Barkley should start and lose or keep the job. Nuance, emotion, morale are important.

[transplantbillsfan]

10 hours ago, Warcodered said:

That would be how I found myself here yeah. But I do try to keep that in mind and be objective.

 

No they could of decided to start him from the beginning and sure some people would of complained with how raw he's been seen as but it's not like he had an established starter that he was leap frogging over. You yourself said he'd beat out both of them in the preseason. It's hardly a stretch to go from that to neither of them being able to keep the job from him this far in. I mean this season wasn't really about winning, this season is clearly about the seasons that follow it.

 

I absolutely acknowledge that I thought Allen should have been named the starter immediately, but it was purely because of MY OWN feelings that McCarron and Peterman were utterly inferior competition.

 

But just because I was right, I don't then also think that McDermott and Beane also felt the same way. They couldn't see the forest for the trees. 

 

McDermott started Peterman because he thought he was better than Allen and because he thought he gave the 2018 Buffalo Bills the best chance to win.

 

He was a complete moron for thinking that, of course.

 

But he thought it, nonetheless.

10 hours ago, Skins Malone said:

Now I've heard it all.  We need to start Barkley because of the Boo factor lol.

 

Oh boy.

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan
inappropriate language

[Warcodered]

10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

See, here's what you're not getting... playing Allen at home is riskier than playing him on the road.

 

On the road, they always boo the opposition.

 

At home, when fans boo, it's a true test of a player's mettle because you know you're playing terribly.

 

It's a fact of human physiology that your brain isn't fully developed until you reach 23. It's probably the biggest underlying reason that people make the argument that rookies should sit and learn. 80,000 jeering fans can maybe push you over the edge at such a young, impressionable age when you're so used to being the Apple of everyone's eye, as most of these NFL starting QBs are.

 

Barkley starting at home--potentially sucking and getting booed at followed by Allen starting on the road in Miami with everyone automatically booing--is less of a risk than Allen getting his 1st start in a month and a half and possibly shaking off some rust against a great defense.

 

Fans will boo terrible play, no matter who's under center. Do you watch games on mute?

I really doubt Allen is that mentally fragile, he had no offers for college and had to claw his way up to Wyoming and to the notice of NFL scouts. When he made it to Wyoming in his very first start he broke his collarbone and was out for the season. He came back the next year and played so well that even though he was Wyoming Mountain West Conference QB NFL scouts came to see him as a round 1 pick. So no even if the game goes so bad he gets booed by his home crowd(which I think is less likely than you might think) I don't think he'll crumple like a tin can.

10 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I absolutely acknowledge that I thought Allen should have been named the starter immediately, but it was purely because of MY OWN feelings that McCarron and Peterman were utterly inferior competition.

 

But just because I was right, I don't then also think that McDermott and Beane also felt the same way. They couldn't see the forest for the trees. 

 

McDermott started Peterman because he thought he was better than Allen and because he thought he gave the 2018 Buffalo Bills the best chance to win.

 

He was a complete moron for thinking that, of course.

 

But he thought it, nonetheless.

 

Oh boy.

 

 

Yes from what we've seen McDermot clearly got suckered in by Preseason Peterman. Still though while it was arguable that he played better than Allen in preseason, he didn't exactly set the world on fire. I just have a hard time believing he thought Peterman in his 2nd year would keep Allen at bay for the whole season. As for McCarron he's a bit more arguable for them thinking he might be able to do it but still not super concrete. Someone on here said something about them wanting to get Anderson in the offseason. Which if that's true he had more of the track record to maybe hold onto it for the year though that would of probably been a best case scenario.

[transplantbillsfan]

9 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I really doubt Allen is that mentally fragile, he had no offers for college and had to claw his way up to Wyoming and to the notice of NFL scouts. When he made it to Wyoming in his very first start he broke his collarbone and was out for the season. He came back the next year and played so well that even though he was Wyoming Mountain West Conference QB NFL scouts came to see him as a round 1 pick. So no even if the game goes so bad he gets booed by his home crowd(which I think is less likely than you might think) I don't think he'll crumple like a tin can.

 

I don't think Allen is mentally fragile. Look at my track record posting about him. That's one of the reasons I grew to like him.

 

But facts are facts. Once you start Allen, you can't bench him until you suspect he's a bust.

 

You weren't around since you're new to this Bills fan thing, but we've seen a bad mishandling of a 1st round rookie QB in Buffalo recently.

 

If you start Allen and he absolutely sucks, all you can do is hope he can shake off rust and rise to the occasion. Barkley could afford another week or two or 3 of growing and adapting and developing.

