Josh Allen starts week 12 but shows no growth....

[Straight Hucklebuck]

22 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

I believe you go with the hot hand and start Barkley. I think he earned himself one more start. I understand Allen is the future but they originally wanted him to sit anyway. But what if he does start and looks the same or worse then he did before injury? He was making some better throws in the Texans game. He didn’t play great but he looked alittle better so what if after sitting and learning from Anderson and all that he doesn’t look any different then what he did before the injury? Do we start to worry? I mean the main reason Josh Allen was even considered such a high pick was because of Carson Wentz and their numbers are no where near the same

Barkley was on a street, 3 weeks ago. No Bills fan was pitching the idea of signing him.

 

Now he's earned his shot. So much so, that fans now want the Bills to veer off their plan to start Allen so they can see what "Barkley can do" ? 

 

I swear Buffalo fans have this underdog complex. Just hoping beyond hope that scrap pile guys, the forgotten, can come out of nowhere and win in this league. 

4 hours ago, billsredneck1 said:

I'd rather see barkley get one more game, especially against the jags who will blitz nonstop on allen.  if barkley plays and we lose then we're done and it's josh the rest of the way.

if we win with barkley and they decide to go with josh, i'd rather it be against miami or the jets at home.

 

there are 52 other guys on this team trying to win.  that's the most important thing. what is the stance of the players' council? 

Disagree completely. 

 

Matt Barkley is not important. 

 

Just like Nate Peterman the 5th Rounder wasn't important, just like Derek Anderson a career backup wasn't important. 

 

The 22 year old that the GM had to have is the franchise's plan. 

[LSHMEAB]

18 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

I'm sorry, we are not talking about walking and chewing gum at the same time. I'm sure, as a bills fan, you would love to be wrong. My point was this: You cannot state that you have arrived at the conclusion Josh Allen is a bust and also claim to be open and objective about him. Those things are incongruent.

Fair enough.

 

What I do appreciate about this post is that you demonstrate the fundamental understanding that skepticism of Allen does not make one any less of a Bills fan. Too many people seem to have that twisted.

 

For 3 hours a week, nothing is more important than the Bills game. In a meaningless game against a team that didn't care up 28 at halftime, I was still freaking nervous that we'd find a way to blow it. Never mind the fact that the game meant nothing and it probably would have been better to lose. I was sweating bullets when Hauschka lined up to kick the game winner against Tennessee. 

 

Faith is worthless. If hoping something to be true made a difference, the Bills would win the SuperBowl every year. I think Allen's inaccuracy issues and lack of awareness in the pocket will ultimately lead to his football demise. I would love to be wrong about that.

Edited November 15, 2018 by LSHMEAB

[Rebel101]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Barkley was on a street, 3 weeks ago. No Bills fan was pitching the idea of signing him.

 

Now he's earned his shot. So much so, that fans now want the Bills to veer off their plan to start Allen so they can see what "Barkley can do" ? 

 

I swear Buffalo fans have this underdog complex. Just hoping beyond hope that scrap pile guys, the forgotten, can come out of nowhere and win in this league. 

Disagree completely. 

 

Matt Barkley is not important. 

 

Just like Nate Peterman the 5th Rounder wasn't important, just like Derek Anderson a career backup wasn't important. 

 

The 22 year old that the GM had to have is the franchise's plan. 

Not at all Josh Allen is the future of course. But if McBeane isn’t tanking then I think Barkley should get another start. It wouldn’t hurt Allen to sit and watch a QB go in command the huddle and win games. Which was what McBeane originally wanted anyway. Allen has a lot to learn mentality and physically in this game. If Barkley can go in and continue to play the way he has it would help Allen learn more and actually give him substance to believe in. Like ok this dude is doing this like this and it’s actually working

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I'll admit to thinking that Barkley maybe should start.  As you said, he earned it.   If you ask who's the best QB on the team today, based on in-game performance, it has to be Barkley.  He's outplayed all the others, including Allen.  

