Cover 1: The Bills Are Changing Their Approach to the WR Position

[Putin]

6 hours ago, KW95 said:

I think they should suggest a 40 yard dash at combine to find fast receivers.

 

 

Unfortunately there’s not too many 6’5- 6’6 tall WR’s who can get separation from speedy DB’s , 

someone needs to let Bean know that it’s ok to draft a 6’0 -6’1 WR that’s got speed and good hands 

[John from Riverside]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yes there was no legit reason to take a step back offensively.

 

Just wasn't necessary.

 

It wasn't just the WR position........the QB of the future that they've been waiting decades for fell into their lap on draft day 2017........and almost impossibly it wasn't even just ONE option.?

 

While we have vocal apologists for these moves right now.............if Allen doesn't turn into a stud QB and McBeane get fired..........we will UNIVERSALLY pan their handling of the offensive side of the ball.     Even John from Riverside via Hemet will hate them for it!

 

Fortunately they can still turn this program into a contender with some good moves and some bounces.......... but the past two seasons have been HARD on the eyes if you appreciate offensive football(which is to say if you appreciate CURRENT and "entertaining" NFL football).

I simply want to give them a chance to complete their vision before saying that they screwed it up

 

there have been unexexpected things that have happened along the way like the ol  zay Jones taking longer the. Expected etc etc

 

they have missed on guys like kb and vd to be sure but this happens to other teams as well the patriots miss on free agency all the time but still have the most important piece

 

it all centers around josh Allen and his future and his future relies on what the bills do this offseason

 

you can’t call it a failure in a rebuilding season

 

 

[Big Turk]

6 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

 

 

Raiders had some of the fastest WRs in the NFL on their teams back in the day and they sucked. Gotta have more than just speed.

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, matter2003 said:

 

Raiders had some of the fastest WRs in the NFL on their teams back in the day and they sucked. Gotta have more than just speed.

 

Warren Wells and Cliff Branch certainly didn't. 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Foster has 27 yards less than St. Brown with way less opportunities on a worse offense with worst QB situation thus far.  So how does St. Brown make more sense than the guys we drafted?  We got equal production in UDFA Foster and still took guys like Taron, Phillips, Teller in the draft, all of which have shown promise.  

Again though that is in hindsight. It is kind of my point. On draft day, no one had Foster as a better prospect than St. Brown. Taking an UDFA isn’t valuing the position regardless of the outcome. If Foster was Antonio Brown this year it doesn’t change that. The issue that we are having is that they neglected speed and didn’t think it was important. If they did, they would have prioritized it.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Kirby Jackson

[Seoulofstone]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No, that IS EXACTLY my point you see.  There is all this freaking out over the offense this year when there was no other decisions this offseason that would have made any notable changes to the offense this year.  You just reinforced my exact point.  Everyone else acts like there was some offensive player that would have somehow changed our fortunes this year.

 

This thread is too funny. I completely agree with @Alphadawg7 it’s hilarious all these revisionists with the benefit of hindsight who pretend that if you draft a top WR who plays on the Falcons opposite Julio with Ryan throwing the ball, that his production would be exactly the same if he was dropped into this team. Um no. Him and St Brown who has done nothing with Rodgers throwing to them don’t come here and get the same numbers. To even suggest it is laughable. Just count all the advantages they have at the team they are at. It would be fair if they had drafted badly with those picks but this was mostly good drafting.

[Big Turk]

34 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Warren Wells and Cliff Branch certainly didn't. 

No I was talking post Tim Brown Raiders

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, matter2003 said:

No I was talking post Tim Brown Raiders

 

Al's love of speed as a key element in the Raider offense goes way back to the 60's when Daryle Lamonica was his QB.

[Seoulofstone]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Again thought that is in hindsight. It is kind of my point. On draft day, no one had Foster as a better prospect than St. Brown. Taking an UDFA isn’t valuing the position regardless of the outcome. 