 

And for the record, I don't think Allen is going to suck when he plays. And I don't think he has sucked.

 

Then again, I didn't think we'd get absolutely demolished by the Colts or the Mack-less Bears at home.

 

It's riskier starting Allen next week. Maybe not a huge risk, but definitely riskier.

Just now, Skins Malone said:

Really...and what was your much more complex argument? Please explain.  

 

No need. Read my previous posts. Hell, you don't have to go back further than less than a week ago... some of which I've said in this thread.

 

Why do I have to restate something I've already stated?

[Skins Malone]

11 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I don't think Allen is mentally fragile. Look at my track record posting about him. That's one of the reasons I grew to like him.

 

But facts are facts. Once you start Allen, you can't bench him until you suspect he's a bust.

 

You weren't around since you're new to this Bills fan thing, but we've seen a bad mishandling of a 1st round rookie QB in Buffalo recently.

 

If you start Allen and he absolutely sucks, all you can do is hope he can shake off rust and rise to the occasion. Barkley could afford another week or two or 3 of growing and adapting and developing.

 

And for the record, I don't think Allen is going to suck when he plays. And I don't think he has sucked.

 

Then again, I didn't think we'd get absolutely demolished by the Colts or the Mack-less Bears at home.

 

It's riskier starting Allen next week. Maybe not a huge risk, but definitely riskier.

If you dont think hes going to suck when he plays then what's the issue.  So two or three weeks of sitting while Barkley plays is gonna magically make Josh Allen grow and develop?  You are talking  about brain development and how boos with affect Allen when there is no evidence that this is the case.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Skins Malone

[Warcodered]

28 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I don't think Allen is mentally fragile. Look at my track record posting about him. That's one of the reasons I grew to like him.

 

But facts are facts. Once you start Allen, you can't bench him until you suspect he's a bust.

 

You weren't around since you're new to this Bills fan thing, but we've seen a bad mishandling of a 1st round rookie QB in Buffalo recently.

 

If you start Allen and he absolutely sucks, all you can do is hope he can shake off rust and rise to the occasion. Barkley could afford another week or two or 3 of growing and adapting and developing.

 

And for the record, I don't think Allen is going to suck when he plays. And I don't think he has sucked.

 

Then again, I didn't think we'd get absolutely demolished by the Colts or the Mack-less Bears at home.

 

It's riskier starting Allen next week. Maybe not a huge risk, but definitely riskier.

 

No need. Read my previous posts. Hell, you don't have to go back further than less than a week ago... some of which I've said in this thread.

 

Why do I have to restate something I've already stated?

They've already started Allen if he's healthy and they don't start him then that would be them benching him. Also this is exactly when they can do this Jacksonville has what the strongest defense the Bills have left to face. Even if he struggles here there's a great chance for him to rebound in the games that follow.

[LeGOATski]

The OP is absolutely right. It's the natural progression of QBs.

 

The same progression applied at the beginning of the season. Don't start the rookie when another QB clearly looks better. Let the vet QB play it out, so that no one questions the decision when the rookie eventually starts.

 

Barkley performing well has reset the order. They need to go through that same progression again.

[26CornerBlitz]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

See, here's what you're not getting... playing Allen at home is riskier than playing him on the road.

 

On the road, they always boo the opposition.

 

At home, when fans boo, it's a true test of a player's mettle because you know you're playing terribly.

 

It's a fact of human physiology that your brain isn't fully developed until you reach 23. It's probably the biggest underlying reason that people make the argument that rookies should sit and learn. 80,000 jeering fans can maybe push you over the edge at such a young, impressionable age when you're so used to being the Apple of everyone's eye, as most of these NFL starting QBs are.

 

Barkley starting at home--potentially sucking and getting booed at followed by Allen starting on the road in Miami with everyone automatically booing--is less of a risk than Allen getting his 1st start in a month and a half and possibly shaking off some rust against a great defense.

 

Fans will boo terrible play, no matter who's under center. Do you watch games on mute?

 

WTH?!? None of this makes a bit of sense.  The fans who have any sense at all are rooting for Allen to succeed and understand he's the future.  The team isn't factoring any of this into the decision and they should be gone if they do. 

[Bakin]

I agree with OP. 

We don’t know what we have with Josh, true...but we also don’t know what we have with Matt. 

Matt came in and earned the right for a 2nd start. 

 

Although it’s very unlikely - MAYBE things are clicking on for Barkley now. He was almost a unanimous 1st overall pick early in his senior year. Didn’t happen that way but he was highly touted. Maybe HE is the guy. 

 

 

[billsfan1959]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

See, here's what you're not getting... playing Allen at home is riskier than playing him on the road.

