If Zay pans out, McD's first two drafts are awesome

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

That's where I'm at. They've had some solid drafts and McDermott won close games last season. Some would call it luck, but I don't buy it. His teams made plays when they mattered in contested games. When is the last time the Bills won close games? Even this season, the most contested game was Tennessee and they found a way to win. Peterman did his thing against Houston, so chalk that one up to their inability to judge QB's, which is a very big deal.

 

They would have to improve significantly in terms of running the ball and acquiring offensive personnel, but the returns on that are awful thus far. 

 

 Keep in mind I'm convinced Allen is a bust so that tends to influence my opinions. It's an interesting proposition because I see it as an inevitable decision Pegula will have to make.

 

I think it’s far too early to be convinced of anything, but I started with my doubts. Regardless, he’s ours now so I’m all behind it until I know how it turns out. 

[Hebert19]

If Allen pans out we got a top 3 corner and a starting qb.  We can whine all we want about mahomes but that's a decent return as well. 

[Bing Bong]

38 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Harry is overrated IMO. I haven't seen him do much. I think so many people viewed him as a "Kyle clone" that their confirmation bias influences their assessment. I'm not impressed. Picking up Jordan Phillips looks like a great decision.

That's what I thought on my eye test but I'm horrible at judging front 7 players so I needed validation before talking out of my *** lol

15 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I think it’s far too early to be convinced of anything, but I started with my doubts. Regardless, he’s ours now so I’m all behind it until I know how it turns out. 

Chalk me up as very very nervous. Then again I thought Rosen was gonna be solid, still prefer his accuracy but you have no idea how annoyed I was the Browns were actually smart and Baker never fell for being "too short". If we chose Allen over Baker I'd have been on crusade watch 24/7.

 

I wanted swagger in my QB and Baker had it like no other. Rosen either has it or is just a super weird dude.. can't tell. But Darnold and Allen are vanilla ice cream. Not that any of that matters for a QB but that's literally all I'd go for since I saw the QB draft as a crapshoot.

Edited November 14, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[Augie]

34 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The 2017 draft is already a very good draft class regardless of how Zay pans out. White is a top 5 player at a critical position while Milano is already a borderline pro-bowl player, Dawkins is a high end player at a critical offensive position. Zay being a bust would prevent it from being a great draft class but if Zay panned out even as just a good slot receiver that class is a great draft class. 

 

The early returns on 2018 are good but mixed. Edumonds, Phillips and Johnson are 3 good young players on the defense all of whom look like they could be high end starters or even pro-bowl players on the defense. Teller could be a starting guard on the offense which would be another solid addition. Obviously you are right about Allen he is a big wildcard. 

 

But if (and this is a big IF) you in two drafts get two players on the offensive line, a good receiver, your franchise QB, two starting linebackers, a starting DT, and two corners that's building quite the foundation of your team. That's literally 4 starters on offense and 5 starters on defense in two drafts. That's the type of drafting that starts dynasties. Once again still a long way to go on a lot of these players and your most important piece is still a huge question mark. 

 

 

You just don’t hate enough for some people!  You’re gonna be in trouble!       ?

[dayman]

I mean, starting on the Bills isn't necessarily the greatest indicator but it could be worse.

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

That's what I thought on my eye test but I'm horrible at judging front 7 players so I needed validation before talking out of my *** lol

Chalk me up as very very nervous. Then again I thought Rosen was gonna be solid, still prefer his accuracy but you have no idea how annoyed I was the Browns were actually smart and Baker never fell for being "too short". If we chose Allen over Baker I'd have been on crusade watch 24/7.

 

I wanted swagger in my QB and Baker had it like no other. Rosen either has it or is just a super weird dude.. can't tell. But Darnold and Allen are vanilla ice cream. Not that any of that matters for a QB but that's literally all I'd go for since I saw the QB draft as a crapshoot.

100% agree on the swagger factor. It's a personal preference more than anything, but most of the greats have a certain swagger. Don't tell me Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady don't have swagger because they do. It's just more subtle. Even Brees has a certain understated swagger. P Manning was an anomaly. He was also kind of a choker. This is all completely subjective so it is what it is. Mayfield was the only guy in this draft that had the charisma I look for in a leader.

 

As far as Phillips, he's got 16 tackles, 4 TFL's, and zero sacks. That's not impressive considering his snap count and role. He's not terrible, but he doesn't deserve the praise he gets around here.

 

 

[Success]

I haven’t seen any of the rooks do the kind of hurdle that Allen did against the Vikings.

 

That’s the kind of swagger I enjoy seeing.

