Jerome007 Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Soda Popinski said: It will be very interesting to see what they do with 10 picks, and 80 mil in cap space. With Allen, this will make or break the Bills for the next 5 years. Huge. Of course 2020 looks promising too but if they miss the mark badly in 2019 they should not get a chance to mess up 2020! Otherwise we could be looking at a return to greatness. At last!!!
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Jauronimo said: If Allen pans out the drafts were awesome. If he doesn't they're not looking so hot. Why the number of first round QB's who flame out is probably the highest position on the field. I recall seeing a chart back around Sept or so, was around 30% of 1st round QB's become very good to elite. Another 30% were so-so, but hang around for a number of years.
Jauronimo Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 Just now, jletha said: Weird I remember Aaron Williams being a disaster his rookie year, he only got good when we moved him to safety in his second year. Also: Zay Dion and Teller are all mediocre to serviceable. The quality players are all on one side of the ball. If McBeane can have the same kind of success drafting offensive players then we could be in business. A lot of it will be on Josh's shoulders. His second year was the disaster. He took a jump his third year after he got moved to safety.
Soda Popinski Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Jerome007 said: With Allen, this will make or break the Bills for the next 5 years. Huge. Of course 2020 looks promising too but if they miss the mark badly in 2019 they should not get a chance to mess up 2020! Otherwise we could be looking at a return to greatness. At last!!! 2020 looks promising because they have hit on so many draft picks. If they keep hitting on them, but Allen does no pan out I would not throw out the baby with the bath water. I would give Allen both 2019 and 2020 and if he can't get it done I'd draft a QB in 2021 and try again.
dubs Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jerome007 said: Mahomes was the 10th pick. Should all 9 GMs that passed him up be fired too? The GM wasn’t in place. Mahomes was not a consensus, clear cut obvious pick. In retrospect it would have been awesome to have taken him there, but I don’t think that’s on McDermott at all. You can’t take a swing at a first round QB without a GM in place and working with an outgoing GMs staff and research. Can’t do it. 23 minutes ago, Warcodered said: Just as the all knowing dubs predicted. Ha. Surprised it took that long to come out thought.
RyanC883 Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Juju already panned out Same with Watson and the MVP front runner. Allen is gonna need to show up strong Juju has: (a) Big Ben throwing the ball; (b) Antonio Brown opposite him; (c) a stellar running game. If Juju were here, he'd look like Zay, perhaps worse.
CaptnCoke11 Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Gordio said: People tend to forget Moulds was pretty much a non factor until year three. I think Zay will become a solid receiver. You don't catch that many balls in college by accident. There have been lots of receivers who tore up college and done squat in the pros. Jury is still out of Jones Edited November 13, 2018 by CaptnCoke11
Jerome007 Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, dubs said: The GM wasn’t in place. Mahomes was not a consensus, clear cut obvious pick. In retrospect it would have been awesome to have taken him there, but I don’t think that’s on McDermott at all. You can’t take a swing at a first round QB without a GM in place and working with an outgoing GMs staff and research. Can’t do it. Oh I agree. Just sick of the people that can only play the blame & fire game.
John from Riverside Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 2 hours ago, K-GunJimKelly12 said: I think it is safe to say the Zay has panned out. Yeah I need to see more to say that......not that he is not playing great....just need to see consistancy
RobbRiddick Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 While the fact we have a lot of starters isn't a big thing in itself (bad teams are more likely to let their picks start because they have less competition) I do agree there are some good looking players in there. So far the defensive guys are more impressive, hopefully they can hit it out of the park on the offense in the next draft. What I do REALLY like is finding guys in later rounds like Milano and, fingers crossed, Teller. It makes the lesser rounds a lot more fun when you have faith that your front office can find diamonds in the rough. It also gives me hope that they might be able to turn the offense around more quickly than it might otherwise take
Matt_In_NH Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 I think last week we saw what zay can be. He has not been dropping balls like last year and when thrown to in rhythm he can be a good possession guy. Starting to have some optimism with him. The reality is it all comes down to Allen. With the other hits in the drafts. it all rests on Allen. Zay won’t really move the needle much. If Allen busts it won’t matter what zay does. If Allen turns out great it won’t matter what zay does.