 

On the road, they always boo the opposition.

 

At home, when fans boo, it's a true test of a player's mettle because you know you're playing terribly.

 

It's a fact of human physiology that your brain isn't fully developed until you reach 23. It's probably the biggest underlying reason that people make the argument that rookies should sit and learn. 80,000 jeering fans can maybe push you over the edge at such a young, impressionable age when you're so used to being the Apple of everyone's eye, as most of these NFL starting QBs are.

 

Barkley starting at home--potentially sucking and getting booed at followed by Allen starting on the road in Miami with everyone automatically booing--is less of a risk than Allen getting his 1st start in a month and a half and possibly shaking off some rust against a great defense.

 

Fans will boo terrible play, no matter who's under center. Do you watch games on mute?

While it is true that the brain is still developing into early adulthood, there is no scientific evidence indicating a specific point of maturity, from cognitive or behavioral perspectives at the general population level, much less applied to any given individual. Also, what sources to you have to substantiate it is the "biggest underlying reason" for the argument that rookies should sit? 

[BadLandsMeanie]

16 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

One thing I’ve always thought in respect of the Buffalo Bills is that “nuance is important “..

Laugh it up pal.

 

All kinds of odd stuff happens that signal problems with the way players relate to management. Including we have people who quit the team in the middle of a game.

 

That one is something that would seem to be a stretch in an over-the -top comedy screwball sports movie.

But it really happened to the Bills.

 

That stuff means something in my world!

 

And putting in a cub QB to learn on the job the game after the players had their best game in years is bad for morale and leads to a sense of futility and that is nuance

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

4 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Laugh it up pal.

 

All kinds of odd stuff happens that signal problems with the way players relate to management. Including we have people who quit the team in the middle of a game.

 

That one is something that would seem to be a stretch in an over-the -top comedy screwball sports movie.

But it really happened to the Bills.

 

That stuff means something in my world!

 

And putting in a cub QB to learn on the job the game after the players had their best game in years is bad for morale and leads to a sense of futility and that is nuance

 

100% conjecture and misunderstanding what teams do in the stretch of losing seasons.  The Bills are sitting at 3-7 and have begun a youth movement towards 2019 and beyond.  It's exactly why the focus is on Allen's development along with other young players who will hopefully play key roles in the ascension of the franchise as a perennial playoff contender that competes for championships. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[BadLandsMeanie]

16 hours ago, The Red King said:

You have to read between the lines with posts like this.  Most of the people saying start Barkly are also people that have already decided Allen is a bust.  In their eyes starting Allen is pointless because he will never be our future QB.  And since he won't be, in their eyes it's about evaluating Barkly to see if he'll be our starter, or if we'll need to draft another QB.  Arguments about developing and/or evaluating Allen fall on deaf ears because they've already written him off.

 

That's why you have threads like this.

I haven't written off Allen

 

I believe that coaching and practicing help players develop

 

Everybody else says that no, not at all, they must play to learn

 

Then why do they have coaches and practices? Your position, and to be fair it is shared by almost everybody, makes no sense

 

I think hurrying Allen back out there before he can think fast enough will get him hurt some more and I say that is a VERY stupid thing to do.

 

So of course that is just what the Bills will do.

 

Because the Bills are stupid and will never stop being stupid until after I'm dead because I am in the hell of being a lifelong fan of the stupidest team in sports. 

 

Oh well you can't have everything! 

 

I'll just make my motto "Respect the Stupidity" and be happy!

 

15 hours ago, folz said:

I don't think there is even a slim chance that McD could lose the locker room if he starts Josh over Barkley or lose morale or whatever. First, McD has held this team together through the benching of Tyrod last year and some stretches of blow-out loses. And this team is close and really has a team first mentality, with great leadership.

 

Second, the players know that their team is flawed this year and although they will prepare to win each and every one of the next 6 games, they know, at this point in the season, that the playoffs are pretty much out for them. They also see practice. They see the difference between Josh's arm and Barkley's/Peterman's arm. They know that their hopes moving forward are in Josh progressing and becoming a franchise QB. Why do you think Shady bonded so quickly with him? He sees Josh's potential, and therefore the potential for the team going forward. So, unless you're planning to retire this year (and you're not a guy that cares about the franchise after you're gone like Kyle), I would think the players want him to get that experience too, so next year they can be a much better team.

 

The players are aware of the same things we are, even though they look at the season one week/game at a time. They know the team was cap-strapped this year and has lots of money next year, and another draft. Most of these guys will either be here next season, or hope that they will be here next season. And all of those young players feel like they have a lot of career ahead of themselves, so they can easily take a view of getting better for next year. 