 

So taking a 6th rounder instead of a UDFA is enough prioritizing speed for you? He’s a 4.48 guy. I mean I don’t get it.

 

Even though I would have taken st Brown over the guys they took in 6 and 7 too, the argument falls down because given opportunities on a better offense he hasn’t done much. If you want to use hindsight at least pick a guy like Tre’Quan Smith, Keke Coutee, or Valdez Scantling who have been difference makers.

[Dr.Sack]

Look at the best WR in NFL history, Jerry Rice. He didn’t win many battles in the air. He did his winning with precise routes, quickness in and out of his cuts, and amazing hands. Fast forward to 2018. The best WRs possess these very traits. But the number one of all traits is the ability to get seperation. 

[Kirby Jackson]

5 minutes ago, Seoul_panther said:

 

So taking a 6th rounder instead of a UDFA is enough prioritizing speed for you? He’s a 4.48 guy. I mean I don’t get it.

 

Even though I would have taken st Brown over the guys they took in 6 and 7 too, the argument falls down because given opportunities on a better offense he hasn’t done much. If you want to use hindsight at least pick a guy like Tre’Quan Smith, Keke Coutee, or Valdez Scantling who have been difference makers.

He was thought of as high as a late 1. He was even in for a visit I believe. It would have been investing in a talented player with a weird family. It would have showed an effort. 

 

I’m not using hindsight which is why I specifically used St. Brown. The goal wasn’t to be “we could have taken Tom Brady in the 6th.” The fact that the Bills were okay with an UDFA rookie as the speed guy exemplifies the fact that they didn’t emphasize it. If he turned into something, great but if not they believed that they had enough options. Their offense was tragic so they got together and said “we need to be faster.” You can find posts from me and others on here from months and months ago saying exactly that. We were right, not Beane and McDermott. They admitted as much by addressing it. 

 

Again, my issue is that coming into training camp they were fine if they didn’t have speed. After they cut Coleman they felt the same way. “We are fast enough.” It was a mistake. It hurt the pass game and the run game.

[Seoulofstone]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

 

Ultimately, in year one they prioritized bringing in benjamin and mike Tolbert, AND a full back  - i don’t get why it’s controversial to say they created a speed deficit in a league that’s getting faster every day. As others pointed out - Carolina likewise had a slower offense at a lot of key positions too.

 

 

  This I agree with as a Panthers fan. Benjamin had his good games against strong teams for us. But his mistakes, lack of effort, and being badly overweight at TC were all red flags. In addition, he seems to be immature and come up with excuses. Even when he left, I still hoped he could be better, but something was clearly up for us to trade him when we were going to the playoffs and had a lack of WR production. Once Funchess was injured we were down to PS guys in the playoffs and that’s not gonna fly in New Orleans.

 

 No doubt the Bills were fleeced in the trade. But things can improve quickly, if you have even an average QB with good WRs.

 

Speed has helped us a lot. Just promise me one thing. 

Dont take Funchess in free agency. He’s a Benjamin clone, 

[Seoulofstone]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He was thought of as high as a late 1. He was even in for a visit I believe. It would have been investing in a talented player with a weird family. It would have showed an effort. 

 

I’m not using hindsight which is why I specifically used St. Brown. The goal wasn’t to be “we could have taken Tom Brady in the 6th.” The fact that the Bills were okay with an UDFA rookie as the speed guy exemplifies the fact that they didn’t emphasize it. If he turned into something, great but if not they believed that they had enough options. Their offense was tragic so they got together and said “we need to be faster.” You can find posts from me and others on here from months and months ago saying exactly that. We were right, not Beane and McDermott. They admitted as much by addressing it. 

 

Again, my issue is that coming into training camp they were fine if they didn’t have speed. After they cut Coleman they felt the same way. “We are fast enough.” It was a mistake. It hurt the pass game and the run game.