 

However, you have these additional considerations:  It was the Jets.  It certainly was an aberrational game for Barkley.  He's essentially never played like that before, and no coaches or GMs in the league thought enough about anything he'd shown before Sunday to even have him on a roster.   The chances that he's your guy for the next five years are probably 10% or less.  The chances that Allen is your starter for the next five years are probably above 50%.   What Allen needs is experience on the field.  The Bills have the opportunity to give him six games of experience without much of anything on the line.  That's a valuable opportunity.  He'll know more starting game 1 of the 2019 season if he plays these six games.   

 

Add to that that Allen hasn't looked lost on the field, so the chances are the experience starting these six games will result in growth and not some emotional trauma that sets him back.  

 

The Bills are using the balance of this season to try out players.  We saw it last week, we see it in the continuing roster changes.  McDermott admitted it.   It's not surprising that they're doing at QB, too.  The reality for Barkley is that he's trying out for the backup role.  Peterman is gone, Anderson likely is gone.  Barkley has six weeks to prove that what he does on the practice field, in the QB room and in the locker room is what the Bills want in a backup.  If he's a plus, he gets a few million dollar contract, a contract he didn't have six weeks ago.  If he doesn't help, the Bills will look for someone else.  

Agreed I don’t think Barkley is our future. But I do believe if he can produce wins. It would help Allen’s development. Because right now he is learning from people who have performed poorly so somewhere in the back of his head he has to think well clearly what you are telling me isn’t working for you. It’s human nature. So I think to watch a Vet QB win games would greatly help Allen. Then maybe 3 or 4 games left put Allen out there. Unless Barkley is on a tear which I highly doubt. But the plan was for Allen to sit all season. Or for atleast the majority of the season, so if you have a chance to win games and go back to your original plan why not do so?

[26CornerBlitz]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Barkley was on a street, 3 weeks ago. No Bills fan was pitching the idea of signing him.

 

Now he's earned his shot. So much so, that fans now want the Bills to veer off their plan to start Allen so they can see what "Barkley can do" ? 

 

I swear Buffalo fans have this underdog complex. Just hoping beyond hope that scrap pile guys, the forgotten, can come out of nowhere and win in this league. 

Disagree completely. 

 

Matt Barkley is not important. 

 

Just like Nate Peterman the 5th Rounder wasn't important, just like Derek Anderson a career backup wasn't important. 

 

The 22 year old that the GM had to have is the franchise's plan. 

 

Thank goodness this has already been decided with an eye toward the future of the franchise instead of wasting valuable snaps on the veteran journeyman. 

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 minutes ago, Rebel101 said:

Not at all Josh Allen is the future of course. But if McBeane isn’t tanking then I think Barkley should get another start. It wouldn’t hurt Allen to sit and watch a QB go in command the huddle and win games. Which was what McBeane originally wanted anyway. Allen has a lot to learn mentality and physically in this game. If Barkley can go in and continue to play the way he has it would help Allen learn more and actually give him substance to believe in. Like ok this dude is doing this like this and it’s actually working

 

How is Barkley helping Allen again by starting? 

 

Barkley starts against the Jags and plays well, Allen is sitting watching him and learning how to play better?

 

Doesn't it make sense that if Allen is going to work out, I doesn't hinge on whether he learns enough from Matt Barkley, who himself is an NFL journeyman backup?

 

Eventually Allen is going to have to go back into starting lineup. We can chase the new QB who showed up off the street, or we can get on with figuring out whether Beane's handpicked QB can play, and thus whether the plan Beane keeps talking about is worth anything. 

 

How can the FO have any credibility left if they go out and start Barkley because he can teach Allen how to win?

 

The logic doesn't make any sense here.  

 

 

[Rebel101]

23 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

How is Barkley helping Allen again by starting? 

 

Barkley starts against the Jags and plays well, Allen is sitting watching him and learning how to play better?

 

Doesn't it make sense that if Allen is going to work out, I doesn't hinge on whether he learns enough from Matt Barkley, who himself is an NFL journeyman backup?

 

Eventually Allen is going to have to go back into starting lineup. We can chase the new QB who showed up off the street, or we can get on with figuring out whether Beane's handpicked QB can play, and thus whether the plan Beane keeps talking about is worth anything. 

 

How can the FO have any credibility left if they go out and start Barkley because he can teach Allen how to win?

 

The logic doesn't make any sense here.  