BillsFan1988 Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 2 hours ago, The_Dude said: Hows about no. Passing on Mahomes makes his first draft awful any way you slice it. Also Juju Galladay Kupp Hunt Kamara Kittle Cohen Other then Milano we missed out on some studs. 1
Da webster guy Posted November 13, 2018 Author Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, ngbills said: Here is the thing with bad teams. It easier to start lesser quality players you drafted. You could start 20 draft picks from the past two years and that does not mean the draft was a home run. It they are showing it on the field immediately maybe. Or after a few years legit players. This has been a debate forever - the current coaches always start their draft picks and then we say how good they drafted. Then after a few years the guys are not better and no longer starting. Rinse and repeat. Not saying the drafts are bad. Just that the logic of using if they start is faulty. We were in the playoffs last year. Not an elite team obviously, but better than average. Every team has holes, and they draft to fill their weaknesses and you're right they can be partial to the players they picked, but our current nine starters all seem legit to me. We've had some players do better than we had planned in Milano, Shaq, even Lorax, and that's helping, but outside of Allen i can't see any of these guys not being good players for us in the years ahead.
The_Dude Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Warcodered said: Just as the all knowing dubs predicted. ...because when ya need a QB and you pass on a generational talent at QB, that's something people are gonna remember. And remembering the folly of the move isn't petty. It's a fair criticism.
Da webster guy Posted November 13, 2018 Author Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Dadonkadonk said: Wow the leaps people can make. Zay had an ok game. Teller has one start. Dawkins is a starter but certainly not elite LT. Edmunds has not played great but is so raw. Harrison has not played many snaps but DT is so hard to transition from college to pros. Just to be clear even people like myself that have criticized Zay never said they couldn't improve. As others have said it is all on Allen. If he is a franchise QB no one will care how much they gave up. Same for Edmunds. Zay had an OK game? He had 8 catches and no drops, got open all day. Quickness, leverage, looking the ball in. I'm assuming you didn't rewatch the game. There were only two WR's in the entire league (Cooks and Edelman) that had more grabs. And they had franchise qb's throwing them the ball. Don't get too old and cynical, the kid had a great game. It ok to say it. We love you.
dubs Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Jerome007 said: Oh I agree. Just sick of the people that can only play the blame & fire game. Oh. I agree with you. I meant to be backing up your point. Sorry it was not very clearly written. We agree!
2003Contenders Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said: Why the number of first round QB's who flame out is probably the highest position on the field. I recall seeing a chart back around Sept or so, was around 30% of 1st round QB's become very good to elite. Another 30% were so-so, but hang around for a number of years. Bill Parcells used to speak of a 3-year assessment for top rookie QBs. Emphasis is on "top", meaning that the QB was acquired by the team with the thought/hope that he could become a franchise QB. Year 1: They are rookies. Understand that and be patient with them. Year 2: There is usually still much to learn -- but there should be SIGNIFICANT improvement over Year 1. Year 3: This is the decision year. By Year 3, the QB should be trusted as the face of the franchise and able to carry the offense if need be. If that happens, you are set. If it doesn't, then you acquire a different QB in Year 4. The caveat is that, along the way, if there is regression or the player clearly exhibits issues that the scouts missed, you cut ties with them even sooner.
dubs Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 22 minutes ago, The_Dude said: ...because when ya need a QB and you pass on a generational talent at QB, that's something people are gonna remember. And remembering the folly of the move isn't petty. It's a fair criticism. It’s really not. You’re using hindsight 20/20 and not really understanding the FO situation at the time. You could reasonably blame ownership for creating that situation, but not the head coach.
The_Dude Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 Just now, dubs said: It’s really not. You’re using hindsight 20/20 and not really understanding the FO situation at the time. You could reasonably blame ownership for creating that situation, but not the head coach. No, I’m not using hindsight. We had an awful QB situation, we had a generational talent fall to us, and the man that thought Nate Peterman is NFL caliber passed on Mahomes for an extra first and a cover 2 CB. That’s stupid. That’s a stupid move. It’s fair to criticize.
dubs Posted November 13, 2018 Posted November 13, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, The_Dude said: No, I’m not using hindsight. We had an awful QB situation, we had a generational talent fall to us, and the man that thought Nate Peterman is NFL caliber passed on Mahomes for an extra first and a cover 2 CB. That’s stupid. That’s a stupid move. It’s fair to criticize. Disagree. He wasn’t generational at the time. In fact many observers thought the chiefs paid a steep price for a guy who was viewed as physically gifted but raw. Many people praised the Bills for the move down. The bottom line is that the FO was in flux and you can’t ask a brand new head coach with a lame duck GM and their lame duck college scouting to take a QB at 10. If they were picking at 1 and Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning we’re there, maybe you’d be correct. But not the situation in 2017. So if there is blame I’d put it on ownership who hired a coach first with a dead man walking GM and waited until after the draft to bring in the new GM. And just for good measure, here’s and article from April 2017 which gives a more balanced view of the kind of prospect Mahomes was in absence of 20/20 hindsight. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/nfl/2017/4/17/15326962/2017-nfl-draft-quarterback-patrick-mahomes-stock-rising-texans-cardinals Edited November 13, 2018 by dubs
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