Barkley should start and lose or keep the job. Nuance, emotion, morale are important.

[Roundybout]

While Barkley played great, and I am pounding the table to resign him as our long term backup, let's not pretend that he threw for 400 yards out there. He put up 232 and 2 touchdowns, which is just above Dak Prescott level. He also almost threw two bad picks. The Jets are an absolute tire fire. Give me Allen and continue his development. That's what these next few games are about, like it or not. 

[billsredneck1]

13 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

It’s certainly not up to the fans but I can’t tell you one thing. If Allen stinks the place up and we go right back to the stuck in the mud offense...the crowd is going to let them hear it big time. You don’t bench a guy after a game like last Sunday. If Allen sucks again, by halftime that crowd is going to turn on him. I hope for everyone’s sake Allen plays well. I guess we shall see.

that's the whole thing right there.  he hasn't played in a game in a month.  the team is (for lack of a better word, on a high from the last game) and marrone is gonna have the jags defense in 100% attack mode.

 

if allen goes out there and struggles,  he faces....

1. getting hurt again

2.  a nasty crowd

3. losing his 1st game back...at home

4. he loses all support of his team, who will not be giving their all for him  going forward.

4. will bear the weight of ending the season in front of the fans

 

this does not give him a boost in his development by getting all the snaps.  his development could go horribly in the wrong direction.

at this moment there is absolutely no argument that supports him giving us the best chance to win.

[billsfan1959]

10 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

that's the whole thing right there.  he hasn't played in a game in a month.  the team is (for lack of a better word, on a high from the last game) and marrone is gonna have the jags defense in 100% attack mode.

 

if allen goes out there and struggles,  he faces....

1. getting hurt again

2.  a nasty crowd

3. losing his 1st game back...at home

4. he loses all support of his team, who will not be giving their all for him  going forward.

4. will bear the weight of ending the season in front of the fans

 

this does not give him a boost in his development by getting all the snaps.  his development could go horribly in the wrong direction.

at this moment there is absolutely no argument that supports him giving us the best chance to win.

1. Every QB faces that every game

2. At home?

3. Or, maybe a win in his first game back

4. Pure speculation with absolutely no foundation

4. They are at 3-7 and, realistically, their season is over - and he hasn't played in over a month (they were 2-3 when he went down). I'm thinking that burden is pretty well distributed.

 

What evidence do you have that Allen is going to psychologically crumble and his development stunted because of some adversity? Seriously, what specific evidence, in regard to Allen, are you basing this on?

Edited November 18, 2018 by billsfan1959

[billsredneck1]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

1. Every QB faces that every game

2. At home?

3. Or, maybe a win in his first game back

4. Pure speculation with absolutely no foundation

4. They are at 3-7 and, realistically, their season is over - and he hasn't played in over a month. I'm thinking that burden is pretty well distributed.

 

What evidence do you have that Allen is going to psychologically crumble and his development stunted because of some adversity? Seriously, what specific evidence, in regard to Allen, are you basing this on?

i didn't state any of that based on evidence or fact.   however, it for sure is a 50% possibility to go either way.  he does not NEED to start this next game.

 

i'd really love to know how the players' council feels about it. if i was a player, i would want to repeat the jets game for sure.

[1st&ten]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

boo

 

Ha---it was a joke

[simpleman]

18 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I can’t wrap my head around anybody thinking Barkley is a waste of time. What if he just was good? Good enough to let us be good? What if Barkley just matched up well with this system and Dabol? The light comes on at different times for guys and last Sunday was the closest thing we have seen to real passing in a very long time. There is no reason to bench Barkley now. Make him show us last week was a fluke. If Barkley keeps playing well, then keep playing him. If he stinks. Put Allen in. 

 

Allen is not going anywhere. There is no rush here. We are going to get plenty of time to see him and he should have sat all this year anyway. Allen will probably never be good. He wasn’t good in college and has been terrible so far. If Barkley is good, that takes the pressure off of the Allen situation. If they somehow both end up being good, then we are in incredible shape. We could trade one of them, or better yet have 2 good QBs for a change. Play Barkley against Jacksonville. If he struggles, you just play Allen and never look back. If Barkley lights it up again, then see where it goes. Barkley isn’t 38 years old. If he ends up being a very good QB, we could potentially get 10 more years out of him. Im not saying he will end up being good, I just want to find out. Give Barkley at least 1 more start. This team was on pace to be the worst offense in NFL history. Barkley got 41 out of them. Only the Bills would be dumb enough to bench a guy after that. There is no harm in starting Barkley 1 more time. Allen isn’t ready yet anyway. Play Barkley until he sucks. We have plenty of time to learn about Allen. 

