CLTbills Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 27 minutes ago, Mark80 said: I hope we go the renovation route. Keep the tailgating atmosphere we have out in the 'burbs which may be tough to do downtown. Plus, I don't think this area could support an expensive new stadium and the seat licensing, increased ticket prices, and necessary corporate buy-in (suites and such) required to make it successful. Sure, a new stadium would be cool, but we need to be realistic. And our current stadium makes us unique in the league (well, Green Bay too), nostalgic for visitors. Agree 10000000% percent. I live in the Charlotte, NC area, where the stadium is right smack in the middle of downtown. The "tailgating" experience there is almost non-existent.
May Day 10 Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 IMO, we have a very cool and unique thing going. It really "Popped" on the MNF game on TV. Hopefully we can preserve that to some degree 2
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) PSL's are not going to fly here - so renovations might be the best option. You could charge a 1 time fee to all season ticket holders and a higher fee for new ticket buyers. Even a hundred bucks a seat (which is much lower than it would likely be) would get you more than 5 million dollars, and then at least you're taxing the people who actually use the stadium. Non-renovations will cost at least half a billion - maybe more? I don't think we'd be going minnesota/LA/SF state of the art. Look more at something like Arizona's dome, or Ford Field. They're able to do college bowl games, as well as NCAA final four. Maybe throw in a large concert tour, or a big 4 WWE event like Royal Rumble. We're not spending a billion, and we're not getting a super bowl so its going to be hard to scrounge up that much taxpayer cash. Edited November 27, 2018 by dneveu
May Day 10 Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, dneveu said: PSL's are not going to fly here - so renovations might be the best option. You could charge a 1 time fee to all season ticket holders and a higher fee for new ticket buyers. Even a hundred bucks a seat (which is much lower than it would likely be) would get you more than 5 million dollars, and then at least you're taxing the people who actually use the stadium. Non-renovations will cost at least half a billion - maybe more? I don't think we'd be going minnesota/LA/SF state of the art. Look more at something like Arizona's dome, or Ford Field. They're able to do college bowl games, as well as NCAA final four. Maybe throw in a large concert tour, or a big 4 WWE event like Royal Rumble. We're not spending a billion, and we're not getting a super bowl so its going to be hard to scrounge up that much taxpayer cash. I think your new stadium estimate is very low.... and downtown will probably be north of $1.5 Billion + when all is included with infrastructure, engineering, and land acquisition.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, May Day 10 said: I think your new stadium estimate is very low.... and downtown will probably be north of $1.5 Billion + when all is included with infrastructure, engineering, and land acquisition. Then i would assume that is out imo. 1.5 billion in this area is absurd. Who's payin for it? Anything downtown is going to need to remove the skyway too. Conway park area would make a lot of sense since there's a lot of empty buildings and space, but where do the cars go? Even ripping out the perry projects/towers wouldn't create enough parking, and you have to find places to put displaced residents. It's also going to be like useless to have massive parking lots there 90% of the time. Not to mention - How do you get in and out? Logistical nightmare - you either have to build foot bridges from like riverworks ($$$ these would need to be tall enough for boats to still get through) - how do you get to route 5/190/33 from there? How are you directing traffic? Edited November 27, 2018 by dneveu
May Day 10 Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, dneveu said: Then i would assume that is out imo. 1.5 billion in this area is absurd. Who's payin for it? Anything downtown is going to need to remove the skyway too. Conway park area would make a lot of sense since there's a lot of empty buildings and space, but where do the cars go? Even ripping out the perry projects/towers wouldn't create enough parking, and you have to find places to put displaced residents. It's also going to be like useless to have massive parking lots there 90% of the time. Not to mention - How do you get in and out? Logistical nightmare - you either have to build foot bridges from like riverworks ($$$ these would need to be tall enough for boats to still get through). That's what I mean, and you get it. It wont be easy, and I suspect the Pegulas have done some research as well and the sails have been taken out of the wind on downtown a bit. This study may dig deeper. Then they will need to look at the delta between revenue and additional cost. I think it is negligible to be honest. You would also need a lot of charity from Buffalo, Erie County, and NYS... as well as personal investment. As it is now, the traffic even after a Sabres game is awful. Couldnt imagine getting to and from a Bills game with 4x as many people, others in bars.... and also the possibility of an event happening at the same time at Key Bank Center My rough estimate based on staying at a holiday inn express is: Downtown: $1.7 Billion Adjacent to New Era Field: $750-$800 Million Full Renovation of New Era Field $600 Million IMO, they will build adjacent. A new build provides many more options and freedom and doesnt have to be stuck 40% under ground. You would also possibly need to play a season of games at UB, Toronto, Hamilton, or Syracuse Edited November 27, 2018 by May Day 10
zevo Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) I would prefer to build where it is now or renovate the hellout of the current stadium....downtown is a nice idea tied with possibly a new arena for the Sabres but the infrastructure would be a huge hurdle Edited November 27, 2018 by zevo
jimmy10 Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 I like the idea of a major renovation, but where the hell do we play in the interim? I don’t think a major reno can get done in one offseason, can it?
chris heff Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Mark80 said: I hope we go the renovation route. Keep the tailgating atmosphere we have out in the 'burbs which may be tough to do downtown. Plus, I don't think this area could support an expensive new stadium and the seat licensing, increased ticket prices, and necessary corporate buy-in (suites and such) required to make it successful. Sure, a new stadium would be cool, but we need to be realistic. And our current stadium makes us unique in the league (well, Green Bay too), nostalgic for visitors. I think your second sentence is exactly why they will build downtown. All of these new stadiums are designed to get you in the building. There is zero revenue in tailgating. What Atlanta did was smart, make food and drink cheap, a small profit is better than none.
