If there was a Re Draft right now, who would you take, Allen or Darnold?

[CLTbills]

Definitely was NOT an Allen fan when they drafted him...  But he just has some of those things you can't teach.

10 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Josh Allen has a 63 QB rating and has never completed higher than 56% of his passes.  Yes, I would trade him for Rodgers.  Every non Bills fans would.  

 

He has started and finished exactly six games in his NFL career.

[The Frankish Reich]

10 hours ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

I mean I'd rather have Baker than Allen, wouldn't really care how he fits on this crap supporting offense. More when they're given weapons. 

 

That said, so far this season, it's clearly

1. Baker (Brees)

2. Allen (Favre)

3. Lamar (Vick)

4. Darnold (... Eli)

5. Rosen (Chad Pennington??)

 

And the level of play between all of them is huge. Don't know why this is even a question, Darnold looks like bust city. I'd much rather discuss Baker vs Allen. Allen certainly showed why he's hyped up with such a high ceiling last week. Looks like a Brees clone (Baker) vs a Favre clone (Allen).

The comparisons are fun and we all do it ("he plays like [blank]") so I'll resist the temptation to criticize. But Darnold a bust?  Right now he sits there right next to Josh Allen in QB rating. And if he's Eli Manning (15+ year career, 2 Super Bowl rings), bring on the bust!

EDIT: Having said that, I'd have to say that a redraft (the "I wish I knew what I know now" scenario) would have likely resulted in the Giants and Broncos having taken a QB ahead of us. Which ones, I don't know. But that's because all of the rookie QB class have provided moments that make you say "that may be our franchise guy after all." And they've all given us jaw dropping moments of ineptitude too ...

 

 

Edited November 27, 2018 by The Frankish Reich

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

8 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

We have to go with Allen, don't we

 

I can't believe my massive 180 on him. He looks like he's going to be our answer at QB, finally.

 

.....neither do the masses..........

[The Frankish Reich]

You know who Allen most reminds me of right now, at this phase in his development?  Kaepernick.  And at this phase in his development, that's not a bad thing.

[oldmanfan]

Allen has more upside than Darnold

[wppete]

Once we get Allen some weapons and protection it’s going to be scary.  It’s all on Bean & Co. to get some quality players on offense in the offseason.

[BigBuff423]

On 11/26/2018 at 4:07 PM, mannc said:

I meant the part about him being more ready than JA.

 

IMO, it's about the level of competition and what Darnold did on a larger stage. While they have the same number of starts in college, Darnold has more yards and TDs at a higher level while playing in big games. I'm NOT saying Allen isn't better or maybe just as good as Darnold, I'm merely saying his experience of playing at USC with better "numbers" demonstrates to me he had a head-start on being NFL ready. IMHO, that first Jets game vs. Allen's first game against the Chargers showed that. And yes, I realize all the things that have happened since, but Darnold has almost triple the number of Allen's passing TDs and almost 1,000 yards more passing. He also has 11 INTs to Josh's 5 INTs, but looking at the other numbers it's understandable for both Rookies. Darnold and Allen are very similar in completion % as Darnold is at 55% and Allen is 52.5%, but with Darnold having better receivers to throw to over the course of the first 11 games, but Buffalo's receivers are starting to come into their own, so we'll see. 

 

Essentially, the point being Darnold and Allen are both what most thought they were: Darnold is used to tossing the rock around and gun-slinging it for yards and TDs while also taking INTs which helps in the NFL while Allen has ALL the top potential in the world with maybe the best arm the NFL has seen in decades but is very, very raw. Both will need to continue to develop their game, but IMHO, if Darnold was Drafted by the Bills and all things being the same, the Bills might have a win or two more, but Darnold will continue his frustrating ways for a season or two, while Allen's improvement *could* be something rarely ever observed. That is why I would still take Allen b/c this was never about 2018 anyways, and Allen has the potential to be a HOF QB if he continues his progress over the course of the next two seasons. Darnold could be as well, but IMHO, he will continue to be the guy who in one game throws for 300 yards and 4 TDs and the next game passes for 400 yards 1TD and 4 INTs....Favre-esq....still very good, but frustrating due to the bi-polar nature of his game. I could be wrong...it's just my perspective as of today. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by BigBuff423

[The Frankish Reich]

36 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Allen has more upside than Darnold

EJ Manuel had more upside than Ryan Fitzpatrick. Paxton Lynch had more upside than Case Keenum. RG3 had more upside than Kirk Cousins ...

... not saying Allen will be a bust; just that "upside" usually translates into what baseball scouts call "toolsy" (with a position player) or "projectable" (with a pitcher). And some of those toolsy/projectable guys turn into Bryce Harper or Noah Syndergard; some don't.

[mead107]

Should have just stayed with Peterman. 

Picked up Riley Ferguson for next year 

????????????????

[Bing Bong]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

The comparisons are fun and we all do it ("he plays like [blank]") so I'll resist the temptation to criticize. But Darnold a bust?  Right now he sits there right next to Josh Allen in QB rating. And if he's Eli Manning (15+ year career, 2 Super Bowl rings), bring on the bust!

EDIT: Having said that, I'd have to say that a redraft (the "I wish I knew what I know now" scenario) would have likely resulted in the Giants and Broncos having taken a QB ahead of us. Which ones, I don't know. But that's because all of the rookie QB class have provided moments that make you say "that may be our franchise guy after all." And they've all given us jaw dropping moments of ineptitude too ...

