Bills QB Josh Allen is changing skeptical minds. ---- Brady Quinn apparently prefers potential over results

[PIZ]

15 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Looking back on it, the elbow injury may have been a blessing in disguise. We’ll never know, but to me it felt a little like things were spiraling out of control, but the time off allowed him to regroup, and the game has slowed down just a bit. Regardless, yesterday was fun to watch and I found it very encouraging. Long, long way to go.....but encouraging. 

 

Yesterday was awesome!  Obviously no playoffs this year, but I can't wait to see them play again next week.

 

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

So we're boiling down how good QBs are based upon any random game then?  Is that it?  

 

Just checking.  If so, let me know.  We'll go week by week then.  

Considering that these are rookies with a necessarily small sample size, isn’t that by definition all we can do? As well as identifying patterns limited to 2/3 of a season? 

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

What excuse did I reach for and what am I ignoring? 

You didn't. It is his go to schtick. He loves to spout off inane opinions with no factual basis and, then, accuse others of ignoring the facts.

[Juice_32]

1 minute ago, PIZ said:

 

Yesterday was awesome!  Obviously no playoffs this year, but I can't wait to see them play again next week.

 

 

 

And that is really what it's about. Some people are so worried about proving their pre-draft assessments correct that they miss out on the real fun.

 

For all the back and forth in this thread I'll state one fact. No one knows what the kid is going to be as a finished product, but I do know, as of now, I'm excited to watch.

[thebandit27]

16 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

It tells me that you're reaching for an excuse and ignoring facts.  Everything must be factored in, but then since Darnold and Rosen are both posting better numbers in the passing game, are you ready to annoint them as good as Allen?  

 

 

14 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

So we're boiling down how good QBs are based upon any random game then?  Is that it?  

 

Just checking.  If so, let me know.  We'll go week by week then.  

 

Let's have some fun here...here are the passing stats for all 3:

 

QB1 - 9 games, 159/289 (55%), 1,934 yards (6.7 YPA), 11 TDs, 14 INTs, 68.3 passer rating

QB2 - 8 games, 101/191 (52.3%), 1,223 yards (6.4 YPA), 5 TDs, 7 INTs, 66.3 passer rating

QB3 - 8 games, 148/273 (54.2%), 1,670 yards (6.1 YPA), 10 TDs, 11 INTs, 68.2 passer rating

 

Without looking, can you determine who is who?

 

Ball's in your court to try to twist the quote that I bolded into some kind of convincing argument.

[BuffaloHokie13]

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Let's compare them play-by-play instead.

 

If you want to hang your hat on this idea that Rosen has been a superior passer, well, I'll be waiting.

I have a couple versions of his information. I'll start with strictly passing stats, but also include total stats. In order of how I've got them ranked:

 

Mayfield: 7.45 YPA, 5.08% TD%, 2.82% INT%, 6.21% Sack%, 6.46 YPT, 4.49% TD%, 2.99% TO%

Darnold: 6.69 YPA, 3.81% TD%, 4.84% INT%, 7.27% Sack %, 5.49 YPT, 3.53% TD%, 4.41% TO%

Allen: 6.40 YPA, 2.62% TD%, 3.66% INT%, 12.04% Sack%, 5.28 YPT, 3.32% TD%, 2.95% TO%

Jackson: 7.01 YPA, 2.60% TD%, 3.90% INT%, 7.79% Sack%, 5.48 YPT, 3.01% TD%, 2.41% TO%

Rosen: 6.12 YPA, 3.66% TD%, 4.03% INT%, 9.52% Sack%, 4.94 YPT, 3.18% TD%, 4.14% TO%

 

So on a per pass attempt basis, Allen has been better for Yards and INTs, Rosen has been better for TDs and Sacks.

[John from Riverside]

19 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Gotta love Rosen's 11/26, 149 yards and 0 TD performance yesterday...now that's what I call operating at high efficiency!

I have no idea how these QBs are all going to shake out

 

I just know that it is not going how ppl predicted at the beginning of the season....Josh Rosen was supposed to be the most "pro ready" of all these QBs....Josh Allen was supposed to be the most "Raw"

 

In a common sense way.....that would spell bad news for Rosen because Josh Allen's ceiling is so much higher (and Josen is working with better offensive talent)

 

I dont have a axe to grind with any of them......but i am at this point very happen that Josh Allen is the player we took

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

 

Let's have some fun here...here are the passing stats for all 3:

 

QB1 - 9 games, 159/289 (55%), 1,934 yards (6.7 YPA), 11 TDs, 14 INTs, 68.3 passer rating

QB2 - 8 games, 101/191 (52.3%), 1,223 yards (6.4 YPA), 5 TDs, 7 INTs, 66.3 passer rating

QB3 - 8 games, 148/273 (54.2%), 1,670 yards (6.1 YPA), 10 TDs, 11 INTs, 68.2 passer rating

 

Without looking, can you determine who is who?