dollars 2 donuts Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, corta765 said: Most studies agree with this and basically state it has to be incredibly well planned out to have a shot to give the taxpayers a payback. That is IF they do a new stadium its gotta be indoors because the study in 2014 by NYS said it basically doubles your usage from 20-30 events to 50-70. I still believe the stadium is going into a master project downtown with both arena's and the development they have which can work and not completely screw tax payers given the amount of activity. But yea a new outdoor stadium just seems foolish and were better off renovating for real. Corta, don't think that I forgot about you. You wrote that excellent and lengthy educational post on this subject last year that had me changing my mind a bit on the stadium. I will add to my comments above based upon your comments and which may be a step back for me, that as long as it makes common sense and not just NFL football sense, then I am in. Edited November 27, 2018 by dollars 2 donuts 1 1
DCOrange Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 1 hour ago, dollars 2 donuts said: Man, how my mind has changed on this over the years. I don't believe any team needs these cathedral stadiums. If you want them and can afford them, great. Otherwise, just a nice venue to watch a game is good enough. Why? Because I think only so much money can be made from the stadiums over an 8-10 week home schedule, as opposed to what they cost to put up. However, and most importantly, the very best place to watch any game, especially football, is on TV. As a matter of factor others have commented that football, given all the cameras and coverage, may be the best television sport. Sure, make sure the stadiums are filled, but squeeze out all the money you can NFL from your other sources of income and come back down to Earth on the stadiums. I am not just talking about the Bills, but every NFL city, unless you want these costly homes so badly. ...I just don't think that they should be the standard of what every NFL team should have. I actually think football is the worst sport to watch on TV in terms of actually watching the game. I prefer football over baseball or hockey for example, so I'd rather watch football, but if for example we're talking about a person that enjoys every sport equally, I think football is the worst because of the fact that the TV angle is so brutal. You can never see where a pass is intended to go or anything. It blows my mind that in today's age we're still stuck with the same awful TV angle for football; no other sport strips you of the ability to see the field when you're watching a game the way that football does.
Cheektowaga Chad Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) The biggest issue with a downtown Stadium is mainly the sky way. Its in the way and would be a nightmare getting to and from downtown for a football game with 80k fans Looking at a map it seems currently key bank center is the pegulas "home base" with the arena harbor center 716 the hotels and now the labatt house expanding its reach Again just looking at a map what is pegulas connection to the bisons? Do they have one? Do NFL teams share fields any more? What about the buffalo news? This would be where id be looking to expand. My prediction is the Stadium stays in orchard park and the sabres arena is built next to the current location Edited November 27, 2018 by Cheektowaga Chad
dollars 2 donuts Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 Just now, DCOrange said: I actually think football is the worst sport to watch on TV in terms of actually watching the game. I prefer football over baseball or hockey for example, so I'd rather watch football, but if for example we're talking about a person that enjoys every sport equally, I think football is the worst because of the fact that the TV angle is so brutal. You can never see where a pass is intended to go or anything. It blows my mind that in today's age we're still stuck with the same awful TV angle for football; no other sport strips you of the ability to see the field when you're watching a game the way that football does. DC the number of angles are almost immeasurable compared to the other sports. During the major games you actually have cameras on the he field and above the players. The green of the field, with the player speed, and actually action on the field trumps the other sports, just in my opinion. Side note, the sport I think that most benefited from HD? Hockey. In HD you can actually see the black in the ice and you can follow the puck better than ever. hockey was terrible in SD.
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 Well at least it’s not a feasibility study of a Toronto venue just yet ? 1
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Like A Mofo said: Translation: Tax payers, prepare for bend over! ....too late to the party....Guido "The Billion" Cuomo gave it all to Amazon............... 1
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 15 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said: Corta, don't think that I forgot about you. You wrote that excellent and lengthy educational post on this subject last year that had me changing my mind a bit on the stadium. I will add to my comments above based upon your comments and which may be a step back for me, that as long as it makes common sense and not just NFL football sense, then I am in. As much as I hate the idea of playing the Fish indoors in December, overall I’m also coming around to the notion that indoors is the way to go in order to maximize ROI throughout the whole year and bring in other events including possibly the SB which the NFL seems to award all new stadium projects these days? But that wouldn’t be the sole reason to do it that way, just a contributing one. Fan experience would be another. 1
DCOrange Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, dollars 2 donuts said: DC the number of angles are almost immeasurable compared to the other sports. During the major games you actually have cameras on the he field and above the players. The green of the field, with the player speed, and actually action on the field trumps the other sports, just in my opinion. Side note, the sport I think that most benefited from HD? Hockey. In HD you can actually see the black in the ice and you can follow the puck better than ever. hockey was terrible in SD. The different angles would be great if they actually used them for more than just replays. A view in which you can actually see the play developing would make it so much more enjoyable IMO. Like I said, no other sport is similar to the way that football prevents you from seeing where a play is going. 2
dollars 2 donuts Posted November 27, 2018 Posted November 27, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said: As much as I hate the idea of playing the Fish indoors in December, overall I’m also coming around to the notion that indoors is the way to go in order to maximize ROI throughout the whole year and bring in other events including possibly the SB which the NFL seems to award all new stadium projects these days? But that wouldn’t be the sole reason to do it that way, just a contributing one. Fan experience would be another. Huddles, let's be honest (looks to the left, looks to right, leans into the keyboard and delicately presses the keys as they whisper) ...it would be awesome to be a "warm weather" team indoors like the Vikes and Indy. What? WHAT?! Who wrote that, we are a cold weather "3 yards and a cloud of dust" city!!! shhh Edited November 27, 2018 by dollars 2 donuts 1
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