on the bench with the elbow mid-season was the best thing that could've happened to him--his play seems to be markedly better overall since coming back, and having the ability/time to "process" what he needed to take away as lessons from his first couple starts, together with watching other more veteran QB's like Barkley & Anderson go through game prep seems to have made a real impact. Hopefully the same can't be said for Darnold this week.  

Agreed.   

 

It's let the game sink in for him.   Slowed it down a little.  

Just don't scramble more than 5 yards behind the LOS and I'll be happier.    

[Ronin]

On 12/3/2018 at 5:42 PM, HappyDays said:

 

At no time in yesterday's game did Allen look like a late round pick.

 

From a passing perspective he sure didn't look like anything close to a top-10 pick.  He had a good rushing game yesterday, passing was horrible yesterday.  Horrible.  Mayfield, Jackson, Darnol, and Rosen all had better passing games this week, I don't hear anyone talking about Rosen, Jackson, or Darnold like they're talking about Allen.  

 

Question for you:  which do you think is more pertinent to his future as a franchise QB?  A, his passing game, or B, his rushing game?  

 

He went 18 of 36, 206 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs, 3 sacks, and a rating of 44.4  this week?  Darnold with no more talent to work with than Allen for the most part, come to Rich and posted 16 of 24 for 170, 1 TD, 1 INT, no sacks, and a rating of 83.7 against what many claim here is a #1 D.  The Jets have a horrible D.  We supposedly have a good one if yards allowed are the only measure, and despite for example that we're at or near DFL in the NFL in red zone D.  

 

But A, he's not, cannot, nor should not, run for 100 (or so, before we get hung up on the number) be the team's leading rusher.  Every fool knows that and McD has even said as much.  

 

My point all along is that if he's going to become a "franchise QB," it's NOT going to be because he can run the ball. 

 

Do you agree or disagree with that?  

 

Let me put it another way, that if he IS going to become a franchise QB, then it'll be because he's above-average in the passing game, particularly  the short-medium game.  

 

How do we know this?  Because there isn't one QB in the history of the modern NFL that is a franchise QB based upon his rushing.  Furthermore, all that a rushing QB translates to is poor planning for having a decent rushing game.  I took heat last year, in the few posts I made, suggesting that Shady was or would be near finished and that trading him prior to this season would have been wise.  Well, here we are.  Poor planning, again, in yet another form by McBeane.  The question really is, why does Allen need to run so much?  Answer, because the rushing game sucks moose balls.  Why does it suck moose balls?  I'll leave that one for you to piece together.  

 

Over the past there games he's been at 100+ rushing (back below against the Jags after a kneel-down) in each of those three games, yet, we're 1-2.   Why?  Does any of it have to do with Allen's passing game?  

 

It wasn't Allen's rushing that won games.  It was his passing, or lack thereof, that cost us games, like yesterday.  Meanwhile, Darnold, whom I have scant hopes for as being a future franchise QB, had a game-winning drive on the road.  Yeah yeah, I know, we were only in it because Allen was a one-man show, true, but no matter how you slice it, his passing game was terrible.  As I said, the reason why he is and has to run so much is because of other issues related to poor team-building and poor planning by McBeane.  There's nothing that I can do to convince you of that, you'll either realize it or you won't.  

 

I mean seriously, are you going to accept 50% passsing, 0 TDs and 2 bad INTs every week?  Are you?  If he cannot begin at least throwing more TDs than INTs are you still going to suggest that he'll be a franchise QB?  

 

Over his last three games he's 44 for 88 ( perfect 50.0%), for an average of 199 yards, 1 TD, and 1.3 INTs with a rating of in the 60s.  Isn't it his last three games (1-2) that everyone's raving about?  Seriously?  Please tell me that absolutely no one is impressed with his passing.  Factor in that we've averaged a pathetic 20 points-per-game against two of the worst defenses in the league in Miami and the Jets.  Seriously, who's impressed by this?   And both times in losses.  I know that people are impressed, buy why?  Rushing?  Seriously?  

 

And look, I agree, the rushing in isolation is indeed impressive, it's fun to watch, frankly there's not much other reason to even watch the games, but to use that as an indicator as to whether or not he'll ever become a franchise QB is absurd.  That'll never hinge upon his rushing, it'll always come back to how good of a passer he is, and right now he's not good at passing.  

