Offensive Line Continuity

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Wasn't everyone raving about Dallas O-line 3 years ago.  Did I read that there are only 2 or 3 of the five still there?

[Mark80]

5 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Wasn't everyone raving about Dallas O-line 3 years ago.  Did I read that there are only 2 or 3 of the five still there?

 

Thats because of injury, not guys leaving.  The 3 best are still there.  Frederick, Smith, and Martin.  Collins was also seen as the next in line back then and is starting now.

 

Frederick is on IR right now and I believe either Smith or Martin were playing injured and down those two at 100% there was a big time difference.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Mark80

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Continuity is good if you have the right people in place.  Pittsburgh obviously does.  4 of those five are very good players.  

 

...a staple of their organization....Colbert as GM since 2000....3 HC's in 48 years.....stable ownership that hires football people to run a football organization...RESULT=SIX Lombardis....not a bad formula...........

[TFBillsfan]

3 hours ago, Augie said:

I think most people have OLine as a top priority, not an afterthought. And yes, continuity is good only with the right players. We do NOT want continuity with THIS group, though the left side looks promising. Build both lines, then go for the skill guys. (And PRAY Allen is the guy!) 

Agree. Need to invest in a stud OT in the draft. Maybe center in 3rd and sign a OG in FA if possible. They’ve invested on the DL side (Shaq, Harrison, Star, Hughes, Murphy and Gaines) They MUST invest in the OL this offseason!

[HomeskillitMoorman]

As many have already said in this thread here...continuity is nice if you have really good players. We have at least 3 guys on the O-line who are starting that we know are not quality NFL starters. Dawkins is solid and we're hoping on Teller. Major work needs to be done on the O-line. At least 3 starters and a quality swingman is needed. 

35 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Wasn't everyone raving about Dallas O-line 3 years ago.  Did I read that there are only 2 or 3 of the five still there?

 

Yea, and if you remember, that Dallas O-line made a HUGE difference. That offense was really efficient that year. 

[ColoradoBills]

2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

The fact that the O-line has gotten so much better through the course of the season after all the reshuffling that happened in the off season goes to show that continuity matters.  Even Teller, who is doing well for a rookie, probably would not have been that good if inserted at the start of the season.  He needed to learn and grow with the O-line during practice through the season.   

 

An upgrade at center would be great, but I don't think we need the massive overhaul so many have called for.  

 

Development seems to have gone out the window in the NFL.  I understand why, but you can't just pretend that players don't need to develop just because its a win-now league.   

 

Mills, Miller, and Groy are all FAs next year.  The Bills need a lot of investment in the OL.

[RochesterRob]

Just now, ColoradoBills said:

 

Mills, Miller, and Groy are all FAs next year.  The Bills need a lot of investment in the OL.

  I bet we draft one high and maybe one in the mid-rounds next year.  

[ColoradoBills]

Just now, RochesterRob said:

  I bet we draft one high and maybe one in the mid-rounds next year.  

 

I would think so.............probably some FA depth too.

Personally I'm interested in Ducasse fate at the end of the season.

Want to see a little more of Sirles to see if he is worth depth.

McDermott and Boettger are JAGs and should be upgraded.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

5 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  I bet we draft one high and maybe one in the mid-rounds next year.  

 

As long as that's supplemented with at least 2 more high quality players from free agency/trades, that could be OK. 

[John from Riverside]

Where were those offensive linemen drafted?   What round

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Where were those offensive linemen drafted?   What round

 

Pittsburg starters are 2-1st rounders, 1-2nd rounder and 2 UDFAs.

They got a couple of 4th rounders as depth.

[Bing Bong]

4 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

I'm ok with a G or C or RT in Rd1-2, but I'd also like to see a really good WR.  If we sign some FA OL to 4-5 year deals that may also help. But no more Newhouse/Bodine types.

We GOTTA go WR round 1, and aim high at FA as well. Otherwise, all trenches and I'd love that offseason.

Edited November 14, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Other teams do unexciting but productive things, why can't/don't the Bills?

[Nihilarian]

While quality linemen are important it's also important to have a top quality line coach who is HoF O linemen Mike Munchak since 2014. A 9 time probowl LG for the Oilers/Titans.

 

To answer someone's question.

 

RT Marcus Gilbert 2nd round pick.

RG David DeCastro 1st round pick

C Maurkice Pouncey 1st round pick

LG Ramon Foster undrafted free agent  Rated as the 23rd best OT in 2009 and the Steelers moved him to OG. 6'5'' 328 also known as "The Big Ragu"

LT Alejandro Villanueva undrafted free agent to the Bengals as a TE in 2010. He did three tours of duty in Afghanistan as an Army captain / Ranger. After he didn't make the Bengals as a TE he went back into the military for 2 years and was later signed by the Eagles to play DE, he was waived by the Eagles and signed to the Steelers practice squad. While at DE for Philly he weighed 250lbs and gained weight up to 328 to play OT for Pittsburgh. He made the pro bowl in 2017

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

6 hours ago, Mark80 said:

 

Thats because of injury, not guys leaving.  The 3 best are still there.  Frederick, Smith, and Martin.  Collins was also seen as the next in line back then and is starting now.

