njbuff Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 Just now, DasNootz said: 3 weeks ago, weren't we saying the Bills were a historically bad offense as well? Absolutely. But as the season has played out, it is indeed the Jets who are the ones who are historically bad. Foster and McKenzie (spelling) have added a nice speed dimension, which has loosened up the offense a little more.
msw2112 Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 This is off-topic, but Foster was mentioned in the last post. How did he suddenly develop hands? He had been cut from the team, then magically re-signed before the Jests game and is now playing lights out. He always had the speed, but couldn't hang onto a ball to save his life. What happened?
2003Contenders Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 20 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said: IMHO, Josh Allen was always about the long game. Darnold may have been a bit more NFL ready in terms of pedigree, but I think Josh Allen's potential is unbelievably high. To me Drafting Josh Allen was the equivalent of taking a real, unbroken stallion and turning him into one of the lite race horses of all time. It takes hard work, patience, dedication to the craft, and a refining ability to hone in on the talent and intangibles that can make him great. It also takes a nuanced comprehension that really NOBODY knew / knows if he possesses in that the ability to read and adjust to an NFL Defense pre-snap. Somewhere on the internet, a.k.a. Twitter-verse, a comparison was done of all the collegiate starts among the top 10 QB Rookies and Allen by far had the fewest. So he was the most raw, with the least exposure but with the greatest potential. IMO, the remains true. It will be a few years before we know what Josh Allen truly is or is not, but as of today with the progress I've seen, I'd take Allen for all the reasons listed above. If I were a team like the Ravens or 49ers, probably Darnold. Darnold is more NFL ready in total, or a year ahead in his development, but I just think if Allen puts it all together, we have the makings of one of the best QBs, and certainly the best Bills QB since (maybe ever) JK. I agree. Rookies are by their very nature erratic. Recall that the game after the big one against the Vikings, Josh responded with a stinker against the Packers. This is going to happen from time to time, and I hope the fan base will be patient and not get overly hysterical when Allen inevitably has a bad game. These rookie QBs are all in varying situations. If we believe all of the media reports that came out leading up to the draft, the Browns really were conflicted about Mayfield versus Allen. That is, the polish and savvy of Mayfield versus the off-the-charts potential (but overt rawness) of Allen. Cleveland decided for the good of the franchise to go the direction of Mayfield. And, so far that looks like they made the right decision. But who knows how well that will pan out down the road? After all, the 2018 draft was not all about which QB would be best in 2018 -- but who may have the best chance being the face of the franchise for the next 10 years. The early returns prove that the naysayers were right about Mayfield being pro-ready. But there were other experts who believed that Rosen may be the most pro ready of them all. Rosen has decent weapons -- but a horrible offensive line. Then there is Darnold, who has also shown some potential but has also been brutal at times. I, for one, never understood the consensus "boom or bust" prediction for Josh Allen heading into the draft. The boom is obvious given his crazy measureables and smarts.. However, the floor seems too high to fear that he could be a real bust (a la JaMarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf). Even when Josh has struggled, he's never had that deer-in-the-headlights look. More impressive to me in the victory yesterday (even than the long run and the big pass plays) was his pocket presence. I am talking about the manner in which he stepped up in the pocket when he needed to, made subtle movements in the pocket or rolled out, and was willing to stare through the teeth of the defense and keep his eyes downfield. If the coaches and front office handle him the right way, he has a chance to be something special. 2 1
DCOrange Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 Before the draft, I had Lamar and Darnold rated ahead of Allen. Now, I would take Lamar and Mayfield ahead of Allen. I'd take Allen over Darnold now though, and have always preferred him over Rosen.
