wiskibreth Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: I’m starting to like Zay. I think he might have been the byproduct of terrible qb play and with a competent signal caller, might actually be decent. I really hope Barkley plays again the 2nd season switch just flicked ON for Zay.
klos63 Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: I think he had a 5 td day for the Bears he had a 5 INT game for the Bears, his best was 3 TD's.
HappyDays Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, JohnC said: McDermott added speed to today's roster and it made a difference. Foster and the new player from Denver were factors because of their speed. Yep Foster looked like a real NFL receiver and McKenzie is a find. The modern NFL offense is built on speed. You can't just mug receivers in the open field anymore. 10 years ago Tyreek Hill would have never made it through a full season. Now defenders can't touch him until the ball is in his hands and by then it's too late. But you still need the QB to take advantage of that and Barkley did. 1
Real McClappy Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, wiskibreth said: the 2nd season switch just flicked ON for Zay. He's been playing this way all year. We just finally found a QB who would actually target him 10+ times for once to make a real impact. 19 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: I was wondering what his towel said! That is awesome My bad actually said Pancho Power. Even better! Edited November 12, 2018 by Real McCoy
wiskibreth Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Real McCoy said: He's been playing this way all year. We just finally found a QB who would actually target him 10 times for once to make a real impact. My bad actually said Pancho Power. Even better! Serious confidence builder today for Zay. and Pancho is our man here in big D. We love him! He needs help https://www.gofundme.com/pancho-power 1
Kelly the Dog Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 38 minutes ago, HappyDays said: On the other hand he threw a perfect TD pass to Kelvin Benjamin that was dropped, and the o-line looked good in part because he made good quick decisions with the ball. The fumble TD to Zay was a gift because he made a good read. How many times have we seen wide open receivers that the QB just didn't see? I get your point, for once our offensive cast helped the QB, but he wasn't playing with anyone special. Benjamin was still useless, Zay has played like that all year, and honestly I don't think the pass blocking was much better than it has been all year long. The run game opened up because our pass game was sustaining drives. Barkley had a ton to do with our 41 points today. I think fans are selling him short especially considering he's been here 11 days. I'm not sure how much you have watched him in his career. He's very capable of good games. He has a BAD arm, which is why he was drafted in round four and has been released by five different teams. He showed it today. He should have had a couple picks. He threw about three extremely weak out patterns which was what killed Nate. He's just like Nate only slightly smarter and slightly better arm. But this has been his history. He's not even a good backup. At all. Before today he has a 63 passer rating, 8-18 TD/INT. And that is with a few 300 yard games and games like today. I LOVED watching the game today. It was awesome. He played great under the circumstances. But he has no oomph in his passes so he is doomed to failure. If he had a better arm he would have been a #1 pick and likely a good to great starter in this league. But it's terribly weak for this league. You could see it on about 10 different passes today. 45 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: The one TD pass to Zay that Zay caught was slick. Very tight window. Great pass. That is one he can make with the best of them in the league because it's only ten yards.
davefan66 Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 1 hour ago, longtimebillsfan said: This raises the question, does Barkley remain the starter and we go back to our original plan to let Allen learn from the sidelines the rest of this year? Or do we start Allen after the bye week? Good question. Allen has played well at times, enough that I’d let him play once he is fully healthy. He can learn watching, but nothing beats learning while on the field. I believe the kid is mentally tough enough that he won’t be negatively impacted by poor outcomes. As long as he isn’t seriously injured, which can happen at any time....for example, like walking onto a training camp practice field. 1
JohnC Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 24 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: I'm not sure how much you have watched him in his career. He's very capable of good games. He has a BAD arm, which is why he was drafted in round four and has been released by five different teams. He showed it today. He should have had a couple picks. He threw about three extremely weak out patterns which was what killed Nate. He's just like Nate only slightly smarter and slightly better arm. But this has been his history. He's not even a good backup. At all. Before today he has a 63 passer rating, 8-18 TD/INT. And that is with a few 300 yard games and games like today. I LOVED watching the game today. It was awesome. He played great under the circumstances. But he has no oomph in his passes so he is doomed to failure. If he had a better arm he would have been a #1 pick and likely a good to great starter in this league. But it's terribly weak for this league. You could see it on about 10 different passes today. Great pass. That is one he can make with the best of them in the league because it's only ten yards. I'm not going to get carried away with Barkley's good game today. As you have pointed out he has a fatal flaw of not having adequate arm strength that would allow him to be a starter in this league. In my mind he's essentially a backup qb with backup traits of being canny but not having a strong enough arm to start. But what he demonstrated in this game is that this team can reasonably compete when it has competent qb play. That's exactly what happened in this game. Because he was able to make reads and quickly know where to go with the ball he put the OL and receivers in a position to succeed. There is no dispute that Josh Allen is going to be our starter. But if Barkley can hold the fort for the short term as a starter or as a backup and give Allen more time to prepare then he will be serving a useful purpose. Is it better for Barkley to continue on as the starter or is it better for Allen to take over the reigns as a starter? I'm not sure. So whatever decision that McDermott makes on how to best handle Allen and his development is fine with me. What most of us can agree on is that the qb issue centers around Allen.
