Is this a playoff team with Tyrod?

[Teddy KGB]

6 minutes ago, nedboy7 said:

 

He has no argument. No need to argue with him. 

 

6 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

You mean in the PO game?

 

The guys who wanna pay 16 mil for a guy who gets benched after 2.5 weeks ☝?☝?☝?

 

 

[Bing Bong]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Still significantly better than any of the garbage QBs we've played this year. 

 

You don't seem to understand how horrible our QBs are. Aside from Matt Barkley, they've all been a complete train wreck. 

We'd be a better team. For just this one year, we'd be better. How much better? Idk maybe one extra win and closer games, MAYBE playoffs that's what the thread is asking. I wouldn't have said so at the beginning of this year, but seeing this defense, I think it's a possibility.

[Stank_Nasty]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We would still not move the ball.  Taylor holds the ball, it's his weakness.  We lost Incognito and Wood and they were replaced with trash.

Our running game would suffer which means Taylor would have to win games with actually throwing the ball....that doesn't happen very often with him.  

I see 4 year regression pattern that you're not seeing.

 

Right...so McCoy isn't a very good RB.  It was Taylor that made him successful on the ground LOL?

 

I think defenses having to read and react loosened things up a bit those first 2 years.... can that really be argued against?

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Still significantly better than any of the garbage QBs we've played this year. 

 

You don't seem to understand how horrible our QBs are. Aside from Matt Barkley, they've all been a complete train wreck. 

And he continues to show how significantly better he is every week with his play. Oh, wait....

[CuddyDark]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

We would still not move the ball.  Taylor holds the ball, it's his weakness.  We lost Incognito and Wood and they were replaced with trash.

Our running game would suffer which means Taylor would have to win games with actually throwing the ball....that doesn't happen very often with him.  

I see 4 year regression pattern that you're not seeing.

 

Right...so McCoy isn't a very good RB.  It was Taylor that made him successful on the ground LOL?

 

McCoy is a great back but if he's the only focus on offense he has a season like we've seen this year. If you have two probowl backs which is basically what they had with TT and McCoy it's takes a man out of the rushing lanes and makes it easier for McCoy. The only other way to help McCoy is to have a good passing attack. We don't have even an average passing attack, accept for the Barkley game.

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

 

you are significantly downplaying the value of most likely not having 22 to's in just over a half a season. I've read plenty of your stuff around here. you seem smarter than that.

 

i'm not downplaying that.  I think you're downplaying that we still wouldn't move the ball, especially in the air.  Without a running game this year, we think we would win games with Taylor's arm?  We saw the offense was horrible last year...Taylor was QB.

The talent is even less this year on that side of the ball.

[jrober38]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

And he continues to show how significantly better he is every week with his play. Oh, wait....

 

Mayfield looks like a real QB who has been improving steadily for the past month. 

 

That's a lot more than can be said about Allen so far.

 

If Allen doesn't show signs of progress down the stretch Beane and McDermott would be wise to not go all in on him the way we did EJ Manuel years ago, and figure out a Plan B with all that money they have to spend in free agency. 

[Bing Bong]

4 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

Perhaps the better question is this:  would this be a playoff team with Wood, Incognito and Cordy Glenn?  We have a depleted offensive line and no running game, both of which are much worse than the last 3 years.  If Taylor was our starting QB, we may have one more win and many fewer turnovers, but we would not be a playoff team.  I am a Taylor fan and think he's a quality person and a good NFL player, but he's not a good passing QB.  The Bills made the correct decision to move on and take a step back to try to improve the team for the long term. 

 

As to Matt Barkley, he played a great game vs. the Jests last week and I take my hat off to him.  As I read in another post this week, EJ Manuel also once had a great game against the Jests.  Fitzy had a lot of great games for us and for other teams.  That doesn't make any of those guys the franchise QB that the Bills and all NFL teams seek.  Allen may or may not turn out to be a franchise QB, but the only way to find out is to watch him play the rest of this year and all of next year.

I think any quarterback's life would be easier if we had say.. the Vikings WR corps than Wood Incognito and Cordy. The lack of separation makes everything so incredibly difficult with these guys. Even if they've lost the running game and are getting pressured more, they just can't trust their reads.

 

.. Which SUCKS for quarterbacks. Any quarterback. I mean all the elites we talk about never had WR corps this bad except MAYBE Phillip Rivers and he had some down years then. By his standards.

Edited November 16, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[CuddyDark]

4 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

 

The guys who wanna pay 16 mil for a guy who gets benched after 2.5 weeks ☝?☝?☝?

 

 

I'd pay 20M vs the garbage we've seen this year at QB.

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Still significantly better than any of the garbage QBs we've played this year. 

 

You don't seem to understand how horrible our QBs are. Aside from Matt Barkley, they've all been a complete train wreck. 

 

It's not significantly better.  Significantly better is a quality starting QB.  That's not Taylor.  Do you not remember we couldn't score last year either?  Especially in the 2nd half?

I think we had something like 6-8 offensive TD's in the second half last year with Taylor under center.  Now you take away 40% of our starting line, more unproven WR's....and we don't continue to slide?

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

i'm not downplaying that.  I think you're downplaying that we still wouldn't move the ball, especially in the air.  Without a running game this year, we think we would win games with Taylor's arm?  We saw the offense was horrible last year...Taylor was QB.