 

As to Allen, as of now he's a one-read QB whose completion % (after his return from injury, so I'm leaving out his worst games) is a perfect 50%, worse than Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, and Mayfield, and that includes those players' entire seasons, so frankly, it's not even an apples-to-apples comparison in Allen's favor.  

 

I have no idea why anyone is arguing this point.  If Allen does not move on from being a 50% completion passer that can pitch on a pace for more than 16 TDs/20 INTs season, for a below 7 YPA (post injury), sorry, but he's not going to become a franchise QB, I don't care if he does run for 1,000 yards/season.  And frankly, I'll be not only surprised, but shocked if he makes it three more years running like that w/o sustaining a very serious injury.  Anyone that can't see that simply doesn't know football.  He got beat up yesterday as it was and there were at least a couple of instances where he could have been seriously hurt.  

 

Otherwise, he ranks worse than Darnold (who just outplayed him, on the road, against a better D, and whose team is not better than Allen's), Rosen (whose team one of the few that is arguably worse than Allen's), Jackson's (also whose team is not notably better), and Mayfield (whose team was 0-16 last season) in just about every relevant statistical indicator out there.  

 

I'll leave out yards because he's been hurt, but he's worse in YPA, rating, Compl. %, TD/INT, and sack % (despite his mobility), and his short-medium pass numbers are bottom-dwelling.  

 

If that doesn't improve, do you expect him to continue to be our franchise QB?  I don't.  WAY too much is being made of his mobility and rushing, which will be short-lived if it continues, I'd put big money on it.  Sorry, but there's not nor ever has been a QB in the modern era that has had such numbers that became a franchise QB, so those WILL HAVE TO IMPROVE if he's to become one.  His rushing isn't going to matter.  It's great for a dual threat, but if it's not part of a DUAL threat, then it's all but irrelevant in the modern NFL. 

 

And by the way, here's something else to chew on, his sack rate is currently one sack every 9.7 attempts, which is horrid.  To add some perspective, Mayfield's sack rate is one sack every 17.3;  Darnold's is 15.9;  Rosen's is 11.8; Jackson's is 11.1.   I mean has anyone even looked at this?  That's Bledsoe-esque.  Actually it's even worse, Bledsoe's career was 15.4.  And frankly, the last threer games against Jax, Miami, and the Jets, which rank 28th, 31st, and 25th in generating sacks, actually pushed that rate up significantly.  

 

What it suggests, and confirms amidst other data, is that Allen struggle to read defenses.  Again, name one QB that can't read Ds with the best of them that is a franchise QB.  There aren't any.  

 

[Disclaimer:  there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING  in the above post that suggests whether or not he'll improve!  It's purely an analysis as to where he is now .  I have absolutely no idea whether he'll improve and if you're honest you'll say the same thing.]  

Edited December 11, 2018 by TaskersGhost

[John from Riverside]

41 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

From a passing perspective he sure didn't look like anything close to a top-10 pick.  He had a good rushing game yesterday, passing was horrible yesterday.  Horrible.  Mayfield, Jackson, Darnol, and Rosen all had better passing games this week, I don't hear anyone talking about Rosen, Jackson, or Darnold like they're talking about Allen.  

 

Question for you:  which do you think is more pertinent to his future as a franchise QB?  A, his passing game, or B, his rushing game?  

 

He went 18 of 36, 206 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs, 3 sacks, and a rating of 44.4  this week?  Darnold with no more talent to work with than Allen for the most part, come to Rich and posted 16 of 24 for 170, 1 TD, 1 INT, no sacks, and a rating of 83.7 against what many claim here is a #1 D.  The Jets have a horrible D.  We supposedly have a good one if yards allowed are the only measure, and despite for example that we're at or near DFL in the NFL in red zone D.  

 

But A, he's not, cannot, nor should not, run for 100 (or so, before we get hung up on the number) be the team's leading rusher.  Every fool knows that and McD has even said as much.  

 

My point all along is that if he's going to become a "franchise QB," it's NOT going to be because he can run the ball. 

 

Do you agree or disagree with that?  

 

Let me put it another way, that if he IS going to become a franchise QB, then it'll be because he's above-average in the passing game, particularly  the short-medium game.  