 

And Barkley has been here not quite 3 weeks yet, so there is no personal element for teammates wanting him to start, like there was for Tyrod last year or during the Flutie/Johnson debacle, where it divided the team. And yes, Matt played well, but that was just one game. The players know all too well that guys can have great days without being great players, sometimes the ball just bounces that way. Plus Barkley isn't either a promising young guy that hasn't gotten a shot yet or a QB who has already proven it in the league before. So that one game, might be just that one game. Where as Josh is a #7 overall pick with a cannon arm. If I were a player at this point in the season, I don't think I would have any issues with the coaches starting Josh over Matt.

 

So, unless the guy's on the team think Josh is a bust already (and I bet that number is zero who think so), I would surmise that they are just fine with the decision.

 

If they are lucky most players get to play 4 seasons mostly because the beating is so bad for the body.

 

Throwing one away to develop the GM's throw of the dice is demoralizing for many

 

You don't develop a winning culture by losing

[HOUSE]

I agree with BLM. Josh can replace MB should he struggle...anything else is dumb

 

LOL, you don't score 41 points then switch QBs

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by HOUSE

[BadLandsMeanie]

15 hours ago, 1st&ten said:

 

Play Allen so Barkley can sit on the sidelines & learn then he'll be ready for next year.

boo

[billsfan1959]

5 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I haven't written off Allen

 

I believe that coaching and practicing help players develop

 

Everybody else says that no, not at all, they must play to learn

 

Then why do they have coaches and practices? Your position, and to be fair it is shared by almost everybody, makes no sense

 

I think hurrying Allen back out there before he can think fast enough will get him hurt some more and I say that is a VERY stupid thing to do.

 

So of course that is just what the Bills will do.

 

Because the Bills are stupid and will never stop being stupid until after I'm dead because I am in the hell of being a lifelong fan of the stupidest team in sports. 

 

Oh well you can't have everything! 

 

I'll just make my motto "Respect the Stupidity" and be happy!

 

Usually, when I hear someone give an opinion and declare everyone else is stupid, it is just the exact opposite. 

[Mat68]

 Barkley completed 15 passes.  He wasnt Aaron Rodgers.  The Jets are a dumpster fire.  Allen healthy gives Buffalo the best chance to win.  He led them to 2 victories over probable playoff teams.  Imo he was on his way to beating the Texans before getting hurt.  

[BadLandsMeanie]

11 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Usually, when I hear someone give an opinion and declare everyone else is stupid, it is just the exact opposite. 

I'm not declaring anything about everybody else.

 

I said it quite clearly about the Buffalo Bills.

 

And it is true. There is a verifiable record of the Buffalo Bills doing dumb things that are counter-productive for going on 20 years now, which is why they always lose.

 

It isn't a "curse". 

 

That isn't rational. That is superstition. That is an excuse.

 

The Buffalo Bills have arguably been the worst team in football for coming up on 20 years now because of the decisions they made, period.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

18 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I'm not declaring anything about everybody else.

 

I said it quite clearly about the Buffalo Bills.

 

And it is true. There is a verifiable record of the Buffalo Bills doing dumb things that are counter-productive for going on 20 years now, which is why they always lose.

 

It isn't a "curse". 

 

That isn't rational. That is superstition. That is an excuse.

 

The Buffalo Bills have arguably been the worst team in football for coming up on 20 years now because of the decisions they made, period.

 

What you're advocating would be a continuation of the very dumb things you decry.

Edited November 18, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz

[tcampbell104]

1 hour ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Laugh it up pal.

 

All kinds of odd stuff happens that signal problems with the way players relate to management. Including we have people who quit the team in the middle of a game.

 

That one is something that would seem to be a stretch in an over-the -top comedy screwball sports movie.

But it really happened to the Bills.

 

That stuff means something in my world!

 

And putting in a cub QB to learn on the job the game after the players had their best game in years is bad for morale and leads to a sense of futility and that is nuance

 

 

what color is the sun in your world

[billsfan1959]

26 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

I'm not declaring anything about everybody else.

 

I said it quite clearly about the Buffalo Bills.

 

And it is true. There is a verifiable record of the Buffalo Bills doing dumb things that are counter-productive for going on 20 years now, which is why they always lose.

 

It isn't a "curse". 

 

That isn't rational. That is superstition. That is an excuse.

 

The Buffalo Bills have arguably been the worst team in football for coming up on 20 years now because of the decisions they made, period.

 

 

What happened with this team prior to last year has absolutely no bearing on the current front office or coaching staff - only your own personal frustration.