[John from Riverside]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

I haven’t seen any of the rooks do the kind of hurdle that Allen did against the Vikings.

 

That’s the kind of swagger I enjoy seeing.

That is also the kind of play that you lose your QB for the year.......I held my breath on that play

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Monty98 said:

 

Maybe it was looked at is Mahomes worth the extra first or not at this moment. I'll gladly take the extra first. I wasn't sold on Mahomes last year, not everyone was as he dropped to our pick. So did Watson, in the end Buffalo passed for an extra first plus Tre White, that extra first was converted into one of either Allen or Edmunds. If/when Allen pans out or looks good in the second season, will you be less upset with Tre and Allen?

 

As a 21 year old he's not even fully developed physically. There's a huge difference there between a fully grown man as a football player and a 21 year old still growing. The excitement is because he's raw and physically talented at 21 but has a ceiling that's crazy, maybe it's rough now but as he continues to grow it can be scary. Look at Amobi Okoye he was drafted crazy young too, as a young guy he was physically over matched, but later in his career he was a solid DT and played well.

 

He's as big as he is going to get, 21 or not. He's a fully grown man.

[SCBills]

Ok, let’s say Beane somehow could magically run the draft from Carolina and took Mahomes.. Does Mahomes come with KC’s OL, RB’s, WR’s and TE’s or are we assuming he’s still GOAT status throwing to KB and Charles Clay? 

[mannc]

10 hours ago, dubs said:

 

Disagree. He wasn’t generational at the time. In fact many observers thought the chiefs paid a steep price for a guy who was viewed as physically gifted but raw. Many people praised the Bills for the move down. 

 

The bottom line is that the FO was in flux and you can’t ask a brand new head coach with a lame duck GM and their lame duck college scouting to take a QB at 10. If they were picking at 1 and Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning we’re there, maybe you’d be correct. But not the situation in 2017. 

 

So if there is blame I’d put it on ownership who hired a coach first with a dead man walking GM and waited until after the draft to bring in the new GM. 

 

And just for good measure, here’s and article from April 2017 which gives a more balanced view of the kind of prospect Mahomes was in absence of 20/20 hindsight. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nfl/2017/4/17/15326962/2017-nfl-draft-quarterback-patrick-mahomes-stock-rising-texans-cardinals

Why aren’t we talking about Jacksonville (a franchise that has never had a qb) passing on Mahomes for Leonard Fournette?  Almost as bad as when they took a punter one slot ahead of Russell Wilson.

[Thurman#1]

8 hours ago, The_Dude said:

 

Or I’m telling you what I wrote when he was coming out. I knew it was obvious how good Mahomes was. McDermott didn’t. That’s concerning to me. Keep your head in the sand, guy. 

 

 

No offense, dude, but you didn't know.

 

Your educated guess/opinion turned out to be correct. But nobody knows for sure, ever. And if it had been all that obvious, Mahomes wouldn't have fallen so far.

 

You did well there. I had him as a maybe/maybe not, personally. Tables did not run away from me in fear of being pounded.

 

But as I've said to you before, you're saying McDermott didn't know. And a lot of that may be because the GM he was working with at the time, Doug Whaley, had been all in on the EJ Manuel pick. McDermott was in the driver's seat in that draft, but he was still relying on Whaley and Whaley's scouts. McDermott isn't a personnel guy and he's particularly not a personnel guy with much expertise on the offensive side of the ball.

 

And we don't even know what Whaley was saying. Maybe Whaley hated Mahomes. No way to know.

 

McDermott may well have been taking a very intelligent tack, saying, "I'm not an expert here, and by next year I should have a GM I can get along with in here. I know next year is a good year for QBs. Why don't I wait a year and work with a GM I trust and who is hopefully a lot better than me at picking QBs. We can collect a ton of draft capital this year and be ready to trade up and get one of the big group from next year."

 

That would make sense and be the opposite of concerning.

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

18 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

I know there are varying degrees of involvement by coach McD with each of the picks in the past two drafts, but now that Zay has somehow emerged as a good receiver our last two years we have

TreD

Zay

Dawk

Milano

 

Last year

Josh

Tremaine

Harry

Taron

Teller

 

Obviously Josh is the wildcard here, but currently this is 9 starters in two years through the draft.   Almost half of the 22 man starting team in two years, all under rookie deals.   I don't have time to look it up, but that's likely tops in the league, nine starters who are either rooks or sophomores.  There's a little Whaley influence, and Beane obviously, but if McD has been significantly involved in these past two drafts like they say he has, it's a very encouraging sign that we have a knack for identifying and developing the right kind of players here.