 

Ball's in your court to try to twist the quote that I bolded into some kind of convincing argument.

 

4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I have a couple versions of his information. I'll start with strictly passing stats, but also include total stats. In order of how I've got them ranked:

 

Mayfield: 7.45 YPA, 5.08% TD%, 2.82% INT%, 6.21% Sack%, 6.46 YPT, 4.49% TD%, 2.99% TO%

Darnold: 6.69 YPA, 3.81% TD%, 4.84% INT%, 7.27% Sack %, 5.49 YPT, 3.53% TD%, 4.41% TO%

Allen: 6.40 YPA, 2.62% TD%, 3.66% INT%, 12.04% Sack%, 5.28 YPT, 3.32% TD%, 2.95% TO%

Jackson: 7.01 YPA, 2.60% TD%, 3.90% INT%, 7.79% Sack%, 5.48 YPT, 3.01% TD%, 2.41% TO%

Rosen: 6.12 YPA, 3.66% TD%, 4.03% INT%, 9.52% Sack%, 4.94 YPT, 3.18% TD%, 4.14% TO%

 

So on a per pass attempt basis, Allen has been better for Yards and INTs, Rosen has been better for TDs and Sacks.

 

Thanks for ruining the game!

[Nihilarian]

Love the kid... and his burning desire to win. Basically a one man team with one good lineman, one decent receiver. What an exciting game. 

 

My favorite part of that Dolphins game was watching Allen (6'5'' 240lbs) literally run away from Kiko time and time again. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

Thanks for ruining the game!

It's my specialty!

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

47 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

Love the kid... and his burning desire to win. Basically a one man team with one good lineman, one decent receiver. What an exciting game. 

 

My favorite part of that Dolphins game was watching Allen (6'5'' 240lbs) literally run away from Kiko time and time again. 

 

...so does this mean perhaps we did not take the "wrong Josh"?......what the hell do I do now with my TBD pundit inspired "Wrong Josh-Fire McBeane-Fire McDermott" laminated album??.....have I been mislead?..............

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

So on a per pass attempt basis, Allen has been better for Yards and INTs, Rosen has been better for TDs and Sacks.

I was looking up Josh Allen and the numerous records he was breaking as an NFL and Bills rookie and one of those was JA was on pace to breaking the sack record.   

 

I think hes diminished that somewhat 

1 hour ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

It's my specialty!

Yes, yes it is.   

[Jerome007]

I can't believe this late in the season some of you guys want to argue YOUR pick would have Rosen or X Y Z. You know you can't change the past, right? And Allen is the Bills QB. Our guy, the leader. The young buck any Bills fan sure hopes becomes THE elite QB the fans and team have been hoping for. I can understand criticism but this is ridiculous. Are you fan or you want to show how y u'd be a better GM than Beane to stroke your ego? 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Jerome007

[HappyDays]

4 hours ago, TaskersGhost said:

The critique of Allen by a Football Outsiders guy said it best about Allen's passing game, he said; 

 

"The conundrum with Allen is that these flashes -- the moments of pure brilliance -- come so few and far between. Allen dazzles once or twice a game with a play that feels impossible, only to look like a late-round pick for the remainder of his appearance."

 

That's exactly how that game went.  This past game was much better and his best of the season easily, IMO anyway, despite having had 2 INTs, both pretty much his fault.  

 

At no time in yesterday's game did Allen look like a late round pick.

[John from Riverside]

On 11/30/2018 at 12:51 PM, BillsEnthusiast said:

 

We've addressed :16 as a bit behind the receiver although it was good coverage. 

 

Come on, 1:44 is nitpicking. Every QB throws a ball out of bounds like that literally every week. 

 

2:42 shows why it's hard to take you seriously. There is nothing wrong with that throw. That was a good play by the defender to knock it out after it was caught at first. 

 

2:51: what? I thought it was fine. It's a screen to McKenzie which he turned upfield. 

 

I agree on 3:30 although Ramsey was closing in on him. He is working on these throws. 

 

3:57: That's a throwaway. Come on. Take off the crusade helmet. 

