Is this a playoff team with Tyrod?

[jrober38]

4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Actually, I haven't ignored his NFL career at all. It has been exactly what I said it was: Mediocre. It has led him to where he is now: On his 3rd team in 8 years and riding the bench. Apparently NFL head coaches and General Managers of three teams don't agree with you.

 

BTW, drawing conclusions about a rookie QB from 139 pass attempts is beyond ridiculous.

 

You are the very thing you rail against.

 

Allen has been everything his scouting report said he'd be. He's been the same player for the Bills as he was for Wyoming. Inconsistent accuracy, poor decision making, walks into sacks, tries to escape the pocket too early, doesn't throw with anticipation, etc. That's what we've seen all year with him in a Bills uniform and it's what he showed for 2.5 years at Wyoming.  

 

Josh Allen is not close to being a competent NFL QB yet. He has to improve enormously just to get to the point where he'd be considered average as a starter, let alone getting to the level of a franchise QB who can actually win games.

 

I'm excited to see what he learned by sitting on the bench for a month, watching tape, and learning. Will things slow down against the Jags, or will he be the same skittish QB we saw at the beginning of the season who struggled to throw for 100 yards a game? 

Edited November 16, 2018 by jrober38

[Foxx]

15 hours ago, KzooMike said:

... Is this a playoff team with Taylor?   

who.

the.

*****.

cares.

 

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I can point to only 1 game where we may win instead of lose.  That'd put as at 4-6.  If we lose some close games down the line maybe?  but we're still a sub.500 team at this juncture with him on the team.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, jrober38 said:

 

Yet Taylor's QB Rating was unchanged from 2016 to 2017.....

 

Great...offense still dipped 6 points per game.  Now give Taylor even less talent...is it really impossible to think we wouldn't continue to slide down?

in Taylors last 8 games started between Buffalo/CLE, the offense he was running scored a total of 9 offensive TD's.  Again...it's impossible the trend doesn't continue to go down?

 

**I chose the last 5 of Buffalo's game after his benching in LA and the first 3 games with CLE**

[billsfan1959]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Allen has been everything his scouting report said he'd be. He's been the same player for the Bills as he was for Wyoming. Inconsistent accuracy, poor decision making, walks into sacks, tries to escape the pocket too early, doesn't throw with anticipation, etc. That's what we've seen all year. 

 

Josh Allen is not close to being a competent NFL QB yet. He has to improve enormously just to get to the point where he'd be considered average as a starter, let alone a franchise QB who can actually win games.

 

I'm excited to see what he learned by sitting on the bench for a month, watching tape, and learning. Will things slow down against the Jags, or will he be the same skittish QB we saw at the beginning of the season who struggled to throw for 100 yards a game? 

What he was in college is irrelevant at this point. He will succeed or fail based on what he does in the NFL. Nobody knows what that will be right now. Drawing any long-term conclusions based on 20 quarters of play and 139 attempts is nonsensical. I will wait to see how he progresses the remainder of this season and next year before drawing any difinitive conclusions. As far as Taylor? I wish him well; however, IMO, he is not and was not the answer for this team.

[BuffaloHokie13]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Great...offense still dipped 6 points per game.  Now give Taylor even less talent...is it really impossible to think we wouldn't continue to slide down?

in Taylors last 8 games started between Buffalo/CLE, the offense he was running scored a total of 9 offensive TD's.  Again...it's impossible the trend doesn't continue to go down?

 

**I chose the last 5 of Buffalo's game after his benching in LA and the first 3 games with CLE**

Considering we just ended a streak of over 50 drives starting in our territory without a single TD, I'd take a TD per game!

[Royale with Cheese]

13 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Allen has been everything his scouting report said he'd be. He's been the same player for the Bills as he was for Wyoming. Inconsistent accuracy, poor decision making, walks into sacks, tries to escape the pocket too early, doesn't throw with anticipation, etc. That's what we've seen all year with him in a Bills uniform and it's what he showed for 2.5 years at Wyoming.  

 

Josh Allen is not close to being a competent NFL QB yet. He has to improve enormously just to get to the point where he'd be considered average as a starter, let alone getting to the level of a franchise QB who can actually win games.

 

I'm excited to see what he learned by sitting on the bench for a month, watching tape, and learning. Will things slow down against the Jags, or will he be the same skittish QB we saw at the beginning of the season who struggled to throw for 100 yards a game? 

 

So Taylor as a vet with 3 games this season is too small of a sample size to draw any conclusion but Allen a rookie with 5 games....there's enough there?