Misterbluesky Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, billsfan11 said: If there was a re draft at this point in the season, who would you take if you were in the Jets position, Allen or Darnold? I know I’m biased but I would honestly say Allen. Darnolds concerns going into the draft were turnovers, and he’s showing nothing to ease that concern. Allen was obviously very raw coming from a small school so it was a high risk pick. Allen Is showing he can play in this league at a fairly high level and this is with probably the worst weapons in the league. (I know it’s way too early to judge these QBs right now, this is just a hypothetical question) Allen in a heartbeat.I can't wait to see him play in bitter cold weather. Edited November 26, 2018 by Misterbluesky 2
BigBuff423 Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 21 minutes ago, mannc said: What about Darnold’s performance leads you to believe this? IMO, there is zero actual evidence to support it. When I think about Darnold, he's a guy who with a great supporting Defense OR a tremendous supporting Offensive cast, can win games. IMHO, Ravens Defense and ground game, along with John Brown, Willie Snead etc. or the 49ers Offense of Goodwin, Kittle, Breida, etc. all provide a type of supporting cast that mitigates his weaknesses. Additionally, for the 49ers, it's the California connection that helps him be even more at ease. NYC is a rough place to start a career, especially when you're constantly under the microscope. I'm NOT saying he's not a good kid or not even a decent QB in his current status, I'm merely saying I think on the aforementioned teams, his stats are even better and he looks even more the part of a franchise QB. To me, NYJ was one of the harder places to go for all the reasons I've mentioned, including the NY scrutiny.
Putin Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 1 hour ago, unbillievable said: Rookie QB rankings so far. Mayfield Allen Jackson Darnold Rosen According too ??? 57 minutes ago, Coach55 said: will post the answer at 4pm. No one got it yet. Breez ???
BillsFan130 Posted November 26, 2018 Author Posted November 26, 2018 49 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Based on my work done prior to the draft I'd have taken Rosen. I still haven't seen enough from any QB to move me off of that spot. You would still take Rosen over Allen and Darnold now? Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Rosen supposed to be the most pro ready QB coming out of this draft? He’s struggling big time to start his career but I understand it’s still very early
Putin Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, DCOrange said: Before the draft, I had Lamar and Darnold rated ahead of Allen. Now, I would take Lamar and Mayfield ahead of Allen. I'd take Allen over Darnold now though, and have always preferred him over Rosen. We’re talking QB’s here not running backs
DCOrange Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 1 minute ago, Putin said: We’re talking QB’s here not running backs The reason I had Lamar as my #1 QB in the class and still do is because his running ability is so insanely special that even being a below average passer should be enough for him to be a good starting QB. With the exception of Baker, I don't think any of the other rookies are significantly better throwing the ball than Lamar is right now. In fact, I'm not sure they're better at all.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, billsfan11 said: You would still take Rosen over Allen and Darnold now? Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t Rosen supposed to be the most pro ready QB coming out of this draft? He’s struggling big time to start his career but I understand it’s still very early Yes, I would.
msw2112 Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 I'd take Allen over Darnold. Before the draft, I was a pro-Rosen guy. Now, I would take Allen over Rosen too. I was not that high on Mayfield because I thought he was an Oklahoma/Big 12 system guy, but if you look at Mayfield and Mahomes, perhaps that moniker isn't so bad any more. Maybe these guys can succeed now because the NFL is starting to implement a lot more college concepts into its offenses - spreading the field, RPO's, operating almost full-time out of the shotgun, etc. Or maybe they are just really talented kids....Sometimes comparing these young rookies to current/past players can help predict how they might perform during their careers. My first cut: Allen = Newton and Big Ben Mayfield = Brees Jackson = Mike Vick and a better version of Tyrod Darnold = ?
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, Putin said: We’re talking QB’s here not running backs Just ask Wrecks... running QBs are the NFLs future
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 35 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: Yes. Now and forever. I mean it get it and it’s part of being a fan. But it’s kinda insane. Allen averages 141 yards passing/ game. I thought the Darnold hype was out of control and he has a major issue with turnovers. That said, he is asked to do much more than Allen. SD averages 10 more passing attempts per game. I would still take SD over Allen but he hasn’t exactly wowed me either. Honestly, besides Mayfield, it seems like this class was completely overhyped. That said, it is still so early and these guys all went to pretty bad teams (though we did make the playoffs). Just now, msw2112 said: I'd take Allen over Darnold. Before the draft, I was a pro-Rosen guy. Now, I would take Allen over Rosen too. I was not that high on Mayfield because I thought he was an Oklahoma/Big 12 system guy, but if you look at Mayfield and Mahomes, perhaps that moniker isn't so bad any more. Maybe these guys can succeed now because the NFL is starting to implement a lot more college concepts into its offenses - spreading the field, RPO's, operating almost full-time out of the shotgun, etc. Or maybe they are just really talented kids....Sometimes comparing these young rookies to current/past players can help predict how they might perform during their careers. My first cut: Allen = Newton and Big Ben Mayfield = Brees Jackson = Mike Vick and a better version of Tyrod Darnold = ? No one likes it but Allen is a lot closer to Lamar as a passer than Newton or Big Ben.
