TakeYouToTasker Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) On 11/23/2018 at 3:16 PM, Thurmal34 said: Every American has the right to vote. Expand Every American (save minors and convicted felons) has the "right" to vote, but that certainly doesn't mean that those who are uneducated, uninformed, generally disinterested, or have no stake in the size and scope of government should be encouraged to inflict their stupidity/ignorance/apathy on the rest of us. You didn't answer my question: what's the merit of those types of individuals voting? Quote Are you seriously saying there should be a qualification test? Expand It's important to draw distinctions between what is, and what I believe would be a better system. The above (all Americans enjoying the franchise) is what currently exists, and I support the prosecution of anyone violating the law by disenfranchising others who have enjoy the privilege of voting under our laws. I believe a better system would be an absolute meritocracy in which there was no birthright citizenship for anyone, and the franchise was a privilege which one has to earn. Citizenship would guarantee the right to vote, and no person would be denied the right to become a citizen. Citizenship would require military service (accommodations made for the physically disabled), or those whom have owned property or a business for more than 10 years and are net federal tax payers; both would then be required to pass a test on US civics. Edited November 23, 2018 by TakeYouToTasker
DC Tom Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 2:30 PM, TakeYouToTasker said: Explain the merits of votes being cast by individuals whom are uneducated, uninformed, generally disinterested, and in some cases who have no stake in the size or scope of government? Expand They vote Democrat. Duh. On 11/23/2018 at 3:25 PM, Thurmal34 said: Which is absolutely ridiculous. Expand Read Thucydides.
Thurmal34 Posted November 23, 2018 Author Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 3:37 PM, TakeYouToTasker said: Every American (save minors and convicted felons) has the "right" to vote, but that certainly doesn't mean that those who are uneducated, uninformed, generally disinterested, or have no stake in the size and scope of government should be encouraged to inflict their stupidity/ignorance/apathy on the rest of us. You didn't answer my question: what's the merit of those types of individuals voting? It's important to draw distinctions between what is, and what I believe would be a better system. The above (all Americans enjoying the franchise) is what currently exists, and I support the prosecution of anyone violating the law by disenfranchising others who have enjoy the privilege of voting under our laws. I believe a better system would be an absolute meritocracy in which there was no birthright citizenship for anyone, and the franchise was a privilege which one has to earn. Citizenship would guarantee the right to vote, and no person would be denied the right to become a citizen. Citizenship would require military service (accommodations made for the physically disabled), or those whom have owned property or a business for more than 10 years and are net federal tax payers; both would then be required to pass a test on US civics. Expand I can dig most of that, but no dice on the owning property part. That means only those with means can vote. Sorry, that’s not America. Maybe if you don’t like it, leave? (tongue planted firmly in cheek). Hey, there is always the mail order steak racket! On 11/23/2018 at 3:26 PM, 3rdnlng said: And you are absolutely wrong. Expand You certainly have a right to your opinion. I respect that.
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 4:10 PM, Thurmal34 said: I can dig most of that, but no dice on the owning property part. That means only those with means can vote. Sorry, that’s not America. Expand No, it doesn't mean that only those with means can vote. Military service is open to all, and even if you have property or a business you're still required to pass a civics test, be required to be a resident for 10 years, and still required to be a net federal tax payer. No other requirements would be necessary (I'm open to arguments about age restrictions and criminals). Only those with a direct stake in the size, scope, and role of government should have a say in how it's run.
Trump_is_Mentally_fit Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 Can a person that "owns" property vote if they owe the bank the money for the property? How would that work?
3rdnlng Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 5:46 PM, Tiberius said: Can a person that "owns" property vote if they owe the bank the money for the property? How would that work? Expand Don't worry about that, you'd never pass the civics test. You're assured of missing all of the Federal Reserve questions.