 

  I too saw st Brown mocked high. It seems there must be something up for him to fall to the 6th. I was surprised too. But investing a high pick in him or someone else would have shown prioritizing as you say. But what else? It is highly unlikely that he would have transformed this O single handedly. Would fans be satisfied with his current level of production at the Bills for a high pick and losing say Phillips. In this alternate reality would TSW have threads suggesting that HP was available but the Bills wasted a pick on “another” Zay Jones. I can just picture it. That’s why I call it hindsight. I get that people are frustrated with Bills WRs. But imagine supporting a team that had Benjamin and Funchess as receivers! Ugh. 

 

By the way. St Brown has a brother at USC (a WR with an even more awesome name)- Amon Ra. So your chances at drafting a St Brown are not yet gone!

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea but according to this message board all of that tearing down of the offense ABSOLUTELY NEEDED to happen because "cap hell", "process", and "Whaley mistakes".

 

Maybe we would’ve won the super bowl last year or this year if we didn’t trade Sammy and Marcel.......no. And that’s all that matters.  Championship or bust.  Not sure why people have an issue with those moves.  

 

Sammy wasn’t going to resign here.  Sure we could’ve held him ransom for for an extra year or two but he was a cancer within the locker room and admitted that he was an immature diva that didn’t work hard.  The rams trade for him.....then let him go and trade a 1st rd pick in order to get a midgeeee and pay him similar money.  Shows how much they saw in him after a year.  They didn’t want him.  

 

Marcel.  He was a complete malcontent that is a suspension away from a year long nap and an overblown contract that handicapped us going forward.  Maybe we would’ve beaten the jags with him.....and then wrecked by the Steelers or pats.  I remember everyone saying “look how good the jags d is now that they have dareus”. And now look at them.  Good do. Same record as us.  Really did them a lot of good.

 

Maybe if we would’ve kept them and Tyrod we could’ve been Andy daltons bengals the last decade.  Instead, we gutted the salaries that we didn’t want, got picks.  Got the QB they THEY wanted and are spending money on players THEY want.  Can’t blame them considering we were the laughing stock of the league for 20 years.  Not sure why they would want to come in and keep players they didn’t want.  

 

Just because some of you guys think they made a mistake, doesn’t mean they actually did.  If they draft bad players and sign the wrong guys via FA in the coming years, THATS when they screwed up.  When they drafted these upcoming players and last offseason acquistions.  Say whatever you like, but TYROD TAYLOR wasn’t going to lead this team to a super bowl win with the assistance of Sammy Watkins and Marcel dareus. As said before:  that’s the only thing that matters.  We’d be a middling low end playoff team with a jacked up payroll.  

 

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, NewEra said:

 

Maybe we would’ve won the super bowl last year or this year if we didn’t trade Sammy and Marcel.......no. And that’s all that matters.  Championship or bust.  Not sure why people have an issue with those moves.  

 

Sammy wasn’t going to resign here.  Sure we could’ve held him ransom for for an extra year or two but he was a cancer within the locker room and admitted that he was an immature diva that didn’t work hard.  The rams trade for him.....then let him go and trade a 1st rd pick in order to get a midgeeee and pay him similar money.  Shows how much they saw in him after a year.  They didn’t want him.  

 

Marcel.  He was a complete malcontent that is a suspension away from a year long nap and an overblown contract that handicapped us going forward.  Maybe we would’ve beaten the jags with him.....and then wrecked by the Steelers or pats.  I remember everyone saying “look how good the jags d is now that they have dareus”. And now look at them.  Good do. Same record as us.  Really did them a lot of good.

 

Maybe if we would’ve kept them and Tyrod we could’ve been Andy daltons bengals the last decade.  Instead, we gutted the salaries that we didn’t want, got picks.  Got the QB they THEY wanted and are spending money on players THEY want.  Can’t blame them considering we were the laughing stock of the league for 20 years.  Not sure why they would want to come in and keep players they didn’t want.  