 

 

How doesn’t it make sense? The plan was for Allen to sit behind Peterman and watch and learn. It didn’t work out. Now they can let Allen sit and learn. I agree 100% Allen has to be the future or we need to start over. But nothing has showed in the games he has played that he is ready to be out there. You don’t know his mental makeup what if all the consistent bad play begins to effect him. I think if Barkley can continue to play the way he did. It does nothing but help Allen develop. I also believe him playing would also help if handled properly, but I still think Allen has a lot to learn before he belongs on an NFL field. Game experience and reps are great for a player who only has minimal issues. Allen has a lot of ***** to fix and a lot of it is in his mental side of the game which watching tape and watching others is gonna be able to fix. Because you never know he could end up ruining his confidence or become scared from “getting reps.” Where as sitting watching and learning will not ruin him

23 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

How is Barkley helping Allen again by starting? 

 

Barkley starts against the Jags and plays well, Allen is sitting watching him and learning how to play better?

 

Doesn't it make sense that if Allen is going to work out, I doesn't hinge on whether he learns enough from Matt Barkley, who himself is an NFL journeyman backup?

 

Eventually Allen is going to have to go back into starting lineup. We can chase the new QB who showed up off the street, or we can get on with figuring out whether Beane's handpicked QB can play, and thus whether the plan Beane keeps talking about is worth anything. 

 

How can the FO have any credibility left if they go out and start Barkley because he can teach Allen how to win?

 

The logic doesn't make any sense here.  

 

 

And like I said him learning from someone who is winning is a lot better then learning from people who aren’t and never have. It will allow him to put more faith into what he is actually learning and seeing instead of possibly doubting it. I mean helping Allen to watch field and understanding coverages and things like that any veteran is good. But if Barkley can continue to win Allen will listen to Barkley more then he would Anderson because he is proving his view point of the game is producing results. Where as Anderson’s were not. When it comes down to Allen hearing how to dissect a defense, which route one QB looks to depending on a coverage, how long each read should get time, and which read is best in what scenario. Allen would take a winning Barkley’s advice over a poor performing Anderson. It’s human nature to question someone telling you how to do something who is doing it worse then yourself

Edited November 15, 2018 by Rebel101

[billsfan1959]

2 hours ago, LSHMEAB said:

Fair enough.

 

What I do appreciate about this post is that you demonstrate the fundamental understanding that skepticism of Allen does not make one any less of a Bills fan. Too many people seem to have that twisted.

 

For 3 hours a week, nothing is more important than the Bills game. In a meaningless game against a team that didn't care up 28 at halftime, I was still freaking nervous that we'd find a way to blow it. Never mind the fact that the game meant nothing and it probably would have been better to lose. I was sweating bullets when Hauschka lined up to kick the game winner against Tennessee. 

 

Faith is worthless. If hoping something to be true made a difference, the Bills would win the SuperBowl every year. I think Allen's inaccuracy issues and lack of awareness in the pocket will ultimately lead to his football demise. I would love to be wrong about that.

I might question your views, your perceptions, your critical thinking skills, your sanity on occasion, and maybe even the paternal lineage of your children ; however, I won't question your passion for the Bills.

 

And I don't think it is a matter of faith as much as it is a recognition that I have absolutely no control over anything regarding this team other than I how I choose to let it affect me as a fan. I try to do it in a way where I don't let it adversely affect me. It took me a long time to get there; however, my Sunday afternoons are so much more enjoyable now.

 

I'm sure we will continue to have some passionate and spirited debates that even drift off the rails at times to, shall we say, less than cordial behavior. However, that is no different than most families (at least mine and most that I know).

 

Edited November 15, 2018 by billsfan1959

[Straight Hucklebuck]

2 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

How doesn’t it make sense? The plan was for Allen to sit behind Peterman and watch and learn. It didn’t work out. Now they can let Allen sit and learn. I agree 100% Allen has to be the future or we need to start over. But nothing has showed in the games he has played that he is ready to be out there. You don’t know his mental makeup what if all the consistent bad play begins to effect him. I think if Barkley can continue to play the way he did. It does nothing but help Allen develop. I also believe him playing would also help if handled properly, but I still think Allen has a lot to learn before he belongs on an NFL field. Game experience and reps are great for a player who only has minimal issues. Allen has a lot of ***** to fix and a lot of it is in his mental side of the game which watching tape and watching others is gonna be able to fix. Because you never know he could end up ruining his confidence or become scared from “getting reps.” Where as sitting watching and learning will not ruin him