 

Frederick is on IR right now and I believe either Smith or Martin were playing injured and down those two at 100% there was a big time difference.

 

OK was thinking seemed to fast for their contracts to all be up by now.

[jahbonas]

23 hours ago, Flip Johnson said:

I thought this was a fascinating note in Albert Breer's MMQB article.

 

The Pittsburgh Steelers have managed to keep their offensive line together over the years and have developed massive continuity. This has to be part of what allows them to plug in James Connor, and allows Big Ben to keep thriving while losing top tier players like Bell.

 

Look how long their current o-lineman have been with the team.

- Ramon Foster - 10 years

- Maurkice Pouncey - 9 years

- Marcus Gilbert - 8 years

- David DeCastro - 7 years

- Alejandro Villaneueva - 4 years

 

It's an interesting note as the Bills decide how to allocate their money and draft picks in 2019. Most of us are clamoring for WR/TE to take top priority. They have invested picks in Dawkins and Teller and those guys have the potential to anchor the left side for years to come. More offensive lineman might not be as exciting, but could turn out to be shrewd roster building.

 

Whole article is here:

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/12/nfl-news-notes-rumors-ronald-darby-sidney-jones-cooper-kupp-josh-reynolds-teryl-austin

 

 

 

 

 

They made it a priority   - Decastro & Pouncey were drafted in 1st round (18th & 24th) and Marcus Gilber is 2nd rd......   compare to us - Dawkins 2nd rd  & Miller 3rd & Teller 5th rd....

You dont need every Off lineman drafted in rd1  -  but Pitt 'gets it'  with 2 #1's  and a #2  as the core of their 5

 

We should right this ship by drafting OL  in rd1  and rd2   - then we got something - every skill player benefits and suddenly looks better

 

Bills Off Line in Kelly era  -  Jim Richter rd1,  Will Wilford rd1,  Ruben Brown rd1, John Fina rd 1 Joe Devlin rd2

 

One of the biggest draft mistakes we made - 1994 we had a #1  and 3 #2's.....we take Jeff Burris, Lonnie Johnson, Bucky Brooks , Sam Rogers (ignore off line)  while Dallas walks away with powerful OG Larry Allen in rd2,

 

[Flip Johnson]

1 hour ago, jahbonas said:

 

They made it a priority   - Decastro & Pouncey were drafted in 1st round (18th & 24th) and Marcus Gilber is 2nd rd......   compare to us - Dawkins 2nd rd  & Miller 3rd & Teller 5th rd....

You dont need every Off lineman drafted in rd1  -  but Pitt 'gets it'  with 2 #1's  and a #2  as the core of their 5

 

We should right this ship by drafting OL  in rd1  and rd2   - then we got something - every skill player benefits and suddenly looks better

 

Bills Off Line in Kelly era  -  Jim Richter rd1,  Will Wilford rd1,  Ruben Brown rd1, John Fina rd 1 Joe Devlin rd2

 

One of the biggest draft mistakes we made - 1994 we had a #1  and 3 #2's.....we take Jeff Burris, Lonnie Johnson, Bucky Brooks , Sam Rogers (ignore off line)  while Dallas walks away with powerful OG Larry Allen in rd2,

 

 

Your point about the Kelly era does not really hold - those guys were drafted over a 20 year period and did not all play together. Devlin (76), Ritcher (80), Wolford (86), Fina (92), Brown (95). The O-line in the prime Kelly years thrived on low picks like Hull and Ballard who developed into great players. 

 

Regardless, I would like to see the Bills add at least one starter through the draft this year by investing a pick in the first couple rounds. If the Bills continue to draft at least one core offensive lineman each year, they will also stagger when they have to pay those guys which could be smart from a roster building standpoint. 

 

[jahbonas]

4 hours ago, Flip Johnson said:

 

Your point about the Kelly era does not really hold - those guys were drafted over a 20 year period and did not all play together. Devlin (76), Ritcher (80), Wolford (86), Fina (92), Brown (95). The O-line in the prime Kelly years thrived on low picks like Hull and Ballard who developed into great players. 

 

Regardless, I would like to see the Bills add at least one starter through the draft this year by investing a pick in the first couple rounds. If the Bills continue to draft at least one core offensive lineman each year, they will also stagger when they have to pay those guys which could be smart from a roster building standpoint. 

 

 

Kelly started 1986

Kelllys line was  Will Wilford, Jim Richter, Joe Devlin  Kent Hull & Ken Jones

- thats 2# 1's....2#2's...and Kent Hull a quality free agent from the USFL

- they later drafted John Fina in rd1 & Ruben Brown in rd1  as guys retired or left in free agency

Huge mistake by Ralph Wilson/Littman was not locking up Will Wolford  - in the middle of our run we got weaker at OT....killer

 

House Ballard was a special situation that we were able to draft him virtually a year early in rd 11 due to his eligibility  - he comes out the following yr he is a 3rd rd pick at latest

 

The point is  all thru Kelly era he had at least 2 1st rounders on the offensive line   - right now we have NONE....and most of our playoff drought was because we ignored the lines while drafting RB's and WRs  with no lines to block for them

 

 

[RocCityRoller]

always have to build inside out once the QB is set