 

[blacklabel]

I don't think so, and that's because of the losses of Wood and Incognito and the subsequent OL shuffling they've done. No offense to the current OL but it took until the 10th game (and even more shuffling of players as Ducasse was benched for Teller) for them to get Shady going. A lot of Taylor's success was predicated on the run game being successful from the start and then allowing Taylor to do play-action and take shots down the field in the right situations.

 

His ability to improvise and escape pressure is something he's really good at and it was something that certainly helps him but with the OL struggles, he would've been bailing on the pocket much sooner than normal. That screws with a QBs internal clock and can throw off their timing and whatnot.

 

And before everyone wants to crown Barkley, keep in mind, this is a dude on his fifth team in six seasons. The most playing time he had was 2016 in Chicago where he started 6 games and threw 8 TDs to 14 INTs. The Jets dropped two INTs last Sunday as well. He doesn't have a great arm. He can throw the ball with pretty nice touch and is fairly accurate but you're never really gonna see him zipping the ball into tight windows and while I'm sure he's a confident player, I don't think he's a "carry the team on his back" kinda guy who comes through in clutch situations. He's a decent backup, though. Much better than Peterman and hopefully his experiences with a number of different teams and coaches can be valuable information he can share with Allen. 

[MJS]

How many playoff teams did we have with Tyrod? Only one. Most of Tyrod's time here was spent with a far better oline and better receivers.

 

So no, I think Tyrod would not make a huge difference.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

No

[Royale with Cheese]

21 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

I don't think so, and that's because of the losses of Wood and Incognito and the subsequent OL shuffling they've done. No offense to the current OL but it took until the 10th game (and even more shuffling of players as Ducasse was benched for Teller) for them to get Shady going. A lot of Taylor's success was predicated on the run game being successful from the start and then allowing Taylor to do play-action and take shots down the field in the right situations.

 

His ability to improvise and escape pressure is something he's really good at and it was something that certainly helps him but with the OL struggles, he would've been bailing on the pocket much sooner than normal. That screws with a QBs internal clock and can throw off their timing and whatnot.

 

And before everyone wants to crown Barkley, keep in mind, this is a dude on his fifth team in six seasons. The most playing time he had was 2016 in Chicago where he started 6 games and threw 8 TDs to 14 INTs. The Jets dropped two INTs last Sunday as well. He doesn't have a great arm. He can throw the ball with pretty nice touch and is fairly accurate but you're never really gonna see him zipping the ball into tight windows and while I'm sure he's a confident player, I don't think he's a "carry the team on his back" kinda guy who comes through in clutch situations. He's a decent backup, though. Much better than Peterman and hopefully his experiences with a number of different teams and coaches can be valuable information he can share with Allen. 

 

[CuddyDark]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Well yes, I have seen the last 3 years.

Great in 2015 and 2016 and above average.

 

How does Taylor give us the #1 rushing attack with the absence of Incognito and Wood replaced by Ducasse (benched)/Groy (benched)/Bodine who is simply not good?

McCoy wasn't every good before Taylor or something?

 

It's not about McCoy vs TT it's about the yards TT would average as a runner along with McCoy. TT averaged around 35 rushing yards per game. I'm not doing the math but if we say he adds 200 rush yrd to this point, we'd be top 5 rushing.

1 hour ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

Googled 2017 Buffalo Bills offense and it stated 29th. 

6th in rushing.

[CuddyDark]

1 hour ago, jrober38 said:

 

They just ignore basic stats.

 

It's unbelievable that Bills fans would not be in touch with how historically horrific the offense has been this season.

For all the terrible offense we've seen over the past 15 years, this has been far and away the worst one this franchise has fielded over that time. 

Absolutely agree 100%.

 

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Great...offense still dipped 6 points per game.  Now give Taylor even less talent...is it really impossible to think we wouldn't continue to slide down?

in Taylors last 8 games started between Buffalo/CLE, the offense he was running scored a total of 9 offensive TD's.  Again...it's impossible the trend doesn't continue to go down?

 

**I chose the last 5 of Buffalo's game after his benching in LA and the first 3 games with CLE**

Because they tried to make TT a pocket QB and took away the one thing teams feared in his play. He was more of a scrambler then a planned runner in 2017. 

[dgrochester55]

Conservatively, I would add only the Houston game as a win making the team 4-6     This would put us on the outside of the playoff hunt likely requiring a 5-1 finish.   Besides that, I am not sure which of the other game would have been won.    You could argue that Buffalo has a different game plan with a more established quarterback in the Indy, New England and Chicago games, but I would not assume that those were wins

 

This doesn't mean that I think Taylor is special, You could say the same thing in a scenario where buffalo kept McCarron or possibly even if they signed Anderson or Barkley on week 1.   