And like I said him learning from someone who is winning is a lot better then learning from people who aren’t and never have. It will allow him to put more faith into what he is actually learning and seeing instead of possibly doubting it. I mean helping Allen to watch field and understanding coverages and things like that any veteran is good. But if Barkley can continue to win Allen will listen to Barkley more then he would Anderson because he is proving his view point of the game is producing results. Where as Anderson’s were not. When it comes down to Allen hearing how to dissect a defense, which route one QB looks to depending on a coverage, how long each read should get time, and which read is best in what scenario. Allen would take a winning Barkley’s advice over a poor performing Anderson. It’s human nature to question someone telling you how to do something who is doing it worse then yourself

Who is Matt Barkley though? 

 

A 4th Round pick from the terrible 2013 QB class, a guy with 10 TDs and 18 Ints. He’s started what? A dozen or so games. 

 

All of those things you list, couldn’t our offensive Coaches do that? Couldn’t Barkley do that from he sideline? Watching tape is something the Bills should be good at because McDermott talks about it every week. 

 

It doesn’t make any sense to bench Allen for Matt Barkley on the “learning” basis. 

 

He’s the 7th overall pick who Beane traded Glenn, #12, #53 and #56 for. He has to play. And if watching and learning is real, then he has had 4-5 weeks to watch tape before the Jags with 35 year old Anderson and Barkley and Coaches, so he should be noticeably better. 

[Luka]

So let me just get this straight. We drafted the QB with the least amount of Division 1 snaps. We then gave him only a third of the reps in the offseason. And now he's missed 5 weeks of reps due to injury.

 

And you want to limit his reps if he struggles?

 

Buffalo really is where QBs go to die. Sorry Josh.

[LSHMEAB]

Ok. Can we PLEASE stop the Barkley nonsense! It was a mirage. He is WHO WE THOUGHT HE WAS. A guy who can fling it around a little bit but not good enough and too turnover prone to ever be a starter.

 

As skeptical as I am of Allen, he's your starter for the rest of this season. It's really that simple. A) He needs the experience and B)We need to gauge his progress.

 

That does not mean they're gonna take a quarterback in the first round. They won't. But if the future looks uncertain, they can at least consider whether they want to explore contingency plans going forward.

 

In a perfect world, he progresses as a passer. I'd like to see him run as infrequently as possible, especially this season when he needs to learn and the games don't matter.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, LSHMEAB said:

Ok. Can we PLEASE stop the Barkley nonsense! It was a mirage. He is WHO WE THOUGHT HE WAS. A guy who can fling it around a little bit but not good enough and too turnover prone to ever be a starter.

 

As skeptical as I am of Allen, he's your starter for the rest of this season. It's really that simple. A) He needs the experience and B)We need to gauge his progress.

 

That does not mean they're gonna take a quarterback in the first round. They won't. But if the future looks uncertain, they can at least consider whether they want to explore contingency plans going forward.

 

In a perfect world, he progresses as a passer. I'd like to see him run as infrequently as possible, especially this season when he needs to learn and the games don't matter.

 

It just shows a lack of foresight and visionary thinking in the long term best interests of the team.

[billsredneck1]

On 11/15/2018 at 11:29 AM, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Barkley was on a street, 3 weeks ago. No Bills fan was pitching the idea of signing him.

 

Now he's earned his shot. So much so, that fans now want the Bills to veer off their plan to start Allen so they can see what "Barkley can do" ? 

 

I swear Buffalo fans have this underdog complex. Just hoping beyond hope that scrap pile guys, the forgotten, can come out of nowhere and win in this league. 

Disagree completely. 

 

Matt Barkley is not important. 

 

Just like Nate Peterman the 5th Rounder wasn't important, just like Derek Anderson a career backup wasn't important. 

 

The 22 year old that the GM had to have is the franchise's plan. 

i get what you're saying, but one more game is not gonna mean jack for his future or whether or not he's gonna make it. bottom line is winning.