Josh Allen starts week 12 but shows no growth....

[MJS]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

He didn't say anything about winning on Monday at his presser.  He mentioned just what I said the focus is with the team sitting at 3-7. 

 

Well stay tuned. I'm sure he'll talk about the importance of winning football games, getting the offense going, starting early, and playoff caliber football soon enough. More coach speak coming your way!

[Nanker]

5 hours ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

What about his hands?

I'll check with Marco Rubio and get back to ya. 

[hemma]

At the beginning of the year, I hoped that Allen would start after the bye.

 

At 3-7, seems like an even better idea.  Gear him up for next year.

[Rico]

3 hours ago, jrober38 said:

 

Name a worse starting QB this year. 

 

Allen is 32nd in QB Rating, 32nd in Total QBR, 32nd in pass yards per game and the Bills have the worst scoring offense in the league. 

Concrete proof that stats are for losers.

[TigerJ]

8 hours ago, Doc said:

Darnold looked terrible in his last start.  Should the Jets bench him?

Josh McCown didn't look so hot in his last start either. 

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

A couple of opinions on common themes in these Barkley/Allen threads:

 

*  Barkley has earned another start.  WTH is this?  So now the criteria for earning a starting job by a back-up QB is to play a solid game.  Isn't this why they brought Barkley in.   

 

*  Go with Barkley, who has the "hot hand".  Who cares if Barkley has the hot hand or not.  Does Fitz having had a hot hand alter the fact that Tampa Bay will be desperately looking for a QB in the off season? 

 

*  The ultimate upside with Barkley as the Bills QB is 8 - 8.  Look familiar?  So folks want to put off developing a franchise QB (or finding out that he isn't the guy) because we might win a couple more games with Barkley?  For the last 20 years the Bills have occupied football's equivalent of PURGATORY (though I would call it hell) where they hang around 500 and everyone points to next year as the year - over & over & over & over & over & over &.......Again.  Count me out. 

 

*  What if Allen looks bad?  Then we learn something.  And if Allen stinks up the show against Jacksonville he still starts the next week and the week after that.  That we're even having this debate in Billsland is amazing to me.  Allen may or may not be the guy to lead us out of the football wilderness we've occupied the last 20 years but he offers us at least a chance to break our cycle of extreme mediocrity.  Barkley as a starter is a GUARANTEE that we continue to try to push the boulder up the hill. 

I feel you, then what are they doing in Tampa? 

[Mr. WEO]

Didn't Peterman have the hot hand going into week 1?

[Rob's House]

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

He hasn't played for 50% of the season.  Keep cherry picking stats to fit your narrative.  And if you think Josh Allen is the sole - even the primary - reason that the Bills offense is so anemic, then you've not been watching the games.

Are you still in Josh Allen sucks denial?

[Formerly Allan in MD]

9 hours ago, LBSeeBallLBGetBall said:

Not enough times.

[Bob in STL]

 

 

Can he at least play the game before we decide if he made any growth?  

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

If this guy comes in and puts up another 80 yd performance with the offense that just scored 41, it’s going to get ugly. It started to feel like EJ by the 3rd quarter of the Texans game and now we know this offense is capable of points. The excuses are about over. To me, there no reason to not allow Barkley to get at least 1 more start, but whatever. This team is clueless and had Nate Peterman on the roster until yesterday. Now that we are not letting Barkley play again, it’s time for Allen to not be terrible. I don’t care what that situation is. The Green Bay Embarrassment followed by back to back sub 90 yard passing performances is enough. Start doing things that are good or else I hope we draft another QB. I don’t subscribe to the thought of it taking a long time to learn about a guy. If Allen continues to not play well,  I’m not putting all my eggs into that 1 basket. I would personally try to hedge my bets by letting Barkley play a bit. Obviously it’s not my call and I’m sure these guys will make the right decision like they always do....

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, Rob's House said:

Are you still in Josh Allen sucks denial?

 

I am.  But at least I finally know EJ sucks.  Baby steps.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

47 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

If this guy comes in and puts up another 80 yd performance with the offense that just scored 41, it’s going to get ugly. It started to feel like EJ by the 3rd quarter of the Texans game and now we know this offense is capable of points. The excuses are about over. To me, there no reason to not allow Barkley to get at least 1 more start, but whatever. This team is clueless and had Nate Peterman on the roster until yesterday. Now that we are not letting Barkley play again, it’s time for Allen to not be terrible. I don’t care what that situation is. The Green Bay Embarrassment followed by back to back sub 90 yard passing performances is enough. Start doing things that are good or else I hope we draft another QB. I don’t subscribe to the thought of it taking a long time to learn about a guy. If Allen continues to not play well,  I’m not putting all my eggs into that 1 basket. I would personally try to hedge my bets by letting Barkley play a bit. Obviously it’s not my call and I’m sure these guys will make the right decision like they always do....