r henderson Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 Good game by Matt today, but this season is about developing Josh Allen (when healthy). Maybe are offensive talent (except KB) is not as bad as we think. Nice to be on the other end of a blowout though.
The Frankish Reich Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 1 hour ago, wiskibreth said: the 2nd season switch just flicked ON for Zay. Maybe it was that psychedelic experience. Running around naked is underrated as a life changing event. This guy would agree: https://www.vox.com/first-person/2018/2/19/16739386/ayahuasca-retreat-psychedelic-hallucination-meditation 11 minutes ago, JohnC said: I'm not going to get carried away with Barkley's good game today. As you have pointed out he has a fatal flaw of not having adequate arm strength that would allow him to be a starter in this league. In my mind he's essentially a backup qb with backup traits of being canny but not having a strong enough arm to start. But what he demonstrated in this game is that this team can reasonably compete when it has competent qb play. That's exactly what happened in this game. Because he was able to make reads and quickly know where to go with the ball he put the OL and receivers in a position to succeed. There is no dispute that Josh Allen is going to be our starter. But if Barkley can hold the fort for the short term as a starter or as a backup and give Allen more time to prepare then he will be serving a useful purpose. Is it better for Barkley to continue on as the starter or is it better for Allen to take over the reigns as a starter? I'm not sure. So whatever decision that McDermott makes on how to best handle Allen and his development is fine with me. What most of us can agree on is that the qb issue centers around Allen. Fitzy 2.0! I'll take that. In the short term, that is.
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted November 12, 2018 Author Posted November 12, 2018 Where did he show today that his arm strength was a fatal flaw? Looked like he threw a catchable ball and actually gave his WRs chances. No turnovers, threaded the needle on a TD pass. He also converted 50% of 3rd Downs and scored more points today then we have in the last month combined. I didn’t see any issues with arm strength today. I guess because people keep saying it, it must be true. Having a rocket arm only gets you so far. Playing qb is more about the strength between your ears then the strength of your shoulder
Kelly the Dog Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Maybe it was that psychedelic experience. Running around naked is underrated as a life changing event. This guy would agree: https://www.vox.com/first-person/2018/2/19/16739386/ayahuasca-retreat-psychedelic-hallucination-meditation Fitzy 2.0! I'll take that. In the short term, that is. Fitz has a substantially stronger arm than Barkley. Fitz "can make all the throws." Matt cannot. That doesn't mean Fitz has a strong arm or good arm, he doesn't. But it's adequate. Barkley's isn't. Edited November 12, 2018 by Kelly the Dog
wppete Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 Barkley was impressive, he played with confidence.
JohnC Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 7 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: Where did he show today that his arm strength was a fatal flaw? Looked like he threw a catchable ball and actually gave his WRs chances. No turnovers, threaded the needle on a TD pass. He also converted 50% of 3rd Downs and scored more points today then we have in the last month combined. I didn’t see any issues with arm strength today. I guess because people keep saying it, it must be true. Having a rocket arm only gets you so far. Playing qb is more about the strength between your ears then the strength of your shoulder Why do you think he was a fourth round draft pick? Why do you think he has already been on half a dozen teams in his young career? Why do you think that he was out of the league when we called him? It certainly wasn't because of his impressive arm strength. It's true you don't have to have a rocket arm to be a starter in this league. On the other hand you do have to have a starter's arm to be a starter in this league. He has been a vagabond qb because he simply doesn't possess that caliber of arm.