 

 

 

 

Already are awesome, I'm really expecting great things from them over the years. Look back at our drafts during the drought and it says all you need to know.

 

 

Next year will be , Jonah Williams, DK Metcalf, Chase Winovich and Isaac Nauta 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by Buffalo Barbarian

[The_Dude]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No offense, dude, but you didn't know.

 

 

No, I knew. 

 

How? Because when you watch Mahomes he can throw darts with pinpoint accuracy, off balance, and from multiple platforms. Meaning the dudes arm is so talented his footwork doesn’t matter and he can squeeze balls into double coverage that other guys can’t because of his accuracy. So he doesn’t have to be great at reading defense or footwork. Because he’s a better version of Favre. So I knew. 

[dgrochester55]

These drafts have been good, but fair or not, the perceived level of success will solely depend on how good Allen ends up being.

 

So far White, Edmunds and Milano appear to be for real.   Zay Jones is emerging, but I would like to see a few more games like sunday from him before calling him a success.  As far as the others that the OP listed(dawkins, teller, phillips), it remains to be seen if they are actually reliable long term starters or if it is a Keith Ellison type scenario where they are only starting early in their career because there are no other options.

[dubs]

37 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

No, I knew. 

 

How? Because when you watch Mahomes he can throw darts with pinpoint accuracy, off balance, and from multiple platforms. Meaning the dudes arm is so talented his footwork doesn’t matter and he can squeeze balls into double coverage that other guys can’t because of his accuracy. So he doesn’t have to be great at reading defense or footwork. Because he’s a better version of Favre. So I knew. 

 

You should send all your predraft posts from BBMB to NFL teams and get a job in the scouting departments or maybe even as a GM!  Because “you knew”!

 

 

[The_Dude]

6 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

You should send all your predraft posts from BBMB to NFL teams and get a job in the scouting departments or maybe even as a GM!  Because “you knew”!

 

 

 

I see that smartass comment ALLLLL the time. Thing is, any retard named “Polian” can get a job in the league. The NFL is run on nepotism, not talent. 

 

So yeah, I could get a job as an intern making nothing and leave my company that provides me a wonderful living. I could tell my kids it’s up to them to figure out how to eat now. I could do that. But there’s just a tiny bit of reality separating me from doing that. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by The_Dude

[teef]

48 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

No, I knew. 

 

How? Because when you watch Mahomes he can throw darts with pinpoint accuracy, off balance, and from multiple platforms. Meaning the dudes arm is so talented his footwork doesn’t matter and he can squeeze balls into double coverage that other guys can’t because of his accuracy. So he doesn’t have to be great at reading defense or footwork. Because he’s a better version of Favre. So I knew. 

no you didn't.  you thought blake bortles was going to storm the nfl and be the next great qb.  you were certain of it.  it's ok to be wrong on qbs, but please with this.  just move on.

[The_Dude]

3 minutes ago, teef said:

no you didn't.  you thought blake bortles was going to storm the nfl and be the next great qb.  you were certain of it.  it's ok to be wrong on qbs, but please with this.  just move on.

 

1. No, I will not move on. I love hated McDumbass since that awful night. 

 

2. Bortles was the closet thing to a miss I’ve ever committed. And how wrong was I? Did he not throw for over 300 the other day? Did he not get his team deep into the playoffs last year? Was he not the best QB in that class? Was I correct in wanting to move on from EJ before a lot of people were? 

 

I know good QBs when I see them. 

 

Im better at it than scouts, especially Bills scouts, and any person unfortunate enough to follow my ramblings over the years can’t deny that. 

 

Everybody brings up Bortles with me. But how wrong was I? 

Edited November 14, 2018 by The_Dude

[teef]

Just now, The_Dude said:

 

1. No. 

 

2. Bortles was the closet thing to a miss I’ve ever committed. And how wrong was I? Did he not throw for over 300 the other day? Did he not get his team deep into the playoffs last year? Was he not the best QB in that class? Was I correct in wanting to move on from EJ before a lot of people were? 

 

I know good QBs when I see them. 

 

Im better at it than scouts, especially Bills scouts, and any person unfortunate enough to follow my ramblings over the years can’t deny that. 

 

Everybody brings up Bortles with me. But how wrong was I? 

the way you propped him up, you were very wrong.  he has a good game or two, and you think he's solid?   do you think the jags feel they're good at the qb position?  at some point posters need to move on from mahomes.  continually bringing it up is just a sorry look.  even if you liked him, who cares?  he's on the chiefs, everyone has vented, be a big boy and move on already.  you're like a jilted girlfriend.