 

How do we know this?  Because there isn't one QB in the history of the modern NFL that is a franchise QB based upon his rushing.  Furthermore, all that a rushing QB translates to is poor planning for having a decent rushing game.  I took heat last year, in the few posts I made, suggesting that Shady was or would be near finished and that trading him prior to this season would have been wise.  Well, here we are.  Poor planning, again, in yet another form by McBeane.  The question really is, why does Allen need to run so much?  Answer, because the rushing game sucks moose balls.  Why does it suck moose balls?  I'll leave that one for you to piece together.  

 

Over the past there games he's been at 100+ rushing (back below against the Jags after a kneel-down) in each of those three games, yet, we're 1-2.   Why?  Does any of it have to do with Allen's passing game?  

 

It wasn't Allen's rushing that won games.  It was his passing, or lack thereof, that cost us games, like yesterday.  Meanwhile, Darnold, whom I have scant hopes for as being a future franchise QB, had a game-winning drive on the road.  Yeah yeah, I know, we were only in it because Allen was a one-man show, true, but no matter how you slice it, his passing game was terrible.  As I said, the reason why he is and has to run so much is because of other issues related to poor team-building and poor planning by McBeane.  There's nothing that I can do to convince you of that, you'll either realize it or you won't.  

 

I mean seriously, are you going to accept 50% passsing, 0 TDs and 2 bad INTs every week?  Are you?  If he cannot begin at least throwing more TDs than INTs are you still going to suggest that he'll be a franchise QB?  

 

Over his last three games he's 44 for 88 ( perfect 50.0%), for an average of 199 yards, 1 TD, and 1.3 INTs with a rating of in the 60s.  Isn't it his last three games (1-2) that everyone's raving about?  Seriously?  Please tell me that absolutely no one is impressed with his passing.  Factor in that we've averaged a pathetic 20 points-per-game against two of the worst defenses in the league in Miami and the Jets.  Seriously, who's impressed by this?   And both times in losses.  I know that people are impressed, buy why?  Rushing?  Seriously?  

 

And look, I agree, the rushing in isolation is indeed impressive, it's fun to watch, frankly there's not much other reason to even watch the games, but to use that as an indicator as to whether or not he'll ever become a franchise QB is absurd.  That'll never hinge upon his rushing, it'll always come back to how good of a passer he is, and right now he's not good at passing.  

 

As to Allen, as of now he's a one-read QB whose completion % (after his return from injury, so I'm leaving out his worst games) is a perfect 50%, worse than Rosen, Darnold, Jackson, and Mayfield, and that includes those players' entire seasons, so frankly, it's not even an apples-to-apples comparison in Allen's favor.  

 

I have no idea why anyone is arguing this point.  If Allen does not move on from being a 50% completion passer that can pitch on a pace for more than 16 TDs/20 INTs season, for a below 7 YPA (post injury), sorry, but he's not going to become a franchise QB, I don't care if he does run for 1,000 yards/season.  And frankly, I'll be not only surprised, but shocked if he makes it three more years running like that w/o sustaining a very serious injury.  Anyone that can't see that simply doesn't know football.  He got beat up yesterday as it was and there were at least a couple of instances where he could have been seriously hurt.  

 

Otherwise, he ranks worse than Darnold (who just outplayed him, on the road, against a better D, and whose team is not better than Allen's), Rosen (whose team one of the few that is arguably worse than Allen's), Jackson's (also whose team is not notably better), and Mayfield (whose team was 0-16 last season) in just about every relevant statistical indicator out there.  

 

I'll leave out yards because he's been hurt, but he's worse in YPA, rating, Compl. %, TD/INT, and sack % (despite his mobility), and his short-medium pass numbers are bottom-dwelling.  

 

If that doesn't improve, do you expect him to continue to be our franchise QB?  I don't.  WAY too much is being made of his mobility and rushing, which will be short-lived if it continues, I'd put big money on it.  Sorry, but there's not nor ever has been a QB in the modern era that has had such numbers that became a franchise QB, so those WILL HAVE TO IMPROVE if he's to become one.  His rushing isn't going to matter.  It's great for a dual threat, but if it's not part of a DUAL threat, then it's all but irrelevant in the modern NFL. 

 

And by the way, here's something else to chew on, his sack rate is currently one sack every 9.7 attempts, which is horrid.  To add some perspective, Mayfield's sack rate is one sack every 17.3;  Darnold's is 15.9;  Rosen's is 11.8; Jackson's is 11.1.   I mean has anyone even looked at this?  That's Bledsoe-esque.  Actually it's even worse, Bledsoe's career was 15.4.  And frankly, the last threer games against Jax, Miami, and the Jets, which rank 28th, 31st, and 25th in generating sacks, actually pushed that rate up significantly.  