As a fan who has endured 18 years of mediocrity I finally enjoyed a game. I would like to give the team and Barkley the chance to prove whether that game was a fluke. 

Allen was suppose to sit and learn this year. That was even said to be the plan and the "process" for those that actually believed in it. He started early, not because he earned it, or showed he was ready. He started prematurely because the process was so flawed that he was the only choice other than Peterman. He showed in those games that he started just how raw and unprepared he still was.  The sacks, the interceptions, the incompletions, the inaccuracy, the poor decision making. The stats for games he played for the Bills show just how bad he was. While the sparkling stats for Barkley's one game with the Bills show a very different story. Let's find out if it was a fluke or not. As most everyone agrees, a game or two will not make or break an already broken season. There will still be plenty of games this year for Allen to be further evaluated if it was simply a fluke game.

 Maybe, just maybe, Allen will someday be ready and actually have the potential to be a quality QB. He showed that the time was not here for him yet in his previous starts. 

 Like everyone I loved what I saw of of the rookie guard in one game. In one game the rookie WR who had speed, but not good ball skills in his previous started to show flashes the last game. The team is about more than just the QB, it is a whole group of players that need to be evaluated. If Allen comes in and looks as bad as he did in his previous games before he was injured, how can we properly evaluate the speedy rookie, the rookie guard and the newly acquired player who shined on offense in that one game. Yes, this season is  effectively over already,  but there is plenty of time this year to evaluate the supporting players on offense and see if Barkley's one great game was a fluke. Maybe even spend a couple games tweaking the supporting players on offense for next year before we spend all our efforts on giving Allen the chance to "grow under fire" for a couple of late year meaningless games. And maybe sitting a couple more games to let the Bills build a better group of offensive players that will give him a better chance in his future development would be in his best interest.

 Unlike others here I do not want to spend the remaining part of the season seeing preseason quality play from the Bills. It is bad enough seeing preseason games while the team weeds out players and gives the players the chance to learn and grow under fire. We accept that trade off. That is what the preseason is for.

 But having to see 10+  more games of preseason during the real season and no real season is just not acceptable to most reasonable fans of the game.

 Things worked with Barkley. Why not give the team and Barkley a couple of games to see if they click?

Edited November 18, 2018 by simpleman

[billsfan1959]

27 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

i didn't state any of that based on evidence or fact.   however, it for sure is a 50% possibility to go either way.  he does not NEED to start this next game.

 

i'd really love to know how the players' council feels about it. if i was a player, i would want to repeat the jets game for sure.

Apparently, the coaching staff disagrees with you.

[Albany,n.y.]

20 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

This is a weakness for McDermott that shows up repeatedly. 

 

He should start Barkely because the Bills kicked butt behind Barkely. It is that simple.

 

Barkely should be able to prove it was either a fluke, or not. The team deserves that.

 

Instead they will start Allen for no other reason other than they drafted him.

 

How is the team supposed to be positive and stoked when they know they finally had a tremendous victory and in response the coaches pulled the starting QB?

 

What if Allen does the most likely thing, and struggles? What if it is so bad they have to pull him? Then he is behind the 8 ball if you ask me. They are risking that for no good enough reason.

 

This staff paints themselves into corners where the only possible non-disaster outcome is that their plan goes exactly the way they envision.

 

So lets hope Allen does great because if he doesn't we will have a better playing QB sitting on the bench just because the coach says so.

 

And the team and us fans will never know for sure if Barkley was a fluke or not.

 

If Barkely starts and does great, then there is no down side. If he starts and flops, then we have Allen and we put him in next time. The only down side this way is that Allen loses a game of practice.

 

If Allen starts and does great it will be the first time, and it will be great. But it is unlikely. And if he starts and flops badly then you have all kinds of trouble. 

 

The decision is easy and as usual with the QB spot  the coaching staff  made the wrong one.

 

 

 

Will all you Allen skeptics shut up if Allen proves you wrong, or will we continue to see this nonsense for the next decade?  

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 hour ago, tcampbell104 said:

what color is the sun in your world

I wouldn't know I live in Western New York

[dayman]

Our season is over and there is a 6 page thread discussing starting Barkley off the street over developing Allen.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, Bakin said:

I agree with OP. 

We don’t know what we have with Josh, true...but we also don’t know what we have with Matt. 

Matt came in and earned the right for a 2nd start. 

 

Although it’s very unlikely - MAYBE things are clicking on for Barkley now. He was almost a unanimous 1st overall pick early in his senior year. Didn’t happen that way but he was highly touted. Maybe HE is the guy. 