 

Just because some of you guys think they made a mistake, doesn’t mean they actually did.  If they draft bad players and sign the wrong guys via FA in the coming years, THATS when they screwed up.  When they drafted these upcoming players and last offseason acquistions.  Say whatever you like, but TYROD TAYLOR wasn’t going to lead this team to a super bowl win with the assistance of Sammy Watkins and Marcel dareus. As said before:  that’s the only thing that matters.  We’d be a middling low end playoff team with a jacked up payroll.  

 

 

So much of what I bolded is simply made up or incorrect. 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

So much of what I bolded is simply made up or incorrect. 

So explain how it’s incorrect 

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

So explain how it’s incorrect 

 

Locker room cancer?  He complained about not getting the ball enough and he was right. He was focsued on numbers to help the team win, but that hardly made him a cancer.  The Rams did want to retain him, but underestimated the WR market in UFA. After he signed with KC, they didn't think the incoming class of WRs were worthy of a 1st round pick, so they made the deal to get Cooks. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Kirby Jackson]

14 minutes ago, Seoul_panther said:

 

  I too saw st Brown mocked high. It seems there must be something up for him to fall to the 6th. I was surprised too. But investing a high pick in him or someone else would have shown prioritizing as you say. But what else? It is highly unlikely that he would have transformed this O single handedly. Would fans be satisfied with his current level of production at the Bills for a high pick and losing say Phillips. In this alternate reality would TSW have threads suggesting that HP was available but the Bills wasted a pick on “another” Zay Jones. I can just picture it. That’s why I call it hindsight. I get that people are frustrated with Bills WRs. But imagine supporting a team that had Benjamin and Funchess as receivers! Ugh. 

 

By the way. St Brown has a brother at USC (a WR with an even more awesome name)- Amon Ra. So your chances at drafting a St Brown are not yet gone!

I don’t think that it would have transformed the offense but it would have been better. The ability to keep guys away from the LOS helps the running game too. The Bills offensive talent is poor. They need to hit some big plays to contend. We all knew that. This wasn’t going to be an offense that sustains 20 play drives. They had to turn it over on defense, take care of it on offense and make some big plays. The Jets game was an example of what had to happen.

 

Benjamin and Funchess is a nightmare scenario. The league is going the other way. It is guys that can play in space. For me it’s not hindsight because I was screaming for this well before it didn’t work out. They could have even kept Deonte Thompson and I would have been happy. I’m not saying “I can’t believe they didn’t get Julio Jones.” It is more “I can’t believe that these guys think this WR group is fast enough.” 

[Seoulofstone]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

The Rams did want to retain him, but underestimated the WR market in UFA. After he signed with KC, they didn't think the incoming class of WRs were worthy of a 1st round pick, so they made the deal to get Cooks. 

 

 Do you think considering the historic numbers that high octane KC O is putting up that he is finally living up to his draft position and hype? You’re obviously a SW fan but I’m gonna say without any vested interest that his numbers are at best patchy and inconsistent. 

 

 Also it’s funny that Sean McVay didn’t see anything he liked in the WRs in this draft yet all the armchair Gms here know better.

[NewEra]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Locker room cancer?  Je complained about not getting the ball enough and he was right. He was focsued on numbers to help the team win, but that hardly made him a cancer.  The Rams did want to retain him, but underestimated the WR market in UFA. After he signed with KC, they didn't think the incoming class of WRs were worthy of a 1st round pick, so they made the deal to get Cooks. 

He was an egomanicial diva.  He admitted it. He didn’t have a QB that wouldnt feed him the ball and cried and whines about it while telling us fans that our jobs and lives are basically worthless.  I’m sure he’s a great guy and all of his teammates loved him.  Keep believing that.  McDermott wanted no part of Sammy, the person.  I can’t blame him.  

 

The rams actually traded a 1st rd pick so they could sign a lesser wr to a similar contract.  If they really wanted him THAT bad, they would’ve retained him.  They didn’t.  A year after giving up a 2nd rd pick and a decent CB for him.  Now he’s gone and the rams are even better.  Meanwhile, Sammy has an injured foot.  Imagine that