The talent is even less this year on that side of the ball.

I was ok with moving on with him. but its very simple for me. moving the ball or not. you turn the ball over less you usually lose less when you have a defense like this one. 

[CuddyDark]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It's not significantly better.  Significantly better is a quality starting QB.  That's not Taylor.  Do you not remember we couldn't score last year either?  Especially in the 2nd half?

I think we had something like 6-8 offensive TD's in the second half last year with Taylor under center.  Now you take away 40% of our starting line, more unproven WR's....and we don't continue to slide?

No because we'd have a better running game and less TO.

[jrober38]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It's not significantly better.  Significantly better is a quality starting QB.  That's not Taylor.  Do you not remember we couldn't score last year either?  Especially in the 2nd half?

I think we had something like 6-8 offensive TD's in the second half last year with Taylor under center.  Now you take away 40% of our starting line, more unproven WR's....and we don't continue to slide?

 

Again, what you're saying is just nonsensical.

 

Yeah, we couldn't score, but still scored 19 points per game.

 

Prior to Matt Barkley going off, we were scoring 10.6 points a game, and are only now scoring 13 points per game.

 

Every argument you want to make can be easily shot down by basic stats. 

 

2017 we had a bad offense.

 

2018 we have arguably the worst offense in NFL history.

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It's not significantly better.  Significantly better is a quality starting QB.  That's not Taylor.  Do you not remember we couldn't score last year either?  Especially in the 2nd half?

I think we had something like 6-8 offensive TD's in the second half last year with Taylor under center.  Now you take away 40% of our starting line, more unproven WR's....and we don't continue to slide?

come on man.... the offense was on pace to be historically bad. they had freaking 2 or 3 pass td's up until last week. in an nfl that's on pace to score more points combined in a season than it ever has the bills were competing for historical numbers from 20 and 25 years ago..... so YES, even a qb in the 20-30 range of starters is a SIGNIFICANT upgrade. what freaking team were you watching? 

 

apparently you don't understand the magnitude of what was happening.

[Steptide]

I don't even care if it would be a playoff team with Tyrod. We'd still be last in the league in passing. Sure maybe we'd have less turnovers but oh well. I'm glad Tyrod is gone. Tyrod would've kept is in a bubble of mediocrity. I'd rather take our chances with Allen, even if he ends up terrible. At some point you have to try and be better 

[Stank_Nasty]

2 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Again, what you're saying is just nonsensical.

 

Yeah, we couldn't score, but still scored 19 points per game.

 

Prior to Matt Barkley going off, we were scoring 10.6 points a game, and are only now scoring 13 points per game.

 

Every argument you want to make can be easily shot down by basic stats. 

 

2017 we had a bad offense.

 

2018 we have arguably the worst offense in NFL history.

i'll start this by saying I cant stand your views on allen and it usually annoys the piss out of me.... but thank you for this post.

 

I think maybe people need to see some concrete numbers to realize just how freaking bad it was the first 9 games.

[CuddyDark]

2 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

He’s gonna pull double duty and help Ducasse block ? 

Actually yeah. He'd run out of the pocket and up field for 5 to 20 yards.

 

Teams would have a mush rush against TT. The DT wouldn't even rush him the way they rush pocket QBs. He helps the line and the backs because he's a running threat.

Edited November 16, 2018 by CuddyDark

[Stank_Nasty]

1 minute ago, Steptide said:

I don't even care if it would be a playoff team with Tyrod. We'd still be last in the league in passing. Sure maybe we'd have less turnovers but oh well. I'm glad Tyrod is gone. Tyrod would've kept is in a bubble of mediocrity. I'd rather take our chances with Allen, even if he ends up terrible. At some point you have to try and be better 

so you wouldn't care if they were still winning and still able to develop the young qb on the bench, just because they wouldn't be winning the way you wanted....

 

solid. that makes sense.

 

correct me if i'm wrong but didn't I see you clamoring for Peterman repeatedly last year?

Edited November 16, 2018 by Stank_Nasty

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I was ok with moving on with him. but its very simple for me. moving the ball or not. you turn the ball over less you usually lose less when you have a defense like this one. 

 

I do and can agree with this....but with this offense, I think our offensive scoring would be roughly the same.  We had trouble scoring last year, especially in the 2nd half.  

[Dr. Who]

4 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

 

Mayfield looks like a real QB who has been improving steadily for the past month. 

 

That's a lot more than can be said about Allen so far.

 

If Allen doesn't show signs of progress down the stretch Beane and McDermott would be wise to not go all in on him the way we did EJ Manuel years ago, and figure out a Plan B with all that money they have to spend in free agency. 

I think Mayfield was expected to be one of the few qbs in the draft who could plausibly contribute right away. Rosen was also considered more advanced, but so far his play does not strongly advance that argument. The coaching change in Cleveland seems to have opened up the offense and Mayfield has more talent to work with. One can't really compare Mayfield's progress with Allen who is recovering from an injury. A fair grader would give an incomplete there, not an implied pejorative. Everyone knew going in Allen needed a lot more development. Most likely scenario (and it's not ridiculous) is that Allen gets through next year to show if he is a future franchise qb or not.