BeginnersMind Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) On 11/23/2018 at 2:29 PM, DC Tom said: So there's a minimum acceptable amount of tampering allowed before "the sanctity of the vote" is violated? How much tampering is the limit? Does that include Republican gerrymandering? Expand Yes. There are limits to what is tolerable. Just like there are limits to how much we are ok being inconvenienced in airport security. How safe medication is. How much pollution is acceptable. Vote tampering is a red meat red herring issue. On 11/23/2018 at 6:06 PM, 3rdnlng said: Don't worry about that, you'd never pass the civics test. You're assured of missing all of the Federal Reserve questions. Expand As long as he answers that the Fed is a Rothchild pawn of the Deep State, he’s sure to pass. Edited November 23, 2018 by BeginnersMind
DC Tom Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 6:37 PM, BeginnersMind said: Yes. There are limits to what is tolerable. Just like there are limits to how much we are ok being inconvenienced in airport security. How safe medication is. How much pollution is acceptable. Vote tampering is a red meat red herring issue. Expand Yes...BUT, Democrats have invested so much into "the sanctity of the vote," that what do they consider that limit? Because it seems very fungible.
Deranged Rhino Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 3:16 PM, Thurmal34 said: Goalposts moved. Try not to change the subject! Expand It's not moving the goalposts. It's using your own logic to show how partisan and shallow your beliefs on this matter truly are. You have nothing serious to offer on this topic but partisan blathering.
Doc Brown Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 5:46 PM, Tiberius said: Can a person that "owns" property vote if they owe the bank the money for the property? How would that work? Expand Yes. You register to vote and then vote at your local polling place come election day.
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 6:37 PM, BeginnersMind said: Yes. There are limits to what is tolerable. Just like there are limits to how much we are ok being inconvenienced in airport security. How safe medication is. How much pollution is acceptable. Vote tampering is a red meat red herring issue. Expand Did you really just assert that there are acceptable levels of election fraud? That's an incredibly stupid argument to make.
Deranged Rhino Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 7:22 PM, TakeYouToTasker said: Did you really just assert that there are acceptable levels of election fraud? That's an incredibly stupid argument to make. Expand He's not a real person. He's here to slide and get paid.
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 7:24 PM, Deranged Rhino said: He's not a real person. He's here to slide and get paid. Expand I'm aware. The response wasn't so much for him as it was to slap that argument in general. Some other moron is bound to pick up that sword, so I wanted to preemptively slap it. 1
Deranged Rhino Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 7:26 PM, TakeYouToTasker said: I'm aware. The response wasn't so much for him as it was to slap that argument in general. Some other moron is bound to pick up that sword, so I wanted to preemptively slap it. Expand True. True.
BeginnersMind Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 7:22 PM, TakeYouToTasker said: Did you really just assert that there are acceptable levels of election fraud? That's an incredibly stupid argument to make. Expand Oversimplification but there are acceptable limits of bad outcomes vs limits to what we do to prevent them. True in most contexts.
Deranged Rhino Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 Glowing like a radioactive lighthouse.
3rdnlng Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 7:29 PM, BeginnersMind said: Oversimplification but there are acceptable limits of bad outcomes vs limits to what we do to prevent them. True in most contexts. Expand I guess I have to agree with you. It's pretty much like when a spook with a reporters cover got himself killed in a Saudi embassy in Turkey. In the big picture, as far as the Middle East goes with our allies and Iran, it doesn't mean jackshit. So, a few illegal votes vs 10's of millions don't mean all that much.
TakeYouToTasker Posted November 23, 2018 Posted November 23, 2018 You're doubling down on it? Incredibly stupid argument. In a free society constructed on the foundation of natural rights philosophy, the right to self-determination is paramount. There is no acceptable amount of rights violations. Full stop. 1
Trump_is_Mentally_fit Posted November 24, 2018 Posted November 24, 2018 On 11/23/2018 at 7:22 PM, Doc Brown said: Yes. You register to vote and then vote at your local polling place come election day. Expand But the bank really owns the property. And how about renting vs owning? If its smarter to rent, why should someone lose their right to vote? I'm just happy voting rights are expanding and Democrats are making voting access a priority of the party going forward.
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