msw2112 Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 I'd say Allen is a lot like a younger, more raw version of Newton. Newton struggles with accuracy, even as a veteran. But he is so big, athletic and mobile that he can create passing opportunities by avoiding the rush, and he has incredible arm strength, so he can make throws that others can't. Newton came from a big-time program at Auburn, so was not nearly as raw as Allen coming into the league, and if my memory serves me correctly, Newton had one of the best rookie seasons ever for a QB. Lamar isn't as big and strong as Newton or Allen, but from what I have seen (which is more his college play at Louisville - I have not watched his 2 starts with the Ravens), he is more athletic.
mannc Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 18 minutes ago, BigBuff423 said: When I think about Darnold, he's a guy who with a great supporting Defense OR a tremendous supporting Offensive cast, can win games. IMHO, Ravens Defense and ground game, along with John Brown, Willie Snead etc. or the 49ers Offense of Goodwin, Kittle, Breida, etc. all provide a type of supporting cast that mitigates his weaknesses. Additionally, for the 49ers, it's the California connection that helps him be even more at ease. NYC is a rough place to start a career, especially when you're constantly under the microscope. I'm NOT saying he's not a good kid or not even a decent QB in his current status, I'm merely saying I think on the aforementioned teams, his stats are even better and he looks even more the part of a franchise QB. To me, NYJ was one of the harder places to go for all the reasons I've mentioned, including the NY scrutiny. I meant the part about him being more ready than JA.
thenorthremembers Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 Josh put on a good show yesterday with his feet, but I am still incredibly worried about his ability to throw the ball. Right now I would take Darnold. You cant get by on 52.5% completion rate for long. Hopefully Jackson comes to Earth a bit and stops winning games, its only been two, but if we take those games into account he looks like the 2nd best. Mayfield Jackson Darnold Allen Rosen
BillsFan130 Posted November 26, 2018 Author Posted November 26, 2018 1 minute ago, msw2112 said: I'd say Allen is a lot like a younger, more raw version of Newton. Newton struggles with accuracy, even as a veteran. But he is so big, athletic and mobile that he can create passing opportunities by avoiding the rush, and he has incredible arm strength, so he can make throws that others can't. Newton came from a big-time program at Auburn, so was not nearly as raw as Allen coming into the league, and if my memory serves me correctly, Newton had one of the best rookie seasons ever for a QB. Lamar isn't as big and strong as Newton or Allen, but from what I have seen (which is more his college play at Louisville - I have not watched his 2 starts with the Ravens), he is more athletic. Ya I remember Cam's first game, he threw for like 400 yards or something? Crazy Just now, thenorthremembers said: Josh put on a good show yesterday with his feet, but I am still incredibly worried about his ability to throw the ball. Right now I would take Darnold. You cant get by on 52.5% completion rate for long. Hopefully Jackson comes to Earth a bit and stops winning games, its only been two, but if we take those games into account he looks like the 2nd best. Mayfield Jackson Darnold Allen Rosen I see what you're saying, but hard to judge Allen's stats yesterday. Completed 2 3rd and longs that got called back on penalties, and should at least had 2 or 3 more completions as he threw perfect strikes and they resulted in drops. 1
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 26, 2018 Posted November 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, msw2112 said: I'd say Allen is a lot like a younger, more raw version of Newton. Newton struggles with accuracy, even as a veteran. But he is so big, athletic and mobile that he can create passing opportunities by avoiding the rush, and he has incredible arm strength, so he can make throws that others can't. Newton came from a big-time program at Auburn, so was not nearly as raw as Allen coming into the league, and if my memory serves me correctly, Newton had one of the best rookie seasons ever for a QB. Lamar isn't as big and strong as Newton or Allen, but from what I have seen (which is more his college play at Louisville - I have not watched his 2 starts with the Ravens), he is more athletic. Newton was literally the best player in college in the best conference, won a NC, after winning a JUCO NC, and set Rmroplie passing records. i think people severely underrate how good Newton is. 1
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