 

I can agree with 4:04. 

 

All in all, your anti-Allen crusade is tiresome and telling people to go cry in their pillow because of it is just sad. 

Thanks for responding to this and doing the work....

 

I just didnt have the time to even bother with this fool

[GoBills808]

3 hours ago, TaskersGhost said:

 

He also had two horrendous INTs yesterday that were both his fault.   

 

Take a lap.

[HappyDays]

3 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:

I have a couple versions of his information. I'll start with strictly passing stats, but also include total stats. In order of how I've got them ranked:

 

Mayfield: 7.45 YPA, 5.08% TD%, 2.82% INT%, 6.21% Sack%, 6.46 YPT, 4.49% TD%, 2.99% TO%

Darnold: 6.69 YPA, 3.81% TD%, 4.84% INT%, 7.27% Sack %, 5.49 YPT, 3.53% TD%, 4.41% TO%

Allen: 6.40 YPA, 2.62% TD%, 3.66% INT%, 12.04% Sack%, 5.28 YPT, 3.32% TD%, 2.95% TO%

Jackson: 7.01 YPA, 2.60% TD%, 3.90% INT%, 7.79% Sack%, 5.48 YPT, 3.01% TD%, 2.41% TO%

Rosen: 6.12 YPA, 3.66% TD%, 4.03% INT%, 9.52% Sack%, 4.94 YPT, 3.18% TD%, 4.14% TO%

 

So on a per pass attempt basis, Allen has been better for Yards and INTs, Rosen has been better for TDs and Sacks.

 

I don't even care about their full season stats. I'm more interested in how they progress. Rosen is exactly where he started, Darnold was trending way down before his injury, Mayfield was trending up before this week, and Allen has been trending up. Still a lot of football left to be played though.

[Dr. K]

I admit I was one of the skeptics when the Bills drafted Allen, but I'm getting sick of all the harping on Allen's accuracy. 

 

Aikman and this guy question whether Allen  can "throw the ball where he wants to throw it." 

 

Well, Allen can throw it where he wants to throw it, with pinpoint accuracy, on a wide variety of throws. Anyone who watches him will see many examples of this in this game, or the earlier one, even going back to pre-season. He's getting better at making decisions and putting the ball where he wants it. Looking at the trend curve, I think this is only going to improve.  

 

I expect there will still be mistakes and miscommunications and bad days, but I am really coming around to see Allen as a bright hope for the future of this team.

[Johnnycage46]

11 hours ago, Dr. K said:

I admit I was one of the skeptics when the Bills drafted Allen, but I'm getting sick of all the harping on Allen's accuracy. 

 

Aikman and this guy question whether Allen  can "throw the ball where he wants to throw it." 

 

Well, Allen can throw it where he wants to throw it, with pinpoint accuracy, on a wide variety of throws. Anyone who watches him will see many examples of this in this game, or the earlier one, even going back to pre-season. He's getting better at making decisions and putting the ball where he wants it. Looking at the trend curve, I think this is only going to improve.  

 

I expect there will still be mistakes and miscommunications and bad days, but I am really coming around to see Allen as a bright hope for the future of this team.

That's the problem with people using completion percentage as the only, or best measure of accuracy.

Edited December 4, 2018 by Johnnycage46

[Mikie2times]

54 minutes ago, Dr. K said:

I admit I was one of the skeptics when the Bills drafted Allen, but I'm getting sick of all the harping on Allen's accuracy. 

 

Aikman and this guy question whether Allen  can "throw the ball where he wants to throw it." 

 

Well, Allen can throw it where he wants to throw it, with pinpoint accuracy, on a wide variety of throws. Anyone who watches him will see many examples of this in this game, or the earlier one, even going back to pre-season. He's getting better at making decisions and putting the ball where he wants it. Looking at the trend curve, I think this is only going to improve.  

 

I expect there will still be mistakes and miscommunications and bad days, but I am really coming around to see Allen as a bright hope for the future of this team.

He’s profiling like I expected if the glass was half full. Progressing like I would have liked. When he isn’t thinking as much and has a rhythm in his drop (playaction) the guy is an absolute monster. You have to/hope/Billieve, in due time that Natural PA cadence he has translates to normal drop backs. What’s funny about any Allen ridicule is out of every first year example in the recent era of a future Franchise QB’s you didn’t know it year one. Maybe Russell Wilson or Cam are the closest I can think of and like Allen, both used the run game a lot those first few years until things slowed down more.

Edited December 4, 2018 by KzooMike