 

Lol; you're just so serious!!!  "No more excuses"..."I don't care what the situation is"..."it's going to get ugly."   You're nothing more than a fan on a message board, you affect NOTHING.  

[Ayjent]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

He hasn't played for 50% of the season.  Keep cherry picking stats to fit your narrative.  And if you think Josh Allen is the sole - even the primary - reason that the Bills offense is so anemic, then you've not been watching the games.

I think the point is that the Offense looked the best it has all season with a guy that had pretty much a career that was pretty much coming to an end if this didn't pan out for him,  and with less than 2 weeks with the team.  He showed that this team's offense could look good with some decent QB play.  Maybe it was an aberration like the Minn game.  It's hard to say with just week of play.  But we certainly hadn't seen anyone play as effective at QB this season than Barkley.

[Ayjent]

5 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

I disagree.  Allen's overall performance against Minnesota was better IMO.  While the passing stats between the two were similar Allen contributed a lot more as a runner.  On top of that the Vikings were a much better team then the Jets.  I just don't get how folks declare the Barkley effort Sunday, which was good, to be better then Allen's against Minny. 

Josh Allen had a good game against Minnesota, but the first quarter was full of opportunities for the team - two of their drives resulting in scores were after take aways on a short field, and the other was helped by two personal fouls.   They had two decent long drives (50+ yds) the whole game, and the rest were just cashing in on good D and turnovers.    Not knocking his play, he made the most of the opportunities and it is by far his best game, but 15 completions and less than 200 yds wasn't nearly as good as leading the Offense having 5 drives of 50+ yards resulting in TDs with a good deal of chunk plays (47 yd to Foster, 33yds to Jones, 22 yds to Holmes, 43 yds to Foster).

 

Barkley looked more consistent than Allen in those respective games and had better command of the Offense.  The Bills moved the ball very well all game because they had complimentary passing and running.  Granted Allen played a better D - but as far as overall QB play - I think you can objectively say Barkley played better than Allen because he was more consistent and helped sustain longer drives and more of them.  I'm not saying start Barkley if Allen is healthy, but its something to keep in mind with Allen's play which hasn't really been very good with any consistency.  A couple of flashes here and there, but really not much to get excited about outside of the first half of the Viking game.  Allen looks better than I thought he would passing, but the Offense looks pretty meh with him at QB most of the time, and he wasn't playing that well before he got injured.  Maybe it will come together, but he's got to get a lot better at a lot of things.  He kinda reminds me of Ryan Tannehill

[billsredneck1]

I'd rather see barkley get one more game, especially against the jags who will blitz nonstop on allen.  if barkley plays and we lose then we're done and it's josh the rest of the way.

if we win with barkley and they decide to go with josh, i'd rather it be against miami or the jets at home.

 

there are 52 other guys on this team trying to win.  that's the most important thing. what is the stance of the players' council? 

[oldmanfan]

8 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

If this guy comes in and puts up another 80 yd performance with the offense that just scored 41, it’s going to get ugly. It started to feel like EJ by the 3rd quarter of the Texans game and now we know this offense is capable of points. The excuses are about over. To me, there no reason to not allow Barkley to get at least 1 more start, but whatever. This team is clueless and had Nate Peterman on the roster until yesterday. Now that we are not letting Barkley play again, it’s time for Allen to not be terrible. I don’t care what that situation is. The Green Bay Embarrassment followed by back to back sub 90 yard passing performances is enough. Start doing things that are good or else I hope we draft another QB. I don’t subscribe to the thought of it taking a long time to learn about a guy. If Allen continues to not play well,  I’m not putting all my eggs into that 1 basket. I would personally try to hedge my bets by letting Barkley play a bit. Obviously it’s not my call and I’m sure these guys will make the right decision like they always do....

Go watch the Texans game carefully.  Allen was doing fine till he got hurt.  And calm down; this is not global war we're talking about.  It's a football team.

[billsfan1959]

9 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

If this guy comes in and puts up another 80 yd performance with the offense that just scored 41, it’s going to get ugly. It started to feel like EJ by the 3rd quarter of the Texans game and now we know this offense is capable of points. The excuses are about over. To me, there no reason to not allow Barkley to get at least 1 more start, but whatever. This team is clueless and had Nate Peterman on the roster until yesterday. Now that we are not letting Barkley play again, it’s time for Allen to not be terrible. I don’t care what that situation is. The Green Bay Embarrassment followed by back to back sub 90 yard passing performances is enough. Start doing things that are good or else I hope we draft another QB. I don’t subscribe to the thought of it taking a long time to learn about a guy. If Allen continues to not play well,  I’m not putting all my eggs into that 1 basket. I would personally try to hedge my bets by letting Barkley play a bit. Obviously it’s not my call and I’m sure these guys will make the right decision like they always do....

