If Zay pans out, McD's first two drafts are awesome

[Success]

29 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

I like Tre even though I call him “Not Mahomes.”

 

Also, it concerns me that McDermott felt Allen was worth the 7th overall pick and Mahomes wasn’t worth the 10th. That’s very concerning. And if available evidence is to be investigated, McDermott has no clue what he’s doing at QB or how to evaluate them. 

Allen was #1 on some boards.  Mahomes NEVER was.

 

[The_Dude]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

Allen was #1 on some boards.  Mahomes NEVER was.

 

 

Why? Cause the talking heads on ESPN told ya so?

[Success]

10 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

Why? Cause the talking heads on ESPN told ya so?

Um, no.  Because Allen was #1 in some boards and Mahomes never was.

Edited November 14, 2018 by Success

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Exactly.   

 

When starting a lot of rookies, it's usually because you have no better players on the roster.

 

 

I remember when people briefly thought Trent Edwards was the next Tom Brady and the only question was whether the Marshawn Lynch/Paul Poz/Edwards draft was great or best ever!

 

When you have to play young players sometimes you make the mistake of grading on a curve..........the league is littered with guys like recently released Brown/Bill Nate Orchard who by necessity got more PT than they warranted as a rookie then couldn't ascend.     Brandon Spoon baby!

 

I loved the Allen pick and am far from giving up on him....... but so far.......he's been pretty terrible.

 

Edmunds........clearly a lot of talent........but he's been very suspect as a MLB.........he's been clearly the worst/most picked upon player on the defense most games and he gets a pass because of his age.........kind've a BS excuse given that he started a ton of games at VA Tech over 3 years.  

 

[dubs]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I know we are never going to agree on this

 

You keep downplaying Tre White.....who is frankly one of the very best cover corners in the NFL.....we COULD have drafted a guy that busts at that pick.....the team has certainly done enough of that in the past or finding guys that dont play up to their 1st round draft selection.

 

Then you conveniently leave out the 1st round pick which turned into Josh Allen.....

 

Then you keep saing generational QB.....in that QBs first starting year.   There have been plenty of QBs that started hot and flamed out....I am not saying Mahommes is going to do that or that I even want to do that because KC deserves some good fortune as well

 

What I am saying is if Josh Allen turns into our franchise QB.....then we did not lose this trade....for some damn reason your automatically calling it a loss right here right now which is extremely short sighted.

 

Have another drink on me

 

You can’t rationalize with Jeffismagic. And you can’t come back from “Generational Talent”. 

[The_Dude]

34 minutes ago, Success said:

Um, no.  Because Allen was #1 in some boards and Mahomes never was.

 

That’s phenomenal. I’m glad we’ve got a guy on the board who has access to all 32 teams boards. Terrific. 

[dubs]

1 hour ago, The_Dude said:

 

I like Tre even though I call him “Not Mahomes.”

 

Also, it concerns me that McDermott felt Allen was worth the 7th overall pick and Mahomes wasn’t worth the 10th. That’s very concerning. And if available evidence is to be investigated, McDermott has no clue what he’s doing at QB or how to evaluate them. 

 

How is Neverneverland?  

[Monty98]

1 hour ago, The_Dude said:

 

I like Tre even though I call him “Not Mahomes.”

 

Also, it concerns me that McDermott felt Allen was worth the 7th overall pick and Mahomes wasn’t worth the 10th. That’s very concerning. And if available evidence is to be investigated, McDermott has no clue what he’s doing at QB or how to evaluate them. 

 

Maybe it was looked at is Mahomes worth the extra first or not at this moment. I'll gladly take the extra first. I wasn't sold on Mahomes last year, not everyone was as he dropped to our pick. So did Watson, in the end Buffalo passed for an extra first plus Tre White, that extra first was converted into one of either Allen or Edmunds. If/when Allen pans out or looks good in the second season, will you be less upset with Tre and Allen?

16 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I remember when people briefly thought Trent Edwards was the next Tom Brady and the only question was whether the Marshawn Lynch/Paul Poz/Edwards draft was great or best ever!

 

When you have to play young players sometimes you make the mistake of grading on a curve..........the league is littered with guys like recently released Brown/Bill Nate Orchard who by necessity got more PT than they warranted as a rookie then couldn't ascend.     Brandon Spoon baby!

