Cover 1: The Bills Are Changing Their Approach to the WR Position

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

And I think people are looking at Tyreek Hill now as if he wasn’t this good last year (he was) and saying ‘oh you need guys like that!’ without seeing teams like Minny and SD who are very productive passing offenses without fast wideouts.

 

But still need it. Number 1 problem with Bill's they cannot get separation. Until added couple players helped with speed. Like Jets they looked good. Benjamin is worst player in league. You need speed to add or do things for a offense and defense to try to gameplan for it. Easier to attack an offense with no speed on it. 

13 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

I want a coach that's ahead of the curve. Those are the guys that win long-term in this league, the proactive ones, not the reactive. 

 

Is this what we're going to have to expect from these guys? Failure before they know what to aim for? 

 

Do you see McDermott as a coach that's going to be innovative? I've seen the guys who've won long term in this league like Belichick and Reid and they introduce new principles and wrinkles into what they do. I don't see McDermott being that kind of guy. I mean it took them a year and a half to understand how important speed is in the most successful schemes with the rules in place? The good coaches and GM's in this league started to adjust as soon as they saw what was happening with the rules, before they even played, because they could see where the league was going.

 

That's the kind of coach and GM I want, the ones who are part of setting the trend, not the ones who struggle to mimic them. 

 

I think it's all about a balance and having a WR core that can do a variety of things. I don't think your #1 necessarily has to be a high speed guy, but you want a couple of effective high speed guys in your offense not only for the big plays they can bring but to stretch the field to help the other facets in it.

 

100% agree with this post.

[Alphadawg7]

4 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They could have taken St. Brown over Siran Neal or Ray Ray. He went after both of them. That’s why I used him as an example. 

 

Foster has 27 yards less than St. Brown with way less opportunities on a worse offense with worst QB situation thus far.  So how does St. Brown make more sense than the guys we drafted?  We got equal production in UDFA Foster and still took guys like Taron, Phillips, Teller in the draft, all of which have shown promise.  

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

But still need it. Number 1 problem with Bill's they cannot get separation. Until added couple players helped with speed. Like Jets they looked good. Benjamin is worst player in league. You need speed to add or do things for a offense and defense to try to gameplan for it. Easier to attack an offense with no speed on it. 

Thielen. Allen. Diggs. Williams/Williams. None of them ‘speed’ guys, but somehow both Chargers and Vikings have top 10 pass offenses. Point being- you need good offensive players. Not fast guys, big guys, strong guys or quick guys. There really isn’t one special trait that suddenly matters other than ‘good’.

[26CornerBlitz]

15 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Thielen. Allen. Diggs. Williams/Williams. None of them ‘speed’ guys, but somehow both Chargers and Vikings have top 10 pass offenses. Point being- you need good offensive players. Not fast guys, big guys, strong guys or quick guys. There really isn’t one special trait that suddenly matters other than ‘good’.

 

The Chargers have Tyrell Williams who is plenty fast and he plays like it on game days.  Same thing with Diggs who also has very good timed speed and he also plays fast. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The Chargers have Tyrell Williams who is plenty fast and he plays like it on game days.  Same thing with Diggs who also has very good timed speed who also plays fast. 

 

Right Thielen and Diggs have respectful time 4:45 and 4:46 from combine.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

Right Thielen and Diggs have respectful time 4:45 and 4:46 from combine.

 

That's certainly not slow by any measure. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

The Chargers have Tyrell Williams who is plenty fast and he plays like it on game days.  Same thing with Diggs who also has very good timed speed who also plays fast. 

I wouldn’t call either Diggs or Tyrell Williams (who I like a lot and is going to be a FA) necessarily ‘speed’ guys, certainly not in the capacity that folks are complaining the Bills haven’t addressed. Diggs is just a very good wideout. Williams I hope we go after this off-season. 

[HomeskillitMoorman]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No, that IS EXACTLY my point you see.  There is all this freaking out over the offense this year when there was no other decisions this offseason that would have made any notable changes to the offense this year.  You just reinforced my exact point.  Everyone else acts like there was some offensive player that would have somehow changed our fortunes this year.

 

There could have been notable changes with the offense this year, but the Bills failed on all fronts of that. I don't see your point at all. Just because we wouldn't have made the playoffs doesn't mean the offense couldn't have had more pieces or a better foundation could have been in process right now. 

 

People should be freaking out about the offense. It's horrific and needs a ton of work after 2 offseasons. There shouldn't be this many holes there after 2 offseasons. That's not even getting to the schematic stuff. We are still at least 2 offseasons away from being able to get to everything, and that's even if they are successful ones, which with what we've seen on that side of the ball from Beane and McDermott is so far from a given. 

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

Right Thielen and Diggs have respectful time 4:45 and 4:46 from combine.

So does Zay Jones.

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

So does Zay Jones.

 

He doesn't play as fast as that. 

[GoBills808]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He doesn't play as fast as that. 

I don’t know what this means. Someone quoted Diggs and Thielen 40 times which are the same as Zay Jones’. None of them are ‘speed’ guys which was my original point. They’re just good wideouts. 

[26CornerBlitz]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

I don’t know what this means. Someone quoted Diggs and Thielen 40 times which are the same as Zay Jones’. None of them are ‘speed’ guys which was my original point. They’re just good wideouts. 

 

That means timed speed in shorts does not always translate to playing fast on the field in games. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[GoBills808]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

That means timed speed in shorts does not always translated to playing fast on the feild in games. 