 

 

Hey it's fun! Darnold's been getting the Eli comparison since he came in. Definitely looks like early Eli which was pretty interception happy. Just comps i'd love a literal Eli career.

[Coach Tuesday]

They both look good to me, and they both seem like they're in the right fit for their respective personalities.  Although maybe based on fit alone, Darnold should be in Cleveland and Mayfield should be in New Jersey.

[ghostwriter]

18 hours ago, ddaryl said:

at this point neither..  Josh runs and occasionally throws an accurate pass. He has a LONG LONG way to go IMO

 

when he throws consistently and averages about  200 yds a game then I will START to believe in him

 

 

 

 

 

 

Need to add a couple of skill guys. A pass catching RB could get him 200ypg, he's at about 160ypg now? He's hitting big throws, need to get in the habit of 1 yd passes to McCoy for 10yds. That'll also spike his completion % and move the chains. Our RBs need to be used as a receivers if they can't run behind this OL. Can Murphy catch?

[Cheektowaga Chad]

At the time of the draft I would have taken darnold. I had it Mayfield Darnold Rosen then Allen and Jackson.  I thought the top three were guys you trade up for and Jackson and Allen were guys you stood pat for.  Now without question I take Allen above all but Mayfield.

 

Allen's drive to win and competitiveness are extremely high. He also seems to be very open to learning and very coachable. He kinda reminds me of Ryan Fitzpatrick except with more advanced raw skills

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

EJ Manuel had more upside than Ryan Fitzpatrick. Paxton Lynch had more upside than Case Keenum. RG3 had more upside than Kirk Cousins ...

... not saying Allen will be a bust; just that "upside" usually translates into what baseball scouts call "toolsy" (with a position player) or "projectable" (with a pitcher). And some of those toolsy/projectable guys turn into Bryce Harper or Noah Syndergard; some don't.

Plus Allen is playing better than Darnold right now.

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, NewDayBills said:

Need to add a couple of skill guys. A pass catching RB could get him 200ypg, he's at about 160ypg now? He's hitting big throws, need to get in the habit of 1 yd passes to McCoy for 10yds. That'll also spike his completion % and move the chains. Our RBs need to be used as a receivers if they can't run behind this OL. Can Murphy catch?

I think a speed RB in the 3rd/4th round in the draft will be vital for next year. Hopefully they can find that James white/Alvin Kamara type of player

[ddaryl]

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 6:55 AM, NewDayBills said:

Need to add a couple of skill guys. A pass catching RB could get him 200ypg, he's at about 160ypg now? He's hitting big throws, need to get in the habit of 1 yd passes to McCoy for 10yds. That'll also spike his completion % and move the chains. Our RBs need to be used as a receivers if they can't run behind this OL. Can Murphy catch?

 

 

well until he shows consistency... I still need to see the quick reads and accurate throws in the intermediate game... As it stand right now I do not believe he is the future.. subject to change.. but I am not seeing the flashes I had hoped to see

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

On 11/27/2018 at 8:41 AM, BigBuff423 said:

 

IMO, it's about the level of competition and what Darnold did on a larger stage. While they have the same number of starts in college, Darnold has more yards and TDs at a higher level while playing in big games. I'm NOT saying Allen isn't better or maybe just as good as Darnold, I'm merely saying his experience of playing at USC with better "numbers" demonstrates to me he had a head-start on being NFL ready. IMHO, that first Jets game vs. Allen's first game against the Chargers showed that. And yes, I realize all the things that have happened since, but Darnold has almost triple the number of Allen's passing TDs and almost 1,000 yards more passing. He also has 11 INTs to Josh's 5 INTs, but looking at the other numbers it's understandable for both Rookies. Darnold and Allen is very similar in completion % as Darnold is at 55% and Allen is 52.5%, but with Darnold having better receivers to throw to over the course of the first 11 games, but Buffalo's receivers are starting to come into their own, so we'll see. 

 

Essentially, the point being Darnold and Allen are both what most thought they were: Darnold is used to tossing the rock around and gun-slinging it for yards and TDs while also taking INTs which helps in the NFL while Allen has ALL the top potential in the world with maybe the best arm the NFL has seen in decades but is very, very raw. Both will need to continue to develop their game, but IMHO, if Darnold was Drafted by the Bills and all things being the same, the Bills might have a win or two more, but Darnold will continue his frustrating ways for a season or two, while Allen's improvement *could* be something rarely ever observed. That is why I would still take Allen b/c this was never about 2018 anyways, and Allen has the potential to be a HOF QB if he continues his progress over the course of the next two seasons. Darnold could be as well, but IMHO, he will continue to be the guy who in one game throws for 300 yards and 4 TDs and the next game passes for 400 yards 1TD and 4 INTs....Favre-esq....still very good, but frustrating due to the bi-polar nature of his game. I could be wrong...it's just my perspective as of today. 

 

On point

[Bangarang]

I would take either Mahomes or Watson and use all the picks for Allen on offense.

[thebandit27]

My pre-draft rankings were:

1A - Rosen

1B - Mayfield

3 - Darnold 

4 - Allen 

5 - Jackson 

 

and i said at that time that I'd be fine with any of them in round 1.

 

I see no reason to change anything at this point