 

I loved the Allen pick and am far from giving up on him....... but so far.......he's been pretty terrible.

 

Edmunds........clearly a lot of talent........but he's been very suspect as a MLB.........he's been clearly the worst/most picked upon player on the defense most games and he gets a pass because of his age.........kind've a BS excuse given that he started a ton of games at VA Tech over 3 years.  

 

 

As a 21 year old he's not even fully developed physically. There's a huge difference there between a fully grown man as a football player and a 21 year old still growing. The excitement is because he's raw and physically talented at 21 but has a ceiling that's crazy, maybe it's rough now but as he continues to grow it can be scary. Look at Amobi Okoye he was drafted crazy young too, as a young guy he was physically over matched, but later in his career he was a solid DT and played well.

[Success]

9 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

That’s phenomenal. I’m glad we’ve got a guy on the board who has access to all 32 teams boards. Terrific. 

I’m glad we have the one guy who had Mahomes as a “generational talent.”

 

[The_Dude]

13 minutes ago, Success said:

I’m glad we have the one guy who had Mahomes as a “generational talent.”

 

 

Yeah. I was quite vocal about it on this board and some other Bills board that I got banned from from for something or another. But I said he was generational pre draft. 

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, Monty98 said:

 

As a 21 year old he's not even fully developed physically. There's a huge difference there between a fully grown man as a football player and a 21 year old still growing. The excitement is because he's raw and physically talented at 21 but has a ceiling that's crazy, maybe it's rough now but as he continues to grow it can be scary. Look at Amobi Okoye he was drafted crazy young too, as a young guy he was physically over matched, but later in his career he was a solid DT and played well.

 

Amobi Okoye is a prime example of what I am talking about wrt to assuming very young players will just naturally get better thereby meaning it's safe to grade them on an age related curve.

 

The high point of Amobi Okoye's career was his 20 year old rookie season where he had 5.5 sacks.

 

He was out of the league at 25.

 

One of the Bills numerous problems during the drought was continually drafting very young 20 year old players like Lynch, Whitner, Dareus and Watkins and putting them on a rudderless team and expecting them to figure it out.    The Bills have stronger leadership now so Edmunds is in better hands but all of those previous guys didn't last very long in Buffalo.

[The_Dude]

23 minutes ago, dubs said:

 

How is Neverneverland?  

 

Idk, man...better than sports in Buffalo I’m sure. 

[Success]

4 minutes ago, The_Dude said:

 

Yeah. I was quite vocal about it on this board and some other Bills board that I got banned from from for something or another. But I said he was generational pre draft. 

sure.

[LSHMEAB]

1 hour ago, Success said:

Allen was #1 on some boards.  Mahomes NEVER was.

 

What's your point?

 

Mahomes is better than Allen. Why can't we all just accept that and hope Allen becomes a solid QB?

9 hours ago, Soda Popinski said:

Thats true.   Maybe bringing in someone to help evaluate QBs would be the right move I don't know.    I see the foundation they have laid here and i just don't want it blown up because they missed on the QB position.    

We should consult with Jalen Ramsey next time we draft a QB.

7 hours ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Teller's one start makes him a keeper?

Teller was out there mauling people. I can't think of an offensive lineman having that kind of performance and ending up a dud.

 

I think he's legit, although it's obviously not set in stone or backed up by enough data.

[Bing Bong]

Great drafts. Crazy worried about Allen so peg me as cautiously optimistic I guess. Do we like Harry? I wasn't a fan some games but he's had some plays. He's a rookie after all. 

 

That Milano guy is something though. Him alone in the 5th makes these last 2 drafts great. He might be catching up to Hyde as my fave

Edited November 14, 2018 by PetermanThrew5Picks

[LSHMEAB]

9 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Based upon what we’ve seen so far, I hope this would be how the Bills handle it. IF Allen doesn’t pan out, I’d give these guys at least one more shot at finding the right guy. 

 

 

Even under the best circumstances, picking a QB is a crap shoot. 

 

I think you'd have to factor in the other draft picks when deciding whether or not you give them another shot at a QB if Allen sucks.

 

Edmunds would need to develop into a star MLB and Jones would have to be a quality number 2. If those things happen and they hit on a first round receiver in 19, you'd have to consider giving them a mulligan.