Then why did you agree with the guy who quoted 40 yard dash times?

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Then why did you agree with the guy who quoted 40 yard dash times?

 

Because I see how Thielen and Diggs play and it matches their times.

Edited November 22, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[GoBills808]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Because I see how Thielen and Diggs play. 

Yeah, me too. They're good. Nobody is going to call either of them 'speed' WRs in the sense that it's being talked about here.

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yeah, me too. They're good. Nobody is going to call either of them 'speed' WRs in the sense that it's being talked about here.

 

Labeling doesn't matter to me. They play fast and that helps their overall game because they can get deep which sets up the rest of what they do on the route tree. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[GoBills808]

Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Labeling doesn't matter to me. They play fast and that helps their overall game because they can get deep which sets up the rest of what they doe on the route tree. 

I agree. That's why I initially disagreed with the premise of that earlier comment in that 'speed' is some new concept that you must have in a wideout, or that somehow the Bills have neglected to go after similarly labelled guys. Jones is as fast as either Thielen and Diggs, yet he's a vastly inferior (at the point) WR for a lot of reasons other than speed. They're more physical, run sharper routes, have the strength to absorb contact and generate space for themselves...they are just generally better wideouts for a number of reasons and speed isn't the separating factor.

[NoSaint]

31 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

They could have taken St. Brown over Siran Neal or Ray Ray. He went after both of them. That’s why I used him as an example. 

 

Ultimately, in year one they prioritized bringing in benjamin and mike Tolbert, AND a full back  - i don’t get why it’s controversial to say they created a speed deficit in a league that’s getting faster every day. As others pointed out - Carolina likewise had a slower offense at a lot of key positions too.

 

they messed up. It was foreseeable the day the draft ended that our offense was going to be among the worst in quite some time.

 

They had had a lot of holes to fill because they created them.

 

they were cash strapped because they created dead money.

 

hopefully, if they are here next offseason, they learned some stuff and spend on guys that you have to gameplan for

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Yeah, me too. They're good. Nobody is going to call either of them 'speed' WRs in the sense that it's being talked about here.

 

I’d think the defense there is if all your guys are 4.4 guys that are talented and you have other good talent around them you are going to create stress on the defense. 

 

Benjamin doesn’t create stress. Pretty much no wr on our opening day depth chart did. Then we had no qb that could reliably distribute the ball but also gave very little to protecting those bad QBs.

 

Even on Benjamin’s best days our plan was to have peterman throwing knuckleballs to a 4.6+ wr if he could even get to the 5th step of his drop. This offense shouldn’t surprise people and the team did very little to avoid it.

[Big C]

12 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

Ultimately, in year one they prioritized bringing in benjamin and mike Tolbert, AND a full back  - i don’t get why it’s controversial to say they created a speed deficit in a league that’s getting faster every day. As others pointed out - Carolina likewise had a slower offense at a lot of key positions too.

 

they messed up. It was foreseeable the day the draft ended that our offense was going to be among the worst in quite some time.

 

They had had a lot of holes to fill because they created them.

 

they were cash strapped because they created dead money.

 

hopefully, if they are here next offseason, they learned some stuff and spend on guys that you have to gameplan for

 

I’d think the defense there is if all your guys are 4.4 guys that are talented and you have other good talent around them you are going to create stress on the defense. 

 

Benjamin doesn’t create stress. Pretty much no wr on our opening day depth chart did. Then we had no qb that could reliably distribute the ball but also gave very little to protecting those bad QBs.

 

Even on Benjamin’s best days our plan was to have peterman throwing knuckleballs to a 4.6+ wr if he could even get to the 5th step of his drop. This offense shouldn’t surprise people and the team did very little to avoid it.

 

I wouldn't say they prioritized bringing in Benjamin. He was a last minute trade for a team trying to make a playoff push plus one more year. However they did evaluate Kelvin's talent and drive poorly. 

 

I am fine with a new regime discarding bad contracts and bringing in their own guys so long as they do it right. Next year will be the real test.

[GoBills808]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I’d think the defense there is if all your guys are 4.4 guys that are talented and you have other good talent around them you are going to create stress on the defense. 

 

Benjamin doesn’t create stress. Pretty much no wr on our opening day depth chart did. Then we had no qb that could reliably distribute the ball but also gave very little to protecting those bad QBs.

 

Even on Benjamin’s best days our plan was to have peterman throwing knuckleballs to a 4.6+ wr if he could even get to the 5th step of his drop. This offense shouldn’t surprise people and the team did very little to avoid it.

Having Tyreek Hill on this offense isn't going to do a lot of good imo. Too many positions of need. You're right in that the offense being bad this year shouldn't surprise folks. Being as bad as it has I doubt anybody could have predicted, for a couple of reasons. First, Benjamin has been a good wideout in the past. He's been bad this year and that has hurt. Second was the injury to Allen, who I believe would have improved upon Anderson/Peterman's efforts in his absence. Outside those two things they have been about as bad as their personnel would predict, other than McCoy starting to show his age and not having a reliable TE. 

 

It comes down to Allen. If you hated the pick and don't think he's capable of being the guy, you are probably going to hate the offense and what they're trying to do going forward regardless. If you like Allen and think he's got a shot, you're going to give them a pass on this season and see who they bring in for 2019. FO was limited in FA this season in terms of cap and availability- next year I am fairly sure the offense is going to look much different. This year's iteration is certainly not what they envision the finished product being.