There, was that so hard?

[Shaw66]

19 hours ago, Rebel101 said:

I believe you go with the hot hand and start Barkley. I think he earned himself one more start. I understand Allen is the future but they originally wanted him to sit anyway. But what if he does start and looks the same or worse then he did before injury? He was making some better throws in the Texans game. He didn’t play great but he looked alittle better so what if after sitting and learning from Anderson and all that he doesn’t look any different then what he did before the injury? Do we start to worry? I mean the main reason Josh Allen was even considered such a high pick was because of Carson Wentz and their numbers are no where near the same

I'll admit to thinking that Barkley maybe should start.  As you said, he earned it.   If you ask who's the best QB on the team today, based on in-game performance, it has to be Barkley.  He's outplayed all the others, including Allen.  

 

However, you have these additional considerations:  It was the Jets.  It certainly was an aberrational game for Barkley.  He's essentially never played like that before, and no coaches or GMs in the league thought enough about anything he'd shown before Sunday to even have him on a roster.   The chances that he's your guy for the next five years are probably 10% or less.  The chances that Allen is your starter for the next five years are probably above 50%.   What Allen needs is experience on the field.  The Bills have the opportunity to give him six games of experience without much of anything on the line.  That's a valuable opportunity.  He'll know more starting game 1 of the 2019 season if he plays these six games.   

 

Add to that that Allen hasn't looked lost on the field, so the chances are the experience starting these six games will result in growth and not some emotional trauma that sets him back.  

 

The Bills are using the balance of this season to try out players.  We saw it last week, we see it in the continuing roster changes.  McDermott admitted it.   It's not surprising that they're doing at QB, too.  The reality for Barkley is that he's trying out for the backup role.  Peterman is gone, Anderson likely is gone.  Barkley has six weeks to prove that what he does on the practice field, in the QB room and in the locker room is what the Bills want in a backup.  If he's a plus, he gets a few million dollar contract, a contract he didn't have six weeks ago.  If he doesn't help, the Bills will look for someone else.  

[CincyBillsFan]

9 hours ago, Ayjent said:

Josh Allen had a good game against Minnesota, but the first quarter was full of opportunities for the team - two of their drives resulting in scores were after take aways on a short field, and the other was helped by two personal fouls.   They had two decent long drives (50+ yds) the whole game, and the rest were just cashing in on good D and turnovers.    Not knocking his play, he made the most of the opportunities and it is by far his best game, but 15 completions and less than 200 yds wasn't nearly as good as leading the Offense having 5 drives of 50+ yards resulting in TDs with a good deal of chunk plays (47 yd to Foster, 33yds to Jones, 22 yds to Holmes, 43 yds to Foster).

 

Barkley looked more consistent than Allen in those respective games and had better command of the Offense.  The Bills moved the ball very well all game because they had complimentary passing and running.  Granted Allen played a better D - but as far as overall QB play - I think you can objectively say Barkley played better than Allen because he was more consistent and helped sustain longer drives and more of them.  I'm not saying start Barkley if Allen is healthy, but its something to keep in mind with Allen's play which hasn't really been very good with any consistency.  A couple of flashes here and there, but really not much to get excited about outside of the first half of the Viking game.  Allen looks better than I thought he would passing, but the Offense looks pretty meh with him at QB most of the time, and he wasn't playing that well before he got injured.  Maybe it will come together, but he's got to get a lot better at a lot of things.  He kinda reminds me of Ryan Tannehill

 

I disagree.  Allen opened the game leading the Bills on a 9 play 75 yard drive to put Buffalo up 7 - 0 and set the tone for the day.  Later in the half Allen led the Bills on an 11 play 65 yard TD drive.

 

And we can argue all day about subjective stuff like which QB had more breaks in their game though I doubt the Vikings drop those two INT's that Barkley almost threw.  But one thing I do know for sure is that Minnesota has a better defense then the NY Jets and is a playoff contender.  I also suspect that the Jets laid down Sunday.

 

As far as "consistency" goes I'm not sure how you can claim Barkley is more consistent than Allen based on ONE game?  Keep in mind that Allen quarterbacked the Bills through the toughest schedule in the NFL.  It's hard for a rookie QB to be consistent surrounded by mediocre (at best) offensive talent while playing the hardest schedule in the league. 

 

At this point given the high level of competition he has faced; the lack of offensive tools at his disposal and the fact that he's a raw rookie, I don't see how Allen can remind someone of anyone currently in the NFL.  We just haven't seen enough of his work to know much of anything.  That's why he needs to play the rest of this year and all of next year before we can decide who he is.