 

 

 

........no way did I EVER expect him to show up like he did........then again, he is well traveled over the last six years........I'd start him again.....Josh needs reps but not repairs......this talk of signing Barkley to a backup deal is a "bit premature" after only one game IMO....

[Foxx]

17 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Barkley was an all world high school player. Player of the year. And set records at one of the most storied high school programs in the nation. Then he was recruted heavily and went to a big time school in USC. Started all 4 years against top notch competition and would have been a top 15 pick if he came out before his injury. Barkley is accurate, throws with anticipation, gives his receivers a chance and is very smart.

 

Allen was not recruited at all and went to Wyoming. He wasnt even good against inferior competition. Allen should have dominated that conference and he didn’t even come close to that. All he has at this point is a strong arm and mobility.

 

Just because the Bills were dumb enough to take this guy at 7, doesn’t mean he should be good. What part of any of this, tells you Allen should be better then Barkley. At every level Barkley has been better. Now in the same exact offense, with the same players Barkley was much better. What are we really looking at here?

i completely agree with all your logic to this point in the thread. it is very sound reasoning but there is another argument that can be just as sound.

 

at 3-7 the season is essentially over. starting Allen is not the worst thing that could happen and actually is probably one of the better ways to finish out the season being that it is lost anyways. first, we will be able to see if he makes any progress by the end of the year and should have a good handle on whether or not we think we  need to address the QB position again. if it is deemed that we may need to reevaluate the QB position, Barkley should get the opportunity as he is not going anywhere. he has displayed enough to at least have a roster spot for the foreseeable future.

 

i'm not sold on Allen either, but we have to find out if he is it or not if we are to ever leave this purgatory we have found ourselves in for last 18 years.

[Putin]

13 hours ago, ganesh said:

How do you tell that to the 52 other players on the roster.  The Bills are officially *NOT* out of the playoff race (even if it is a 1% shot) and players are looking to get Wins.  Will they give the same confidence and put in 100% effort with Allen knowing that he may not be the better QB at this time.   I agree that it is important for the rookie to get live game experience, but Beane has defended every time that we are  *NOT* Tanking

You make it sound as if Allen does NOT have a W under his belt , and if he starts that is a guaranteed loss , the players SHOULD give a 100% effort no matter who’s behind the center and ( IMO ) the ones who don’t maybe should NOT be on this roaster next year !!!

[LABILLBACKER]

21 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Starting Barkley would be a complete waste of time. It's the same kind of shortsighteness that has held the franchise back for far too long and I am happy to see that they didn't fall into this trap sitting at 3-7.

Absolutely couldn't agree more. We have made the investment of a first-round quarterback and you have to start finding out whether he's the guy or not. I'm grateful we found Barkley and he's on this team if it no worst a backup, and I'm sure he'll get a chance down the road.

[Just Joshin']

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

........no way did I EVER expect him to show up like he did........then again, he is well traveled over the last six years........I'd start him again.....Josh needs reps but not repairs......this talk of signing Barkley to a backup deal is a "bit premature" after only one game IMO....

So you are not sure he is worthy of a 2019 contract but you would start him over the player who will be here next year and needs reps?

[CircleTheWagons99]

Starting Barkley is a waste of time, according to some, but according to those same people TT should have been brought back??? Please explain this. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

19 minutes ago, Just Joshin' said:

So you are not sure he is worthy of a 2019 contract but you would start him over the player who will be here next year and needs reps?

 

 

.....the OL did play better and provide protection.....Shady was able to finally run which certainly negates automatic stacking of the box.......if Josh is 101% healthy, those two factors would certainly make a difference for a better environment to work in.....Barkley and 2019 have no bearing for me yet, strictly opinion......what would be your call?............

[26CornerBlitz]

30 minutes ago, CircleTheWagons99 said:

Starting Barkley is a waste of time, according to some, but according to those same people TT should have been brought back??? Please explain this. 

 

You are conflating two scenarios that are completely unrelated with one that could have happened during the offseason and the other in week 12 with a prized rookie QB drafted in the top ten with the team siting at 3-7.   It's an incongruent comparison.

Edited November 18, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[PlayoffsPlease]

The main key, is that Peterman won't be starting or coming in.  This alone will elevate team morale significantly, regardless of who else takes snaps at QB. 

 

[CircleTheWagons99]

2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

You are conflating two scenarios that are completely unrelated with one that could have happened during the offseason and the other in week 12 with a prized rookie QB drafted in the top ten with the steam siting at 3-7.   It's an incongruent comparison.

Thing is, the Bills have been wasting time starting TT since half way through year two but giving Barkley until he loses, maybe One more game, is a waste of time. Which is what im talking about. Not scenarios. But then again im talking to Mr Right here so.... TT cannot be bad mouthed.