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

Absolutely agree 100%.

 

Because they tried to make TT a pocket QB and took away the one thing teams feared in his play. He was more of a scrambler then a planned runner in 2017. 

 

Well that's what they started to do....keep him in the pocket.  Remember the "Make him play QB quote?"  

 

19 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

It's not about McCoy vs TT it's about the yards TT would average as a runner along with McCoy. TT averaged around 35 rushing yards per game. I'm not doing the math but if we say he adds 200 rush yrd to this point, we'd be top 5 rushing.

6th in rushing.

 

You're basing this like we are averaging 0 yards rushing from our QB's this year.  Allen through 6 games had 155 yards rushing....

[CuddyDark]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Well that's what they started to do....keep him in the pocket.  Remember the "Make him play QB quote?"  

 

I thought it was dumb from the start. If you have a thing a player does well do that until you get a franchise player in that position. Yet to be seen if JA is a franchise QB so for me it's another reason I believe this leadership is inept. TT at worst could be the backup and mentor for JA.

[The Red King]

5 hours ago, longtimebillsfan said:

TT would Have given us a chance in all of the Peterman debacles with many fewer turnovers.  The Colts and Texans could have been wins.  5-5 record at this point with TT would have given us a fair chance for a playoff birth.

 

You keep avoiding the question.  Lemmie spell it out.

 

Tyrod, putting up the numbers he did with Cleveland this season, would not have made us a playoff team.  Period.  So, what makes you think he would have done better with this season's Bills then he did with the Browns.

 

Sorry, 2018 Tyrod is not 2017 Tyrod.  TT on this year's Bills, with the loss of three linemen and severe lack of offensive weapons would not have done as well as he did last year...and last year's Tyrod laid an egg against the Saints, and could only put up 9 on CAR.  Not to mention that pitiful display in the JAX against a defense that surrendered far more to PIT and NE.

 

You're romantisizing, looking at less interceptions while assuming the remainder of the offensive production remains the same, and it just doesn't work that way.  Go watch Tyrod's Cleveland starts this year, then look me straight in the eye and tell me he could lead this team to the playoffs.

[Royale with Cheese]

Just now, CuddyDark said:

I thought it was dumb from the start. If you have a thing a player does well do that until you get a franchise player in that position. Yet to be seen if JA is a franchise QB so for me it's another reason I believe this leadership is inept. TT at worst could be the backup and mentor for JA.

 

That quote was from a Raven's defensive player on how to stop Tyrod, not from us.  Same thing a Jets defensive player stated.

Taylor would be a very expensive back up or mentor.  He's making $10 million this year I believe.

[CuddyDark]

9 minutes ago, dgrochester55 said:

Conservatively, I would add only the Houston game as a win making the team 4-6     This would put us on the outside of the playoff hunt likely requiring a 5-1 finish.   Besides that, I am not sure which of the other game would have been won.    You could argue that Buffalo has a different game plan with a more established quarterback in the Indy, New England and Chicago games, but I would not assume that those were wins

 

This doesn't mean that I think Taylor is special, You could say the same thing in a scenario where buffalo kept McCarron or possibly even if they signed Anderson or Barkley on week 1.   

We had the Packers on the ropes too. And in other games I don't think we have as many turnovers so in a close game who knows?

1 minute ago, The Red King said:

 

You keep avoiding the question.  Lemmie spell it out.

 

Tyrod, putting up the numbers he did with Cleveland this season, would not have made us a playoff team.  Period.  So, what makes you think he would have done better with this season's Bills then he did with the Browns.

 

Sorry, 2018 Tyrod is not 2017 Tyrod.  TT on this year's Bills, with the loss of three linemen and severe lack of offensive weapons would not have done as well as he did last year...and last year's Tyrod laid an egg against the Saints, and could only put up 9 on CAR.  Not to mention that pitiful display in the JAX against a defense that surrendered far more to PIT and NE.

 

You're romantisizing, looking at less interceptions while assuming the remainder of the offensive production remains the same, and it just doesn't work that way.  Go watch Tyrod's Cleveland starts this year, then look me straight in the eye and tell me he could lead this team to the playoffs.

You guys are the same people who told us the offense would be better if TT left.

[The Red King]

2 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

We had the Packers on the ropes too. And in other games I don't think we have as many turnovers so in a close game who knows?

You guys are the same people who told us the offense would be better if TT left.

 

Nobody wants to answer the question...

 

Why do you think Tyrod would have performed better with the 2018 Bills' offense then he did with the Browns?

 

...i can understand Tyrod supporters trying very hard to act like his Cleveland stint never happened.