billspro Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: He stepped up in the pocket and zipped it between 5 defenders as Zay was breaking open. Maybe he just happened to play the game of his life but that isn't just a backup QB throw. That is arguably the best throw a Bills QB has made this season. He has at least earned the right to be our backup QB next year. Played great today. 1
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted November 12, 2018 Author Posted November 12, 2018 1 minute ago, JohnC said: Why do you think he was a fourth round draft pick? Why do you think he has already been on half a dozen teams in his young career? Why do you think that he was out of the league when we called him? It certainly wasn't because of his impressive arm strength. It's true you don't have to have a rocket arm to be a starter in this league. On the other hand you do have to have a starter's arm to be a starter in this league. He has been a vagabond qb because he simply doesn't possess that caliber of arm. Because he had a down year in his SR year and was injured late. Do you not agree that had he come out in his JR year he would be a top 10-15 pick? His arm was fine when that was being discussed
Kelly the Dog Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 12 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: Where did he show today that his arm strength was a fatal flaw? Looked like he threw a catchable ball and actually gave his WRs chances. No turnovers, threaded the needle on a TD pass. He also converted 50% of 3rd Downs and scored more points today then we have in the last month combined. I didn’t see any issues with arm strength today. I guess because people keep saying it, it must be true. Having a rocket arm only gets you so far. Playing qb is more about the strength between your ears then the strength of your shoulder Because he cannot throw a deep out pattern. He cannot get it over the middle 20 yards down the field unless the WR is wide open. He threw a BUNCH of very weak passes today, and he was very lucky none of them were INTs. But that's who he is. Do you really think a guy who was from the school he was, with his college record, who was drafted in the fourth round and then cut by five teams and has a 63 passer rating for his career is suddenly good and has a good arm? This is who he is. He is smart and throws lob passes.
billspro Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 20 minutes ago, r henderson said: Good game by Matt today, but this season is about developing Josh Allen (when healthy). Maybe are offensive talent (except KB) is not as bad as we think. Nice to be on the other end of a blowout though. This is true, we also need to find a competent back up and Barkley may be the guy. He really impressed me when we played him in the preseason and he impressed me today. This is coming from a guy that did not want to draft him. He has developed at lot since his rookie year though.
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted November 12, 2018 Author Posted November 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: Because he cannot throw a deep out pattern. He cannot get it over the middle 20 yards down the field unless the WR is wide open. He threw a BUNCH of very weak passes today, and he was very lucky none of them were INTs. But that's who he is. Do you really think a guy who was from the school he was, with his college record, who was drafted in the fourth round and then cut by five teams and has a 63 passer rating for his career is suddenly good and has a good arm? This is who he is. He is smart and throws lob passes. I didn’t say he has a good arm. I just don’t think it’s a huge problem. I think it’s fine.
The Frankish Reich Posted November 12, 2018 Posted November 12, 2018 Just now, Brianmoorman4jesus said: Because he had a down year in his SR year and was injured late. Do you not agree that had he come out in his JR year he would be a top 10-15 pick? His arm was fine when that was being discussed He clearly would've been a top 10 pick if he'd come out after his junior year. Look, I'll admit it: I wanted us to take him instead of EJ (although NOT in the 1st round.) So far, EJ's had the much better career, if only because Barkley hasn't done much of anything. But Barkley was a very good college QB, much better than Manuel ever was, and I believe he could be adequate as a stopgap/bridge starter for someone ... and that he is fully capable of going all Ryan Fitzpatrick for us over a 4 or 5 game stretch. 8 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Fitz has a substantially stronger arm than Barkley. Fitz "can make all the throws." Matt cannot. That doesn't mean Fitz has a strong arm or good arm, he doesn't. But it's adequate. Barkley's isn't. I don't know what you base this on. Barkley didn't throw at the combine, and the consensus was along the lines of "doesn't have a plus arm." In other words, kind of in that Ryan Nassib category in his draft class, or Kevin Hogan (AJ McCarron?) in other classes. Some of these guys succeed in the NFL, either as solid backups or as starters for a number of years.
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