 

What it suggests, and confirms amidst other data, is that Allen struggle to read defenses.  Again, name one QB that can't read Ds with the best of them that is a franchise QB.  There aren't any.  

 

[Disclaimer:  there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING  in the above post that suggests whether or not he'll improve!  It's purely an analysis as to where he is now .  I have absolutely no idea whether he'll improve and if you're honest you'll say the same thing.]  

I get so tired of the mis information you post on these boards hoping it will go unchallenged below are the stats for this past week for the TWO quarterbacks drafted about Josh Allen in the top 10.   Mayfield had 3 picks the week before.....Sam threw a pick......neither of them had the offensive output.....and passing wise Josh throws for over 200 yards which puts him right in the middle of the 3 QBs::

 

Sam Darnold	16/24	170	1	1
Baker Mayfield	18/22	238	1

[Ronin]

19 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I get so tired of the mis information you post on these boards hoping it will go unchallenged below are the stats for this past week for the TWO quarterbacks drafted about Josh Allen in the top 10.   Mayfield had 3 picks the week before.....Sam threw a pick......neither of them had the offensive output.....and passing wise Josh throws for over 200 yards which puts him right in the middle of the 3 QBs::

 

Sam Darnold	16/24	170	1	1
Baker Mayfield	18/22	238	1

 

LOL 

 

OK genius, and 18 of 36 for 206 yards, a 44.4 rating, 0 TDs and 2 INTs is better than the above?  

 

Is it possible for anyone to be that dense?  

 

You know John, you seem to have it so out for me that no matter what I post, you obviously don't read it all and if you do you're just skimming it w/o understanding what it  actually says to the extent that you make statements like the above.  

 

Funny tho, you're the poster-boy in that way for the average forum, which is precisely why people that don't attempt to sum-up players, teams, and units in one-sentence sound-bites don't post much.  

 

Honestly John!  

 

And please, you're like a dog grabbing onto my pant leg, move on please.  Perhaps go get some counseling and anger-management psychiatric help that you seemingly desperately need.  

 

Only in your world is 82% and 67% worse than 50%, or 1 TD worse than 0 TDs, or 0 or 1 INTs worse than 2 INTs.  

LMAO  

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

LOL 

 

OK genius, and 18 of 36 for 206 yards, a 44.4 rating, 0 TDs and 2 INTs is better than the above?  

 

Is it possible for anyone to be that dense?  

 

You know John, you seem to have it so out for me that no matter what I post, you obviously don't read it all and if you do you're just skimming it w/o understanding what it  actually says to the extent that you make statements like the above.  

 

Funny tho, you're the poster-boy in that way for the average forum, which is precisely why people that don't attempt to sum-up players, teams, and units in one-sentence sound-bites don't post much.  

 

Honestly John!  

 

And please, you're like a dog grabbing onto my pant leg, move on please.  Perhaps go get some counseling and anger-management psychiatric help that you seemingly desperately need.  

 

Only in your world is 82% and 67% worse than 50%, or 1 TD worse than 0 TDs, or 0 or 1 INTs worse than 2 INTs.  

LMAO  

Your posts are a joke.....and you get shown this again and again....perhaps it is time for YOU to move on

[Ronin]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

Your posts are a joke.....and you get shown this again and again....perhaps it is time for YOU to move on

 

LOL 

 

Oh, OK John, if you say so. 

 

Fortunately for you, I don't live here like you do.  I only post occasionally when I get bored.  

 

And for what it's worth, I'm sorry that you struggle with elementary school math and and that you don't care for facts, because most of my post was simply that, facts.  I realize that doesn't go over well in your egotistical opinions-uber-alles world.  

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

LOL 

 

Oh, OK John, if you say so. 

 

Fortunately for you, I don't live here like you do.  I only post occasionally when I get bored.  

 

And for what it's worth, I'm sorry that you struggle with elementary school math and and that you don't care for facts, because most of my post was simply that, facts.  I realize that doesn't go over well in your egotistical opinions-uber-alles world.  

Im sorry you have to cherry pick stats to support your agendas and cannot take into account the whole picture when it comes to QB position......

 

Get bored less.....the board is a better place when you are not bored