1 minute ago, PetermanThrew5Picks said:

Great drafts. Crazy worried about Allen so peg me as cautiously optimistic I guess. Do we like Harry? I wasn't a fan some games but he's had some plays. He's a rookie after all. 

 

That Milano guy is something though. Him alone in the 5th makes these last 2 drafts great. He might be catching up to Hyde as my fave

Harry is overrated IMO. I haven't seen him do much. I think so many people viewed him as a "Kyle clone" that their confirmation bias influences their assessment. I'm not impressed. Picking up Jordan Phillips looks like a great decision.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I think you'd have to factor in the other draft picks when deciding whether or not you give them another shot at a QB if Allen sucks.

 

Edmunds would need to develop into a star MLB and Jones would have to be a quality number 2. If those things happen and they hit on a first round receiver in 19, you'd have to consider giving them a mulligan.

 

I was heavy on the “Based upon what we’ve seen so far”.  If it all goes to hell, I change my position, but based on what we’ve seen, I’m very encouraged. 

[billsfan89]

9 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said:

I find it very doubtful he'll ever be a legit number 1 but I think he is a legit #2 right now.  He dropped a lot of passes last year but he ain't anymore.  He gets open a lot and he has been very consistent for as bad as the offense has been around him.  I was hugely down on Zay when the season started and thought he was likely a bust but I was wrong.  Stick him in a good offense where there is a true number one on the other side and he will look great. 

 

Zay is slowly proving he is worthy of a WR3 or WR2 spot. But the jury is still out as to how high his impact will be. I think the team still needs two receivers either high in the draft or via higher end free agency. But I do think that Zay should at least enter into the season as the WR3 unless he completely disappears the rest of the way in which case I would have him occupy the WR4 spot and make him compete for a top 3 WR spot. 

[LSHMEAB]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I was heavy on the “Based upon what we’ve seen so far”.  If it all goes to hell, I change my position, but based on what we’ve seen, I’m very encouraged. 

That's where I'm at. They've had some solid drafts and McDermott won close games last season. Some would call it luck, but I don't buy it. His teams made plays when they mattered in contested games. When is the last time the Bills won close games? Even this season, the most contested game was Tennessee and they found a way to win. Peterman did his thing against Houston, so chalk that one up to their inability to judge QB's, which is a very big deal.

 

They would have to improve significantly in terms of running the ball and acquiring offensive personnel, but the returns on that are awful thus far. 

 

Keep in mind I'm convinced Allen is a bust so that tends to influence my opinions. It's an interesting proposition because I see it as an inevitable decision Pegula will have to make.

[billsfan89]

10 hours ago, Da webster guy said:

I know there are varying degrees of involvement by coach McD with each of the picks in the past two drafts, but now that Zay has somehow emerged as a good receiver our last two years we have

TreD

Zay

Dawk

Milano

 

Last year

Josh

Tremaine

Harry

Taron

Teller

 

Obviously Josh is the wildcard here, but currently this is 9 starters in two years through the draft.   Almost half of the 22 man starting team in two years, all under rookie deals.   I don't have time to look it up, but that's likely tops in the league, nine starters who are either rooks or sophomores.  There's a little Whaley influence, and Beane obviously, but if McD has been significantly involved in these past two drafts like they say he has, it's a very encouraging sign that we have a knack for identifying and developing the right kind of players here.

 

 

 

 

The 2017 draft is already a very good draft class regardless of how Zay pans out. White is a top 5 player at a critical position while Milano is already a borderline pro-bowl player, Dawkins is a high end player at a critical offensive position. Zay being a bust would prevent it from being a great draft class but if Zay panned out even as just a good slot receiver that class is a great draft class. 

 

The early returns on 2018 are good but mixed. Edumonds, Phillips and Johnson are 3 good young players on the defense all of whom look like they could be high end starters or even pro-bowl players on the defense. Teller could be a starting guard on the offense which would be another solid addition. Obviously you are right about Allen he is a big wildcard. 

 

But if (and this is a big IF) you in two drafts get two players on the offensive line, a good receiver, your franchise QB, two starting linebackers, a starting DT, and two corners that's building quite the foundation of your team. That's literally 4 starters on offense and 5 starters on defense in two drafts. That's the type of drafting that starts dynasties. Once again still a long way to go on a lot of these players and your most important piece is still a huge question mark. 

Edited November 14, 2018 by billsfan89